[DazedNconfussed]

Hey...so me and my brother were talking the other night and we got to talking about G13 somehow and he told me you cant get real G13 and that this strain was created by the goverment and there is no way the strain ever got out to growers.

I noticed some seed farmers on here offer g13 seeds and G13 X's. Is this really G13? Is G13 anything special or is it only a myth its was used by the CIS or whatever?

[Texas Kid]

G13 History
The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans. A couple of the plants intro'd early into both programs brought a near fatal vunerabilty to grey mold. Both programs had to backtrack while new afgans were found to replace the culled plants, as well as beginig an extensive tourure testing program for the remaning stock. Sandy had a group of friends, growers who lived in his area (S.Ark-N Miss) One of these friends was a grower, and first year botany student who had, by shear accident, landed a job working with Carlton Turner , who ran the US gov. pot program @ U of Miss. Sandy's friends job? using the early,rather primitive tests they had at the time to test Afganica plants for THC level! As Sandy's Early Girl program in the MW and the Skunk#1 people in Cali were on a desperate search for Afganicas. Sandy enlisted his friend to send him anything "interesting". Sandy's friend sent him 23 plants in all, and to differetiate these from his regular Afgani stock, which he labeled A1, A2 etc., Sandy designated his "government" plants G1-23. None of these were used in any Sacred Seeds breeding program. Sandy saved only a very few of these G clones, among these was G-13. He was to busy and never had a chance to do anything with it, so it stayed on the shelf. But he saved it knowing it was a special plant, a "sport". In its pure form it was apparently not very pleasant smoke, tasting like lawn clippings, soaked in a mixture of urine and feces (fecal flavors are common in pure afganicas) with a lovelly aftertaste of burning tires. The shear power could not be denied however and that's what made the strain's rep. As I sayed, G-13 was a breeders plant, (see MJ Botony p70) for a description of a sport but basically it's a plant that shows benificial mutations which can be passed down to the next gen. In the case of G-13 it was a scraglly plant with lowish yields, but it had the desirable trait of massive resin production. So much so, that if you let it go to long it could supposedly choke itself. Some sativas can do this, what Shanti calls the "Widow" sport is an example, but it's very rare in an indica. It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden. Nevil returned to Holland and made three crosses with G-13 @ the Seed Bank. G-13x Haze (in catolog only 1 yr, discontinued, no extent P1's) G-13x Hashplant (discontinued, currently Sensi Seeds: mr nice) G-13x Skunk#1 (last and, according to Nevil, the best of the G crosses. Nev gave Shanti the last of this stock. Shanti, after suffering alarmingly low germ rates initially from the 20 year old seeds, put them though a number of breeding cycles and you all lucky bastarts are beta testing the results.) Sandy Wienstein passed away in 1987. If you have the '88 edition of Mel's Indoor Guide, then you have Mel's wonderfull euligy to his friend.(Mel was part of the upstate NY group, which was a sattelitte of Sandy's midwest group. Mel and Co. were not breeders but the ran beta grows for Sandy's Early Girl proj. Just look pic's captioned Durban poison x Afgani in upstate NY from any of mel's books.) For those who don't have this vintage edition, just turn your copy of Mel's Deluxe MJ grow guide to the back cover. The guy in the red pendelton shirt and the long hair and shades, Thats Sandy. You owe him more than you know P.S. No more than a few weeks after Sandy's death in 1987, all of Nevil's G-13 cuttings went down, including safety clones he had kept in remote places. The plants just wilted and died, despite the best efforts made to save them. No cause was ever found As for the f2s well they cant be f2s mate becouse if you or eny one researchet things ( just stateing facts nothing personal clips as your a good guy and you know i respect you) people whould know that the last ever x of the G13 clone Nevile had ( the only g13 clone in the industry at that ) the g13/sk seeds shanti was given were f1s as they came from Nevile who used the sk male over the G13 clone before it was lost ( Sed to be the best X useing the G13 of all neviles g13 hybreeds as it exprest itself best in this x sed by nevile )so that makes what ever people are makeing and passing around far from f2s and with out knowing what to select for there takeing the line further from what it should be so maybe why there getting more sativa phinos in there generations wich are not f2s mate .
I am only talking for my self here i would never speek for shanti and as i do research things and its all there for people to work out also for them selfs if they wont to mate but im thinking few did becouse if people did they would know shanti selected us the testers to give an honest report be it good or bad on the test strains and as a collective type group help each other and shanti with these strains like they do with flowers like rose clubs or even people working together to save old wold fruiet and veggys who are scated around the world yet work together as a collective group. jesse turner still shared cuts with others[canadian,univerity of washington,ohio and cple others] but there is only one g13 and nevil owns it .now the chance to be assosiated with others on the net very slim and doubtfull with the info nom has posted clears alot up .before ya speak read and investigate i put plenty of information up in breeding forum on the closed post to support what ive said. Nom de fleur my sentiments are the same as muggles as 20 plus years here growing and im a 3rd generational my family has been in growing since before the 40's .i cant wait to enjoy and try shanti's and nevils good works till then enjoy and ill chat ya later clips more info to be considered canada's conection to miss research Did you have a relationship with Dr. Carlton Turner?s research group at the University of Mississippi?
Indeed we had cordial relationships with Dr. Turner and the Mississippi group for many years, exchanging information and keeping each other abreast of developments. As you know, after his work on Cannabis Dr. Turner went on to occupy the prestigious position of Domestic Policy Advisor to the president of the US. We used a Mexican strain supplied by Dr. Turner to grow a large supply of standardized medicinal marihuana in Ottawa for Canadian use. Climatic conditions in Mississippi and Canada are of course different - a longer, hotter, drier situation in Mississippi, and this resulted in the plants in Mississippi tending to be taller, with much more leaf fall, leaving the remaining younger leaves with higher THC content on the plants. Nevertheless, morphological and chemical characteristics tended to be comparable between the two Who directed that the



