Dewaxing Sleeve Soak Times & Ball Valve Issue(s)...

[Shatterproof]

HELP!!!

New member, have definitely skimmed/read/absorbed/learned from the site in the past however this is my first post, first thread, first handle.

Greetings...

So, have been running a pair of 2lb CLS's passively for a while, took a bit to work through numerous newb issues, mistakes & tribulations. Got my system down and recovery times Andretti quick with gluttonous amounts of dry ice and silly amounts of elbow grease, but got it down.

Decided what the heck, grab a couple rec.pumps one sleeve/ball valve to start and upgrade the necessary parts to go active.

Had issues all over the place on the first day, starting when I set up the dewaxing sleeve & ball valve...

1. How long is an acceptable soak time before dropping your tane into column?
2. If not running active, do you close ball valve after allowing tane to drop into column before starting to recover or keep open?
3. How do you know when all tane has flowed through to your column without a sight glass, and what can you do in order to help speed this up??? I had huge issues with wayyy too much butane left in material tubes above the ball valve multiple times. Every time actually, even after allowing way more time to flow through than normal.
4. If/when going active how long should you run it?
5. Should recovery pumps run full time during recovery/active extraction or should you toggle a bit when pressure levels reach 0 on gauge, wait for some to build back up and then turn pump back on?

I appreciate any and all reply's and fully encourage any other applicable thread links to be posted rather than rewriting information that has already been discussed, though Coles notes would be greatly welcomed as I'm really having a difficult time wrapping my head around these issues, can't figure this ball valve/tane flow situation for the life of me and losing these huge amounts of n-tane & end-result is costly... Help!

-Shtrprf

 

[Graywolf]

HELP!!!

New member, have definitely skimmed/read/absorbed/learned from the site in the past however this is my first post, first thread, first handle.

Greetings...

So, have been running a pair of 2lb CLS's passively for a while, took a bit to work through numerous newb issues, mistakes & tribulations. Got my system down and recovery times Andretti quick with gluttonous amounts of dry ice and silly amounts of elbow grease, but got it down.

Decided what the heck, grab a couple rec.pumps one sleeve/ball valve to start and upgrade the necessary parts to go active.

Had issues all over the place on the first day, starting when I set up the dewaxing sleeve & ball valve...

1. How long is an acceptable soak time before dropping your tane into column?

I don't soak at all, but flow about three column volumes LPG through the material.

1. If not running active, do you close ball valve after allowing tane to drop into column before starting to recover or keep open?

I leave the ball valve open until pressure drops to around -15" Hg

1. How do you know when all tane has flowed through to your column without a sight glass, and what can you do in order to help speed this up??? I had huge issues with wayyy too much butane left in material tubes above the ball valve multiple times. Every time actually, even after allowing way more time to flow through than normal.

Less of an issue with a recovery pump. Just leave both the vent and dump valves open until -15".

1. If/when going active how long should you run it?

I put two volumes from the bottom and one from the top

1. Should recovery pumps run full time during recovery/active extraction or should you toggle a bit when pressure levels reach 0 on gauge, wait for some to build back up and then turn pump back on?

I run the pump constantly
I appreciate any and all reply's and fully encourage any other applicable thread links to be posted rather than rewriting information that has already been discussed, though Coles notes would be greatly welcomed as I'm really having a difficult time wrapping my head around these issues, can't figure this ball valve/tane flow situation for the life of me and losing these huge amounts of n-tane & end-result is costly... Help!

-Shtrprf

In bold.

 

[Shatterproof]

*ipad typo

will update w/pics tomorrow eve, thanks g-wolf...

 

[Shatterproof]

Ok, update for those interested and follow up to Graywolf's sound insight...

Ran a single wash last night, had hikups.

I'm going to list what I'm working with as well as post a few pics to help the discussion a long and hopefully aide in problem solving.

2 x 2lb extractors w/active add ons
1 dewaxing sleeve w/ball valve
2 x cps recovery pumps
2 x cps molecular transformers
5 cam vacuum pump
Immersion heater for water bath
Refrigerant scale

 

[Shatterproof]

Gage's on my unit are slightly different than the ones it sounds like you are running Graywolf, would you suggest switching over to yours for reasons previously mentioned?

