What makes dense buds ??

  • Thread starter cutdown
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
C

cutdown

16
0
So i'm interrested as i'm sure everyone is on how to get dense buds? Is it a strain dependant thing,a light thing or a fertalizer thing lol?I only have about 2 grows (complete,from seed to chop)under my belt so limited experience as of now but those 2 grows the bud was good but came out after the dry stringy ,light and u can definately see thru and see the stem .How do i corect this i would love to have the beatiful full swollen dense buds that i have grown to love and see on here that makes my mouth water lol Please this winter grow coming up i would love to be all around happy with my efforts.Please can yall experienced growers school me a little :sign0065:
ty yall
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
First, strain--Indica dominance is what you're going to need. After that, feeding plays a role. Especially giving that oh-so-important boost of P & K at the right time(s). This is assuming sufficient light.

I've given up chasing super-dense buds on all the lines I run, I finally learned that not only is it impossible to get from some of them, but weight is weight. A pound of feathers weighs the same as pound of brick. Question for *me* is, what's gonna make me feel good?
 
S

Sea Of Green

Guest
So we've got indica strain, proper feeding, and sufficient light. I have to agree with those. To which I'll add some more. First, on the light component, it must be intense, well reflected, and with as full a spectrum as possible with an emphasis on the red/orange portion. More on proper feeding coming right up.

Next, an article in CC magazine that I found to be very helpful when learning to grow bigger denser buds indoors.

Control your cannabis
By DMT, photos by Barge - Monday, April 24 2000

Fine-tuning temperature and water for maximum quantity and quality.

Why waste light and electricity growing stem? Stretched-out plants are the bane of indoor growers. There are several ways to reduce internodal length and thus grow denser, more efficient buds.

Temperature control
The easiest and most under-used way to control internodal stretch is temperature control. Plant internodal length is directly related to the difference between day and night temperatures ? the warmer your day cycle is as compared to your night cycle, the greater your internode length will be. The opposite also holds true; the closer your day and night temperatures, the shorter your internodes will be. Ever notice how as the warmer summer months approach, your plants begin to stretch? Part of this problem may lie in an overall hotter grow-room, but a larger factor is the increased difference between day and night temperatures.

Lets look at putting this to play in your grow room. Maximum temperatures should ideally never rise above 26?C, so you must do everything you can to prevent your room getting too hot (run lights at night, use exhaust fans, air conditioners, etc). An ideal temperature range is 24-25?C when the lights are on, and 22?C when the lights are off.

The temperature technique is most effective under a 12/12 light regime, which is ideal as this is when cannabis stretches the most. When the light cycle is brought to 12/12 we will raise the night temperature to the daytime level of 24-25?C. Space heaters on timers work well for this, and max/min type thermometers are ideal

It is during the first 2-3 weeks of the flower cycle that most strains begin to lengthen internodes, making it a very important time to control temperature, as this is when the framework for future colas is built. After this 2-3 week window we need to drop the night temperature back down to 22?C, as this is where the plant is happiest.

As floral development begins we need to keep in mind that the total size of your buds is determined largely by average daily temperature, provided it does not exceed optimal. So if you are letting your day temperatures drop below 24?C or your night drop below 22?C, you are costing yourself in overall weight and harvest.

Once your buds have reached optimal size and and you have begun the flushing period, you may consider dropping temperature down to 17-19?C for the final week or two. This drop in temperature triggers anthocyanin production, which intensifies the colour of the floral clusters and makes for a showier bud, especially with "purple" varieties. This final temperature change is not always feasible and can be omitted.

For extreme height control you may even use warmer night temperature than day, but be very careful when running settings like this, as even a zero difference between night and day temperatures will lead to leaf chlorosis (yellowing) after 2-3 weeks.

Some things you will notice while using this technique are a change in the leaf angle, upwards during warm days and downwards during warm nights. There is also the chlorosis if this is done for too long. Neither of these symptoms is nutrient related and will fix themselves when the temperature is changed back.

Moisture and conductivity
Whether you're growing hydro or in soil, the electrical conductivity (EC) and moisture of your medium are two key elements that should be manipulated to meet your needs. Both of these factors are controlling the same thing; the ability of a plant to uptake water and nutrients from the growth medium. (EC measures the level of fertilizer salts in the water.)

