Do bigger plants produce more potent buds???

[chief greenleaf]

"Herban Legends" Does plant size affect bud potency?

]Whats crack a lackin my fellow farmers! Ive just gotta get yalls opinion on this one after arguing forever about it last night.
Myself and a good buddy of mine were talkin about a nicely set up garden that he and another friend of ours was running. He told me t pullin around 1# per 1k watt light. I told him that there was plenty of room for improvement in the yield department but he strangely disagreed. He's a very knowledgable guy when it comes to the sweet herb so this obviously thru me off guard. I insisted that with the room properly dialed in they could easily be pullin close ta 2 per light usin SOG if not more since theyre in a sealed room utilzing CO2. And not only could they probably double their yield per harvest but they could also squeeze in an extra 2 or more harvests per year because they wouldnt need to veg for a month anymore. He agreed but said that they werent willing to sacrifice quality by growin a large number of small plants... This again caught me off guard because he normally knows what he's talkin about, but he was actually tryin to tell me that veg time affects potency. He insisted that a larger plant allowed to veg for a longer period of time would produce stronger buds than an identical plant grown with little or no veg time. And that you cant produce "one hit quit" herb from small plants regardless of strain. This sounded absolutely absurd to me but he was so confident in his claim that I just had ta run this by my everybody at the farm and see if anyone else has heard this or knows if there's any truth to this at all. I mean am I completely insane or does this just sound like another "herban legend"? HA! :rasta2:
So basically this is my question:
You start with 2 identical clones grown under identical conditions except one is allowed to veg for 2 months and grow rather large and the other is rooted vegged for a week and then flowered SOG stylee. Obviously the 2 month vegged clone will be much bigger and produce much more bud BUT will that bud be of a higher potency than its smaller counterpart??? Or would the potency be identical?
*Remember both plants are identical and grown under identical conditions. The only difference is the amount of veg time and the resulting difference in size.

 

[Donk Frog]

Sound fishy to me........ as I have run my purple wreck in both tree form(10-30gallon containers with long veg) and in one gallon buckets or hydro with very little veg......I have not had any differance positive or negitive in regards to size/potency ratios.......

 

[CAPO]

No...I think it depends on the strain. I grew a little runt of some old school SuperSkunk next to a much larger one from the same clone stock. I definitely preferred the smaller one over the big one. No science here just opinion. BTW... they were both the same age, they just didn't develop from clone the same. I think after a certain point in veg it really doesn't matter for most strains.

 

[Malachi]

I actually think it's the opposite unless you are growing in a vertical setup. In a sea of green setup you have multiple top colas that get the same light penetration where as a larger plant is 50/50 unless you are smart and lollipop it. I have smoked some bottom bud before off of a plant that didnt hardly get me high, but the top colas wrecked me on the same plant. Is that because of the light penetration not maturing the bottom buds as fast as the top colas? I don't know but I am just speaking from experience ... sounds suspect to me.

 

[Skunkenstein]

Potency has Zip to do with veg time..and everything to do with flowering.A local cutting around here,some production guys will chop at 45days.That same cut ran to 59-62 days almost seems like a different plant altogether..Everything is better!!Now your yield will be affected by Veg..The idea behind yeild;is to 'Root out' given container prior to inducing 12/12.It makes No sense to put a clone in a 5gal. bucket give it 7days Veg, then kick it too 12/12.Big roots below=Big buds on top.Getting the best potency that your plant can Genetically offer comes from the flowers being given adequate flowering time.Once a plant is induced to flower,the hormones change, and the plant ceases to grow roots, and Focuses on bud production.I'm kinda jumping around, but thats the basic idea...Grow the Roots for the yield and give proper length of time to hit Peak potency..Hope this helps!!

