And The Best Soil For A Small Harvest Would Be?

[DemonTrich]

I thought we were passed all the BS lately guys.


I've been a 100% ffof user for nearly 6yrs now, maybe 5.5yrs. It has coco in it, it what seems to be coco pieces. I LOVE OF and see me not changing it any time.soon, or even later for that matter. I add nutes about 4 weeks later.

 

[brazel]

I thought the whole argument was that we should use this magic mix that you were propping. I'm saying is it possible to make it up D.I.Y?

absolutely and I recommend that the most. I don't like to think of it as my argument I like to think of it more of pushing for change. All I'm asking is to step back and take a look and think.
I use no ph, no flush, if you could eliminate these why wouldn't you want to? The only reason you flush is because what you feed it. Does it make since to feed it something you have to flush out?
These are companies who's goal is to sell, so they make as many products as they can and try to convince you, you need all of them. I think that's wrong.
I believe you should question constantly, ask why, research, do a side by side grow. But I get it people say if it's not broken don't fix it but I look at it as they're settling. I always strive to do better.

I used to grow with all kinds of bottle nutes and flush, then when I was driving through the mountains and I was looking at all the plants growing I started to wonder nobody pH these, nobody flush nobody came out here with bottle of nutrients and they've been growing for years without any input. That's the way I should be growing.
At the time I was adding bottle after bottle, chasing deficiencies and always on the Infirmary page... you know what was wrong? I was trying to grow a plant! Why am I trying to grow a plant, that's the soils job!
Build a soil and have the soil grow the plant. I started conversating with coot, gas, microbeman, blue jay, Mile High guy and others.

Started using all kinds of things and figured out what was what. Sprouted seed tea is one of the best way to get enzymes, you could use aloe vera to clone instead of using root hormone, oyster shell for calcium there's so many natural ingredients that could replace synthetic. We quit reading books about marijuana and started researching soil. All the people we got advice from turned into bullshit.

After every grow we would dispose of a soil everything had to be sterile no bugs... Well this doesn't make sense. Then started to learn about the soil food web, some bugs were beneficial, mulch, companion planting, living mulch, maintaining worm farm, add amendments to the worm farm... It just got better and better and it still is evolving. This is hands-down the best way to grow the best herb to smoke. Years ago it was a constant fight constant bashing constant battle. it was all about making your soil yourself. There was no products related to this style, now there's all kinds of stuff related to the style which most are bullshit.
Kis Organics was the first shop to start catering to this style I think. Then Jeremy moved from socal to Colorado and started build a soil.
Coot is the pioneer and his soil recipe is the gold standard, he pushed this style further than anyone. Masanobu Fukuoka was one of the original pioneers, way ahead of his time yet he took the simplest approach.

Anyway this is probably all bullshit but it was fun to write. Cheers

For Blending and Topdressing:

Malted Barley

For Mixing in Soil:

Crustacean Meal

Kelp Meal

Neem Cake

Karanja Cake

Basalt

Gypsum

Oyster Shell Flour

Apply at a rate of 2 cups per cubic foot or approximately 1/4 cup per gallon of the mix when mixing soil.

Coot's Soil Recipe per cubic foot of soil (7.5 gallons):

1/3 Sphagnum Peat Moss

1/3 Aeration Amendment (pumice, lava rock, perlite, vermiculite, rice hulls, etc..)

1/3 High Quality Compost and/or Earthworm Castings

2 cups of Coot's Nutrient and Mineral Pack above

2 cups of Malted Barley (blend 1 cup into a powder then mix into soil, the other cup will be top dressed at a rate of 1/4 cup of malted barley each week starting in week 4. You will want to blend the barley right before applying it).

NOTE: The key to this mix is to use high quality compost or earthworm castings. The compost and castings portion contain the highest concentrations of beneficial microbes which are needed to break down the nutrients in to a plant-available form.

 

[dan1989]

absolutely and I recommend that the most. I don't like to think of it as my argument I like to think of it more of pushing for change. All I'm asking is to step back and take a look and think.
I use no ph, no flush, if you could eliminate these why wouldn't you want to? The only reason you flush is because what you feed it. Does it make since to feed it something you have to flush out?
These are companies who's goal is to sell, so they make as many products as they can and try to convince you, you need all of them. I think that's wrong.
I believe you should question constantly, ask why, research, do a side by side grow. But I get it people say if it's not broken don't fix it but I look at it as they're settling. I always strive to do better.