A plant grows by first dividing cells then expanding them, and in order to do this it requires water. By limiting the amount of water available to a plant you limit the expansion of cells. This can work for you by keeping your internodes close together, or against you by limiting bud growth. Both the amount of water you give your plants and the EC at which you grow them control the uptake of water.

A plant's roots act much like a pump, using osmotic pressure to move water into the plant. In order for this to work there must be a larger concentration of fertilizer salts in the plant's roots than in the soil or hydroponic solution, so when the medium's level of salt rises above the roots', the plant will wilt. Raising the salt level in the medium closer to that which is in the roots limits the water availability just the same as if we had provided less water.

During the vegetative stage we want our plants to form very tight internodes, especially under artificial lighting. By allowing the EC to drop below ideal during this stage we are wasting valuable space growing stem instead of bud. Most marijuana strains are happiest when grown at an EC of between 1.5 and 1.8, but different strains have different preferences. Try growing one of your plants using straight water for a week or so, you will see the internode length stretch dramatically compared to the ones on a regular fertilizer regime.

Hydroponic tomato growers sometimes will grow their transplants at extremely high EC's (up to 6 EC!) in order to get really nice stocky production plants. Please note that when doing this they use special nutrient formulas designed for this purpose, most of which have potassium to nitrogen ratios of 4:1, much higher than normal, as too much nitrate at this high an EC will easily damage a plant.

(Try this formula if you're interested: calcium nitrate 7 grams, potassium nitrate 0.095 grams, potassium sulphate 9.25 grams, mono potassium phosphate 2.2 gram, magnesium sulphate 5 grams, micromix .02 grams. Slowly raise your EC during veg stage, I would not recommend going above 3 or 4 EC. This is experimental! Do not try on all of your plants at once until you are sure your strain can handle it. All of these ingredients should be available at your local hydroponics store, it is usually called "six pack formula". Be sure to bring your EC back down once you enter floral stage, by the time tufts of pistils are visible you want to be at your ideal EC of 1.5-1.8.)

Try not to change the EC too quickly as a sharp drop can cause root damage. This also goes during your final flushing period when you want to eliminate all fertilizer from the medium ? lower the EC over a couple of days, as the sudden change in salt level will harm the roots.

When growing hydroponically, the only way of manipulating water availability is with the EC, while in soil we may also use the moisture level of the medium to the same ends. Many growers are under the mistaken impression that the EC and pH of their nutrient solution remains the same when applied to the soil. This in not the case, and you must test the soil in order to have a true
picture.

To test your soil, take a sample from the center of the root zone at the side of the pot (don't worry the torn roots will be fine). Mix the soil with 2 equal parts distilled water and let sit for 20 minutes. Once the time is up take an EC reading and multiply this number by 2.4 (this takes into account the dilution and the pore space factor) this will give you an accurate picture of the EC the roots are actually being exposed to. The pH should also be checked at this time. It is not feasible in soil to maintain an exact EC at all times, what we need to try and avoid is EC's climbing much above what we want and plants going for long periods with very low EC's.

A frequent mistake marijuana growers make is over-emphasizing the need for a plant grown in soil to dry out completely between waterings. Cannabis does like dry feet but this simply means that the root zone must not be kept extremely wet at all times. Keep in mind that if the soil has an EC of 1.8 and then dries out completely the amount of salt remains the same, causing the EC to double or more.

As a general rule, during the vegetative stage you should keep your plants a little on the drier side as this will restrict cell elongation, creating a shorter noded plant structure capable of creating a dense bud cluster in the floral stage. (Unless of course you are using the high EC method described above, in this case you must not let your soil get too dry because of the increased fertilizer level you will create.) Maintain this level of moisture into the first 14 to 20 days of 12/12 to minimize internode stretch.

As soon as early flowering begins you need to increase soil moisture to a nice evenly moist (not soaked) level to maximize bud expansion. Growing marijuana too dry during this stage will adversely affect your overall yield, as will having too high an EC in the medium.

1536-concan1.jpg

tight internodes
1536-concan5.jpg

example of tight internodes(closeup)
1536-concan2.jpg

long internodes
1536-concan4.jpg

example of long internodes (closeup)
1536-concan3.jpg

leaf chlorosis (yellowing)


Also, big healthy green leaves are crucial to making big dense buds.