All the players here are real but most of this story has been rebuffed by the people that were actually there..but it is a good read..

Tex

[easypleasie]

Very informative post, TK! You can't get a more detailed answer than that

[7rayos]

Very interesting re-re-re-read, it added a few micras to my data, Señor Tex. I used to search for it in the idler past, but by the time i saw Lee Harvey Oswald involved, kinda gave up, i'm not that fond of science fiction. OK, so the govt made it, then plebeians bettered it. If it's only a clone (and a dead clone, at it) cannot understand how the government benefits from it. They can send a secret agent to score an ounce anytime. Still, I hope before i'm 80 Oprah's still alive and brings Scott to the program, that would reach some new audiences.

[DazedNconfussed]

Thanks TXkid....i haven read i yet, but will later....I'm sure my brother will find this interesting also....

[MadBuddhaAbuser]

rebuff [rɪˈbʌf]
vb (tr)
1. to snub, reject, or refuse (a person offering help or sympathy, an offer of help, etc.) abruptly or out of hand
2. to beat back (an attack); repel
n
1. a blunt refusal or rejection; snub
2. any sudden check to progress or action

[Eggman]

I like thousands of others I`m sure have seen 20 page threads about this and it allways gets ugly.
What Texas Kid wrote above sounds to me like he has indeed done reasearch and I thank him for his post.
I have not ever posted in one of these G13 threads and I know that there are lots of people out here who say they know the "real" story.
I know that we probably will never have definate proof but it sure makes for interesting reading.
Thanks again TK.
Eggman

[7rayos]

True or not, it always makes good read, i have participated in other "true" g13 threads and never found a reason to be angry. This one from TK is one of the best, speaks of data i didn't know, but as he himself puts it All the players here are real but most of this story has been rebuffed by the people that were actually there...
Now, the origins. Summing up a story and making it, even if the data is precise, are two different matters. If a person who was involved happened to be a uni guy who liked grass, then "Billy had a good clone" becomes "A man called Mr William X, who was at the time doing research in the University of Alabama".
Most of the g13's hype is just good writing. That said, i've grown some G13 crosses (HP, Widow, LP1, prolly some others) and always with good results, and that is what makes G13 desirable for me. As for the lyrical part, i like reading, i'd buy tomorrow a book on "The real G13", despite knowing beforehand it would had nothing in common with the real G13.
Also, the story about the development of that G13, and the way Neville's cleverly keeps for himself one or two "crucial facts", that'd make good reading too. But nothing that can be said is gonna increase the quality of the admittedly extinct clone. What i mean is maybe Airborne G13 is not related, but still is the ABG13 and none other than itself, and judging by the LP, i think is as good as any, for example.
Eggman, surely there are plenty who think otherwise, but i cannot understand why someone would go angry because of this, the only way to make a discussion on G13 "ugly" is by adding trolls to it, imho, and that's kinda cattle don't last long in this particular farm. So, post without fear, any new "real" story is welcomed. G13 belongs, for better or worse, to the Pantheon

[Eggman]

I`d buy the book also 7rayos. :-) I like history in general and if there was a good book out there that was all about the strains of this great plant we love I`d buy it now.
The discussions I was referring to have lots of folks that "know" that they "know the REAL story". Trolls? Maybe just folks that feel strongly about the subject. Like you said it always makes a good read.
Take care
Eggman