I used to grow with all kinds of bottle nutes and flush, then when I was driving through the mountains and I was looking at all the plants growing I started to wonder nobody pH these, nobody flush nobody came out here with bottle of nutrients and they've been growing for years without any input. That's the way I should be growing.
At the time I was adding bottle after bottle, chasing deficiencies and always on the Infirmary page... you know what was wrong? I was trying to grow a plant! Why am I trying to grow a plant, that's the soils job!
Build a soil and have the soil grow the plant. I started conversating with coot, gas, microbeman, blue jay, Mile High guy and others.
Started using all kinds of things and figured out what was what. Sprouted seed tea is one of the best way to get enzymes, you could use aloe vera to clone instead of using root hormone, oyster shell for calcium there's so many natural ingredients that could replace synthetic. We quit reading books about marijuana and started researching soil. All the people we got advice from turned into bullshit. After every grow we would dispose of a soil everything had to be sterile no bugs... Well this doesn't make sense. Then started to learn about the soil food web, some bugs were beneficial, mulch, companion planting living mulch, maintaining worm farm, add amendments to the worm farm... I just got better and better and it still is evolving. This is hands-down the best way to grow the best herb to smoke. Years ago it was a constant fight constant bashing constant battle. it was all about making your soil yourself. There was no products related to this style, now there's all kinds of stuff related to the style which most are bullshit.
Kis Organics was the first shop to start catering to this style I think. Then Jeremy moved from socal to Colorado and started build a soil.
Coot is the pioneer and his soil recipe is the gold standard, he pushed this style further than anyone. Masanobu Fukuoka was one of the original pioneers, way ahead of his time yet he took the simplest approach.

Anyway this is probably all bullshit but it was fun to write. Cheers

For Blending and Topdressing:

Malted Barley

For Mixing in Soil:

Crustacean Meal

Kelp Meal

Neem Cake

Karanja Cake

Basalt

Gypsum

Oyster Shell Flour

Apply at a rate of 2 cups per cubic foot or approximately 1/4 cup per gallon of the mix when mixing soil.

Coot's Soil Recipe per cubic foot of soil (7.5 gallons):

1/3 Sphagnum Peat Moss

1/3 Aeration Amendment (pumice, lava rock, perlite, vermiculite, rice hulls, etc..)

1/3 High Quality Compost and/or Earthworm Castings

2 cups of Coot's Nutrient and Mineral Pack above

2 cups of Malted Barley (blend 1 cup into a powder then mix into soil, the other cup will be top dressed at a rate of 1/4 cup of malted barley each week starting in week 4. You will want to blend the barley right before applying it).

NOTE: The key to this mix is to use high quality compost or earthworm castings. The compost and castings portion contain the highest concentrations of beneficial microbes which are needed to break down the nutrients in to a plant-available form.

Was read with interest. Will keep this for the future. Thanks for taking the time to write. Bit advanced for me if I'm being honest, still got a lot to learn. Quite true what you said about plants growing in the wild though. No hard feelings, was a good debate in the end. Chat again soon, Dan

 

[brazel]

I thought we were passed all the BS lately guys.


I've been a 100% ffof user for nearly 6yrs now, maybe 5.5yrs. It has coco in it, it what seems to be coco pieces. I LOVE OF and see me not changing it any time.soon, or even later for that matter. I add nutes about 4 weeks later.

Keep doing you, but why not grow one of your plants in amended soil? You can get it ready to go .5cf for 25 bucks or 1.5cf for 45. You'd still have your regular grow so you'd lose nothing and the knowledge you'd gain is priceless.

I understand you're happy with your grow and don't wanna change, but Do you remember the excitement you had before you feel into your routine. Waiting for the lights to come on so you could see if there's any changes! Trying different products and techniques. Do you ever miss that?

 

[brazel]

Was read with interest. Will keep this for the future. Thanks for taking the time to write. Bit advanced for me if I'm being honest, still got a lot to learn. Quite true what you said about plants growing in the wild though. No hard feelings, was a good debate in the end. Chat again soon, Dan

Thank you for reading this with interest! It gets you thinking huh! I appreciate your words to, they made me realize that some of the things I said I should have worded better. Sometimes we can go off in the wrong direction but it's pretty rad when we end up in a better place

 

[brazel]

Hi fellow growers just a question how often should I feed plant's upon the watering I have feed them every time with watering still look healthy but I have put into flowering so I been doing a bit of research it says you should feed on every 3rd watering I'm using coco natural soil and 600wt omega dual spectrum light in big tent with 3 fans 2 in tent 2 for intake my ph is t.5.5 to 5.8 I'm usi g a+b feed another question on next feed can I mix cana boost Into feed I want to get it perfect

I'm confused on some of this... but I'll try my best. Typically nutes will have a feed schedule on their bottle or website. If they look healthy then no reason to change. Flush periodically otherwise you get build up. When you say coco natural soil, does that mean you mixed coco with soil out of your backyard?
Feed on every third watering is poor advice, your third watering could be two weeks later and theirs could be five days.
Read the feed schedule of what you're using!
Mix canna boost with feed? Does this mean mix your veg nutes with flower nutes? If so then no.