1. Never remove a leaf from the plant, unless the leaf is already about to fall off on it's own due to over-maturity(or accidental/premature death). Pruning shade leaves to increase light reaching lower buds is not a wise choice. You will never make up for the loss of production to the top of the plant from whatever may be gained on the lower part. The answer to that is to provide sufficient lighting to the lower buds, optimal reflectivity is the best way to get more light to the lower parts of the plant. Or just remove them from the plant(why you would is another argument really, so I won't be addressing it here, but I don't recommend it either). Light loses intensity/strength based on distance from the source. So you gain relatively little from doing anything except moving the source closer to the plant, or vise versa. Leaves serve a very important purpose in maintaining plant health and vigor. Buds are not going to efficiently feed themselves without them. LEAVES ARE BUD FEEDERS, NOT BUD FOOD!

2. Never flush. Pre-harvest flushing is such a fat dense bud killer it's not even funny. Just in the hopes of getting a better flavored smoking material. Which you won't. It may actually worsen the flavor, density, smokability, and/or potency of the buds. MINIMALLY you will lose harvested/dried weight. You're essentially starving the plant to death. When you should be feeding it what it needs to grow the BIGGEST DENSEST buds at the point in it's life cycle when that's exactly what it wants to do. Yes, I know the article mentions it, but I don't see that as a recommendation. Just how to incorporate the method, if desired. Which you should desire not, trust me. Much foolishness. Mother Nature, the best grower in the universe, doesn't flush her plants, and nor should you. AND IT WILL ACTUALLY INCREASE INTERNODE LENGTH/STRETCH, GUARANTEED!!!

Lastly, stems. Bigger, denser, heavier buds also need bigger thicker stems to pipe in all the nutritional building blocks used to make them, and to help support their weight. While controlling internode length is very effective at improving density, providing a simulated breeze of adequate strength is THE ONLY non-nutritional way to build a larger-diameter/sturdier stem structure. When the plant grows to resist the forces of wind it will naturally respond to it by thickening it's stems/branches. This benefits the buds come flowering time by allowing them to grow much larger and/or faster. In this sense you can force the plant to grow as if it were older, taller, and/or heavier than it really is. You also will have less need to support the plant by manual methods(stakes, strings, cages, etc.)
 
caregiverken

caregiverken

Fear Not!
Supporter
11,535
438
Im thinking "super cropping" might help the buds be More Dense.

I am newb though...But It certainly can't hurt


ETA; Thanks for the Info Sea of Green Great post
 
The HC

The HC

93
6
1. Never remove a leaf from the plant, unless the leaf is already about to fall off on it's own due to over-maturity(or accidental/premature death). Pruning shade leaves to increase light reaching lower buds is not a wise choice. You will never make up for the loss of production to the top of the plant from whatever may be gained on the lower part. The answer to that is to provide sufficient lighting to the lower buds, optimal reflectivity is the best way to get more light to the lower parts of the plant. Or just remove them from the plant(why you would is another argument really, so I won't be addressing it here, but I don't recommend it either). Light loses intensity/strength based on distance from the source. So you gain relatively little from doing anything except moving the source closer to the plant, or vise versa. Leaves serve a very important purpose in maintaining plant health and vigor. Buds are not going to efficiently feed themselves without them. LEAVES ARE BUD FEEDERS, NOT BUD FOOD!

2. Never flush. Pre-harvest flushing is such a fat dense bud killer it's not even funny. Just in the hopes of getting a better flavored smoking material. Which you won't. It may actually worsen the flavor, density, smokability, and/or potency of the buds. MINIMALLY you will lose harvested/dried weight. You're essentially starving the plant to death. When you should be feeding it what it needs to grow the BIGGEST DENSEST buds at the point in it's life cycle when that's exactly what it wants to do. Yes, I know the article mentions it, but I don't see that as a recommendation. Just how to incorporate the method, if desired. Which you should desire not, trust me. Much foolishness. Mother Nature, the best grower in the universe, doesn't flush her plants, and nor should you. AND IT WILL ACTUALLY INCREASE INTERNODE LENGTH/STRETCH, GUARANTEED!!!

This, especially the second one, contradicts what I've always have been told.

Are these from research or experience?