 

[Mr Bee]

@DemonTrich @Graywolf

 

[Shatterproof]

Also, I think we may be running different CLS's as I'm not quite sure that running to washes from the bottom and one from the top is possible from mine?

 

[Shatterproof]

Now, on to the issues...

Holy crap, talk about almost starting from scratch. So many little problems I ran into that again had me really scratching my head.

LPG flow much better running the recovery pumps, strong point greywolf and brought much relief.

Biggest problem last night was recovery of all things, which is so strange because the first night running the pumps/sleeve recovery was a breeze, made me wonder why I hadn't been running pumps all along and really was the only thing that seemed to go right.

Last night, absolute nightmare.

This time round I left the ball valve open entire time which definitely allowed for better LPG flow and in theory a far better recovery ability so I dunno what was up but for a real long time nothing was coming out.

Gage stayed around 20, pump kept cycling on and off due to a high pressure shut off on the TR21. For a bit I thought I may have sucked liquid into it which thankfully I didn't.

I watched liquid levels through the sight glass into the column rise and fall numerous times which was totally strange.

Nothing going into tank, pump running.

Tried burping it a few times, didn't do much if anything, then decided to try and pull recovery through the top valve on unit that I use to wash which actually started to pull.

When running my previous passive, heavy dry ice and aggressive tank agitation method I would commonly toggle between column valve and material tube valve intermittently with great results so this didn't surprise me that it was working, other than completely surprising me that it was working if that makes any sense as it was completely stale for like an hour.

I'm wondering if perhaps my tank wasn't cold enough as now I have drilled through the top of a freezer and have it placed in there with pump feeding it as opposed to elbow grease and dry ice.

Still tho, wouldn't/couldn't explain this outright block that seemed like it would never pass, or the multiple tane liquid levels rise and fall within the column so drastically.

 

[Shatterproof]

Questions:

Hopefully graywolf sees this as I am humbly hoping for follow up with his generous answers and insights already givin earlier in thread.

1. When you spoke on leaving my vent valve open, is this something equipped onto mother CLS I'm running? And if so which valve would it be?
2. When running active should I be creating an absolute loop from tank through to recovery and back to tank?
3. Is a freezer a viable option for tank to sit during extraction w/pumps being used
4. How should the valves on my particular CLS be used, I'm unclear of how the t'd off valve should be manipulated

Once again very, very much appreciate any and all insights as well as taking the time to read my thread. Especially these last few posts as I was up way late and running way behind for an appointment which tends to lead to my writing and/or thought processes a little all over and not nearly as organized as I would normally compile.


*will add/edit more once I'm back and re-read posts...

Thanks for the input.

 

[Shatterproof]

Very confused about how my active add on tees off, I have been recovering via the up valve but unsure of what the side valve is designed to do.

I'm assuming this gets looped back up to the valve on top of my material tubes?

Would this require the use of another molecular transformer so that I'm not running hot gas back into my CLS?

 

[Graywolf]

Gage's on my unit are slightly different than the ones it sounds like you are running Graywolf, would you suggest switching over to yours for reasons previously mentioned?

I would dump the Molecular Transformers and use 3/8 or 1/2" X 50' stainless tubing coil. The transformers ID is constricting and surface area limited.

I use a JB M2-250 compound pressure gauge, which shows both negative and positive pressure.

 

[Graywolf]

Gage's on my unit are slightly different than the ones it sounds like you are running Graywolf, would you suggest switching over to yours for reasons previously mentioned?

How about a peeeecture of your plumbing?

You appear to be missing some connections that I put on mine.

 

[Graywolf]

Now, on to the issues...

Holy crap, talk about almost starting from scratch. So many little problems I ran into that again had me really scratching my head.

LPG flow much better running the recovery pumps, strong point greywolf and brought much relief.

Biggest problem last night was recovery of all things, which is so strange because the first night running the pumps/sleeve recovery was a breeze, made me wonder why I hadn't been running pumps all along and really was the only thing that seemed to go right.

Last night, absolute nightmare.

This time round I left the ball valve open entire time which definitely allowed for better LPG flow and in theory a far better recovery ability so I dunno what was up but for a real long time nothing was coming out.

Gage stayed around 20, pump kept cycling on and off due to a high pressure shut off on the TR21. For a bit I thought I may have sucked liquid into it which thankfully I didn't.