 

[brazel]

@ J Dee.

It takes very little to ignite an opinion storm here. :)
Just happy that no one recommended Miracle grow. They burst out of the woodwork for M.G. bashing. :D

But, back to your original question.
I am, by no means, a "professional".
I'm just some geek on the net who loves to experiment.
And I'm old as dirt, so I offer you years of experience with said experiments.

Best to keep it simple for the first couple grows, yah?
Ignore most of the well meaning "advice."

Small tent? First grow? I went with dirt, and water.
That worked very well. Once I had a harvest, I was hooked on growing.
Then, it was time to experiment with more difficult methods.
Oil requires a lot of bud and we have a plant number limit, so . . . :(

First, I played with nutes. Dyna-grow and Dyna-bloom beat out several other popular ferts.
My best, was also the cheapest and easiest. Captain Jacks dry nutes.
about a 20% gain over FFOF. Not bad, but I needed a better yield and 20% did not really justify the cost of the extra nutes.

Went right to hydro.
Looked for an easy flavor that I could do a soil side-by-side with.
Simple, in this case, was DWC. 5 gallon bucket, PH meter, TDS meter, air pump, net pots and hydro nutes. Almost double the yield as the same volume of un-nuted FFOF.

Downside?
Well, it's noisy and require a steep learning curve, and constant monitoring. But the deal breaker was it's alternate name, "Death Without Cause".
Was very impressive for the first 3 grows, and then . . .
Came out one morning to 2 dead plants out of 4. They were all jus' peachy the day before. My 100% gain evaporated overnight! :(

So, dialed it down a little.
I see coco as solid state hydro. Found that there are different suppliers with variable quality. (Amount of sea salt, dirt and rocks, PH anomalies. All kine sing. )
Still yield was impressive. about 80% more than dirt n fert.

Coco is great! Until it isn't.
For transferring nutes to roots, it's hard to beat. I like the scent and it's difficult to over-water. Not impossible, just difficult. (Don't ask) :)

If kept too moist it can be Fungus gnat central.
Before I learned the value of dryer sheets, tropical Fungus gnats overwhelmed my first coco grows.
The biggest hassle turned out to be "salting" near the end of flower.

Then 2 things happened. One of my patients died which cut my weight needs in half.
And Hawaii raised the plant count to 10 per patient. :)

I'm a medical grower only, and there's no point in risking crop failure or overworking to harvest more than I actually need.
So, went back to FFOF and plain water.

I'm not "anti-fert," but see no point in buying and supplying something that my girls don't ask me for and do jus' fine without, yah?

Jus' 2 cents from an old fart,
Aloha,
Weeze

I like your style! You said you like to experiment, so I hope you don't mind if I share some thoughts on your post. I'm sorry one of your patients died, that's the worst. Being your quantity is not needed, then I'd say focus on quality! Being that you like to experiment then you should understand they can't ask for what they haven't had... correct? What do you do with ffof after you harvest?

I'm not trying to push the way I grow on you nor do I have any affiliation with anything sold.
The reason I suggest this style of grow is because it's truly better and if you know something that's cheaper and better then share it!
But it's seriously an uphill battle for years, constantly being bashed, ignored...etc

But since you like to experiment try this amended soil for just one of your plants.
I'm positive you'll love it!
And when you harvest you pull the plant and drop a new one in.... that's it, no mixing, no adding, Just leave it alone. After your third cycle you top dress. After about two years, you don't have to top dress anymore. Talk about keeping it simple
dy leave it alone
What do you have to lose?
If you need more convincing tell me what's in ffof and I'll explain what they do and why what I suggest is a better source

 

[Wee Zard]

I feel you.
And if I had a bag of that soil, I'd test it side by side with the FFOF, just for the fun of it. As for increasing my yield?
More than enough is too much, yah?