 

[chief greenleaf]

What up Donkfrog, Capo how are things in the jungle my dude? I really think if anything a smaller plant would probably be stronger if anything just because the entire plant gets plenty of light. I was also thinkin that smaller plants tend to have a higher bud to foliage ratio and might be able to concentrate the majority of their energy and nutrients towards bud/thc production since it would have a much smaller percentage of stalk/foliage to support. That make any sense at all???
I honestly dont think that plant size has anything at all ta do with potency. I mean when you grow from clone youre actually growing a plant that is several months, if not several years old! And if ya think about it a lot of the best growers in the world run SOG set ups, do you really think they would do so if it would result in lower potency herb???

 

[chief greenleaf]

Malachi, Skunkenstein whats happenin, I guess yall both posted while I was writin that last reply. But thats funny Malachi I was thinkin the exact same thing. It only makes sense that the buds getting the most light will perform the best, and in a SOG with all the small plants and even canopy every bud gets ta utilize the maximum amount of light. I have noticed that colas tend to be much stronger than bottom buds too, and in SOG you have pretty much nothing but colas!
Thanks for the response Skunkenstein, Ive always grown SOG except outdoors obviously, I had no doubt that this was complete and utter bullshit I just wanted ta hear what yall thought and if anybody else had ever heard this. It seems like there's enough solid info out there ta correct all the bs myths out there. But as long as smokin a lot of weed makes you a master grower Im sure the myths will keep on comin ya know!

 

[edux10]

I actually think it's the opposite unless you are growing in a vertical setup. In a sea of green setup you have multiple top colas that get the same light penetration where as a larger plant is 50/50 unless you are smart and lollipop it. I have smoked some bottom bud before off of a plant that didnt hardly get me high, but the top colas wrecked me on the same plant. Is that because of the light penetration not maturing the bottom buds as fast as the top colas? I don't know but I am just speaking from experience ... sounds suspect to me.

I always thought it was this way too. Subcool says that usually genetically small plants seem to produce more risin by volume, but i think size of the same strain has little to do with it but would think if anything the smaller would have more of an advantage. A lot of peeps like to stress their plants too and it seems like a very quick veg the abrubt flower would be more stress than a long gradual change.... just a thought.

 

[ogtealover420]

Well this is a toughy but strain dependency is at play unless the plant is unreasonably small or has become "dwarfed" witch can happen due pathogens and/or disease or damaged roots. But i have noticed more quality on some of the big colas on larger plants as larger plants are more "hardy" and have more "vigor" do to shear size and nutrients/water avialibilty. Plus larger plants have larger stalks that can rush more nutes/water through the mainstem. Also may I point out that the age is of importance too for example have you guys noticed the leaves patterns change with age. So on that note I assume that once maximum "leaf fingers have been reach for your strain and conditions the main colas will produce at their maximum capability weither at is five seven or thirteen just depends....

 

[Malachi]

Well this is a toughy but strain dependency is at play unless the plant is unreasonably small or has become "dwarfed" witch can happen due pathogens and/or disease or damaged roots. But i have noticed more quality on some of the big colas on larger plants as larger plants are more "hardy" and have more "vigor" do to shear size and nutrients/water avialibilty. Plus larger plants have larger stalks that can rush more nutes/water through the mainstem. Also may I point out that the age is of importance too for example have you guys noticed the leaves patterns change with age. So on that note I assume that once maximum "leaf fingers have been reach for your strain and conditions the main colas will produce at their maximum capability weither at is five seven or thirteen just depends....

would have to disagree, i think leaf fingers are based on genetics not age. i have seen 11 finger leaves shoot off the third node before ...

 

[rawman]

Bigger plants in my opimion never really affect the end quality. Condition, and strain are really what effect the quality imo

 

[CheebaMonkey]

Just my own logic here no real scientific explanation but...

A bud is nothing more than a bunch of calyxes. Each individual calyx has it's own lifecycle that seems to remain constant regardless of the size of the rest of the plant. Now the first time I grew I was very impatient and sampled buds long before harvest. Based on this experience I concluded that the only thing effecting potency was the age of the individual calyx, not the location of the budsite, not the size of the plant.

 

[Kpezzy]

interesting cheeba

 

[OnlyDirtPurv]

I started Chernobyl from TGA and Skunk #11 from Dutch Passion about 3 weeks ago and on the 3rd node, they both have 11 fingers... My Purp. Kush has 13 and is some of the tastiest Oregon Bomb.