Why would people flush if it was harmful and unnecessary?
 
C

cutdown

16
0
wow

Omg sog man great post really lot of excellent info man ty very much made alot of sense ,and seamaiden ty maam for the experience given to me .The temprature explanation is excellent all of the post was awesome but i hae fougt thehigh temprature monster this whole grow.The bud is really good body high lots resinglands and good pistol production just bud stretched and i believe it was combo of poor non phed water and high temps...thiswinters grow will be better i can control temp alot etter and i have a decent strain Bubbalious ..ty u all for post yall rock....u live u learn u grow u listen
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
Temperature was another very important factor that I forgot about. Most folks talk about how high heat can cause a plant to produce fluffier buds. Well, I'm here to tell you that conditions being too cool can do the same thing, too. Perfectly good buds! But fluffy cuzza cold.

SOG's post brought that up and many other points, much more comprehensive. :)
 
OGONLY

OGONLY

752
63
I'm with Venom. This person never referenced what type of growing he was refering to as far as flushing is conserned. For example, organic herb doesn't need to be flushed, true. However any herb grown hydroponicly should have a flush of at least 7 days in my opinion. I chose to flush my hydro 14 days and my herb is nearly always dense, almost always full of flavor and smooth.

There was definitely some good information in there don't get me wrong. I personally disagree with the statement made about NEVER cutting a leaf off. I rarley remove leaves from my plants, but I feel multiple layers of large leaves blocking mid-canopy bud sites constitutes a good reason to remove a leaf or 2. There are other reasons too IMO but I'm not going to get into writing a novel here.
 
D

DazedNconfussed

537
16
I dont belive the deleafing part being a no no either....my last crop I had a ph problem while i was away and had my bro takin care....damm near every fan leaf died off (realisticly probly 50-70%).
I yeilded 4lbs of casey of 2 - 1k's.....the bud swelled more then the previous grow....I thought maybe it forced the plants to absorb most of the light through the buds thus exploding the buds.

I'm not saying this is the way to do it, Or thats what happens....its just a completly uneducated geuss.

But when I see people say shit like flushing does nothing and thats a fact, or dont ever pluck any green leafs its hard to know how biased there other facts are. Its all opinions.
 
C

cannabisabalism

11
0
Great read, thank you for posting! I have the hardest time dialing in density.

Any tips on ph swing by chance?
 
jammie

jammie

366
93
This, especially the second one, contradicts what I've always have been told.

Are these from research or experience?

Why would people flush if it was harmful and unnecessary?

tobacco farmers don't flush, veggie farmers don't flush. if you don't go crazy with additives and super high ec's, the only reason to flush is for color, and i don't smoke weed for its color!
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
I'm with Venom. This person never referenced what type of growing he was refering to as far as flushing is conserned. For example, organic herb doesn't need to be flushed, true. However any herb grown hydroponicly should have a flush of at least 7 days in my opinion. I chose to flush my hydro 14 days and my herb is nearly always dense, almost always full of flavor and smooth.

There was definitely some good information in there don't get me wrong. I personally disagree with the statement made about NEVER cutting a leaf off. I rarley remove leaves from my plants, but I feel multiple layers of large leaves blocking mid-canopy bud sites constitutes a good reason to remove a leaf or 2. There are other reasons too IMO but I'm not going to get into writing a novel here.
I agree with those points, especially flushing because I've smoked a gal who I tried to reveg and didn't take. I snagged her buds before they went the way she was going and they tasted like CRAP. I do remove leaves from the plants, but do it like you do (this is for indoors). However, I've never found those variables to play a real role in bud density with the exception of leaves blocking lower sites. However, I typically try to remove those sites altogether, while leaving the leaves. Sometimes it's a trick.
 
S

Shamanfarmer

68
18
P/K boost around week 4 to 6 has major difference in density for me. That said, you have to already have healthy plants in a good environment for that extra p/k to do anything. Light intensity also has a large influence on density in my experience.

On the subject of flushing. I started out flushing 14 days, i've now cut back to 7 days and have harvested several with no flush at all, and have noticed no difference in flavor, smokability or high. I have noticed at least a 10% increase in quality bud. I plan to completely cut out flushing in favor of slowly decreasing the ec through the last 5-7 days.
 
Top Bottom