I watched liquid levels through the sight glass into the column rise and fall numerous times which was totally strange.

Nothing going into tank, pump running.

Tried burping it a few times, didn't do much if anything, then decided to try and pull recovery through the top valve on unit that I use to wash which actually started to pull.

When running my previous passive, heavy dry ice and aggressive tank agitation method I would commonly toggle between column valve and material tube valve intermittently with great results so this didn't surprise me that it was working, other than completely surprising me that it was working if that makes any sense as it was completely stale for like an hour.

I'm wondering if perhaps my tank wasn't cold enough as now I have drilled through the top of a freezer and have it placed in there with pump feeding it as opposed to elbow grease and dry ice.

Still tho, wouldn't/couldn't explain this outright block that seemed like it would never pass, or the multiple tane liquid levels rise and fall within the column so drastically.

High pressure shut off on the pumps suggests that you have non condensible gases in the system, typically atmosphere. Burping should fix it unless you continue to aspirate air.

Where is your sight glass in the system?

 

[Graywolf]

Questions:

Hopefully graywolf sees this as I am humbly hoping for follow up with his generous answers and insights already givin earlier in thread.

1. When you spoke on leaving my vent valve open, is this something equipped onto mother CLS I'm running? And if so which valve would it be?

Send me a picture or diagram of your plumbing and I will tell you. It is typically the valve at the head of the column that you open for top flooding or venting when bottom flooding.

1. When running active should I be creating an absolute loop from tank through to recovery and back to tank?

That is how I do it.

1. Is a freezer a viable option for tank to sit during extraction w/pumps being used

It won't work as well as an ice bath and typically isn't NEMA 7, Class I, Div I explosion proof.

1. How should the valves on my particular CLS be used, I'm unclear of how the t'd off valve should be manipulated

Dirty peeecture to save a thousand words??
Once again very, very much appreciate any and all insights as well as taking the time to read my thread. Especially these last few posts as I was up way late and running way behind for an appointment which tends to lead to my writing and/or thought processes a little all over and not nearly as organized as I would normally compile.


*will add/edit more once I'm back and re-read posts...

Thanks for the input.

Here are links to the original Mk I plumbing configuration and peeectures of the Mk IV Phoenix biflow plumbing:

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/projects/

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/the-mk-iva-phoenix-terpenator/

 

[Shatterproof]

Been washing all day, will report back with a whole grip of pics from start to finish including pours and oven porn later this evening.

thanks again g-wolf for responses.. will be thoroughly reading them in sequence once back on comp and posting in a few hours.

Ciao for now.

 

[Shatterproof]

I would dump the Molecular Transformers and use 3/8 or 1/2" X 50' stainless tubing coil. The transformers ID is constricting and surface area limited.

I use a JB M2-250 compound pressure gauge, which shows both negative and positive pressure.

Damn, that coil sounds impressive. Im curious now what length CPS winds in these coils, nothin compared to that I'm sure.

Compound pressure gage definitely seems more useful.

 

[Shatterproof]

How about a peeeecture of your plumbing?

You appear to be missing some connections that I put on mine.

Both are running passively, one with Sleeve and a recovery pump assist and the other just the old fashioned dry ice and work way which I'm going back to tomorrow on both as I'm getting way better results and have a way stronger confidence.

 

[Shatterproof]

High pressure shut off on the pumps suggests that you have non condensible gases in the system, typically atmosphere. Burping should fix it unless you continue to aspirate air.

Where is your sight glass in the system?

Sight glass sits on to of colomn of my unit.

 

[Shatterproof]

Here are links to the original Mk I plumbing configuration and peeectures of the Mk IV Phoenix biflow plumbing:

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/projects/

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/the-mk-iva-phoenix-terpenator/

These are serious extractors, well done. Fascinating to be honest, very curious as to how it works/what it's doing while it works.

Impressive, and appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Shatterproof]

Basically just went back to what I know today + dewaxing sleeve and pump assist w/recovery(which took longer than me labouring on other unit).

Still can't figure out how to run active with my machine, still can't figure out why the ball valve is valuable if no one really uses them or why late into wash/recovery I can still see LPG flowing through Sleeve out of the blue.

So strange.

And greywolf, by keeping the ball valve open does this not allow whatever fats/lipids that have coagulated in tune to end up getting back into Colomn?