 

[Blaze]

If you are talking different strains, or different pheno types of the same strain, then yes, the smaller plant do generally tend to be more potent. This does not always hold true, but often the strains or phenos within a strain that stay smaller do produce better quality. This has to do with the ratio between primary and secondary compounds produced by the plant.

However if you are talking the same cut of the same strain, then veg time will have no effect on quality or potency what-so-ever. The main factor in determining potency is genetics - environment is secondary. So long as the plant is healthy and being grown to it's fullest potential the veg time will make no difference on potency or quality. IMO your friend is hurting their yields for no logical reason.

 

[1971]

i think your buddy has been smoking a bit too much as veg time only impacts yield. You'd have to send identical plants grown both ways to a lab to truly determine the truth of his statement.

 

[dachronic]

yes they can be given more nutes

 

[Vinnya]

"Herban Legends" Does plant size affect bud potency?

]Whats crack a lackin my fellow farmers! Ive just gotta get yalls opinion on this one after arguing forever about it last night.
Myself and a good buddy of mine were talkin about a nicely set up garden that he and another friend of ours was running. He told me t pullin around 1# per 1k watt light. I told him that there was plenty of room for improvement in the yield department but he strangely disagreed. He's a very knowledgable guy when it comes to the sweet herb so this obviously thru me off guard. I insisted that with the room properly dialed in they could easily be pullin close ta 2 per light usin SOG if not more since theyre in a sealed room utilzing CO2. And not only could they probably double their yield per harvest but they could also squeeze in an extra 2 or more harvests per year because they wouldnt need to veg for a month anymore. He agreed but said that they werent willing to sacrifice quality by growin a large number of small plants... This again caught me off guard because he normally knows what he's talkin about, but he was actually tryin to tell me that veg time affects potency. He insisted that a larger plant allowed to veg for a longer period of time would produce stronger buds than an identical plant grown with little or no veg time. And that you cant produce "one hit quit" herb from small plants regardless of strain. This sounded absolutely absurd to me but he was so confident in his claim that I just had ta run this by my everybody at the farm and see if anyone else has heard this or knows if there's any truth to this at all. I mean am I completely insane or does this just sound like another "herban legend"? HA! :rasta2:
So basically this is my question:
You start with 2 identical clones grown under identical conditions except one is allowed to veg for 2 months and grow rather large and the other is rooted vegged for a week and then flowered SOG stylee. Obviously the 2 month vegged clone will be much bigger and produce much more bud BUT will that bud be of a higher potency than its smaller counterpart??? Or would the potency be identical?
*Remember both plants are identical and grown under identical conditions. The only difference is the amount of veg time and the resulting difference in size.

This is what confuses me. I have two, second generation blueberry plants (and I have a third generation waiting in the wings) and they are small. One, the older one, by about two weeks, is about 16 inches tall, the other, about 14 inches tall. They have been flowering now for about 6 weeks. I pulled all the fan leaves off, and that made a lot of side shoots where buds are growing. What confuses me is if this is ok to do or not. I've had some problems with some of the side shoots dying, and there is a lot of space in between. But the top buds are growing SLOWLY growing, but some of the leaves turn brown and die, and it seems that it is taking a long time for them to fill in. I know I have six more weeks and this isn't the right forum, but can anyone tell me if this is right or not. I check the ph regularly and it is around 6 to 6.5. I am using HAPPY FROG soil, which has the good fungus in it, and 40 percent vermiculite mix. I am using Ph Perfect, a three part nutrient solution which worked well the last time I used it. Is it also better to do have one big bud, or many smaller buds? Does it make a difference?? thanks for the HELP!

 

[jumpincactus]

potency is directing related to the genetics of the strain. And to a lesser extent the grow enviroment & the grow skillz of the farmer and how well they allow the strain to reach it's maximum genetic potential. Yield amount is NOT a factor. My names jumpin C and I endorse this statement.

 

[Vinnya]

Ok, but you still didn't answer my question.