Aloha,
Weeze

 

[brazel]

I feel you.
And if I had a bag of that soil, I'd test it side by side with the FFOF, just for the fun of it. As for increasing my yield?
More than enough is too much, yah?
Aloha,
Weeze

Yeah! More than enough is too much. I only grow twice a year, I have no need to grow year round.
Sorry if I was misunderstood, I said since you no longer need quantity focus on quality. That being said I am in no way shape or form saying what you do grow is not quality.

https://merryjane.com/culture/what-is-living-soil
Check this article.

You can get a bag mixed up fresh for 25 to 45 bucks from kis organics or buildasoil ... shipping might be crazy to Hawaii

Anyway, I won't mention this again.
The reason I did is cause you said like to experiment
Cheers

 

[Perception]

Following up on my original supporting post about FFOF:

I think that for a new grower who is looking for simplicity, FFOF is a great starting point primarily because it works, and you can go buy it at your local garden center same-day. There are many methods that are probably superior, but for ease of use and accessibility, FFOF works. It's not perfect, but I found it to be convenient on my first couple grows as a beginner.

 

[brazel]

It's coco natural I'm not mixing soil I'm using cana a+b can boost yet to use the boost as its only 2 days into flowering in veg I feed them with every watering but I'm not sure in flowering when to feed them when they duh there next watering I'm in add just p.h water at 5.5 5.8 I think I have been over feeding so just water till I feel they need it

To be honest it's hard to tell with bottle nutrients generally they list the minimal amount of nutrients so you don't know what the actual amount is. it could say minimal 2% and it could actually be at 8%.
I'd aim for 6.0 ph.
Another thing to consider is when you use bottled nutrients you're force feeding it, you're telling it what the plant needs. And with a properly amended soil the plant takes what it needs.

 

[brazel]

Following up on my original supporting post about FFOF:

I think that for a new grower who is looking for simplicity, FFOF is a great starting point primarily because it works, and you can go buy it at your local garden center same-day. There are many methods that are probably superior, but for ease of use and accessibility, FFOF works. It's not perfect, but I found it to be convenient on my first couple grows as a beginner.

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time you can order amended soil and have it shipped to your house in probably 3 days. Another thing to consider is when you're going to learn something you should strive for the best and not waste your time on an inferior method.
Here's an example I don't know if it's the best example but I'll throw it out anyway... when I teach people how to snowboard I tell them spend equal amount of time riding regular and switch because it's easier to learn before you have a preference let's say you're riding regular for years and then you try riding switch but it's difficult and you already know how to ride regular so majority of the time people will stick to what they know and what they can do. Cheers

 

[brazel]

Yes I agree its 4 days into flowering no more feed just water I will feed it more into flowering when I feel they need it they doing very good but I have made mistakes I'm still learning I'm a newbie

No worries bro everybody starts as a newbie and mistakes are the best way to learn. Eventually you'll learn how you're doing from the plant, they communicate and will rely on you for help. When planting multiple plants and in amended soil they'll use mycelium to communicate. When one is low on nutrients the other plants can send nutrients through this. The problem with synthetic fertilizers or nutrients whatever you want to call it is it destroys the mycelium, and furthermore it's all water soluble which also destroys it, typically microbes will break it up.
People will argue with this left and right but the truth is none of these companies would be around if it wasn't for cannabis. Let's take a look at Agriculture and farming and all the food they have to produce for billions of people around the world. None of them use any bottled nutrient you can find at a grow shop... Makes you think huh?

 

[brazel]

What's amended soil can you transfer during flowering

Amended soil is when you add all the minerals and nutrients into the soil at the beginning. Then all you have to do is use water there's no pH no flushing no cal mag no deficiencies when properly built. And you use the soil over and over and over and every cycle you grow it gets better and better and better. Basically you harvest a plant and drop another one in there

 

[Weedywillie]

Fox farm is nothing but shit so is coco and every other piece of so called advice given to you!
https://buildasoil.com/collections/soil/products/buildasoil-potting-soil-version-3-0

Buy this all you'll need is water through the entire grow, sorry if you guys feel offended that was not my point I don't mean to discourage or offend any one of you

 

[brazel]

I'm not sure what the reply is? If it's for my bad choice of words I apologize for that or maybe it's cuz I said this soil needs water only and ffof you can use water only too but you can also use water only for Miracle-Gro and that doesn't make it good.

 

[Organikz]

Why do people get mad about guys like us calling out the hydro heaven on bullshit? We just want you to be the wolves...not sheep. I can make a better mix than FFOF for pennies on the dollar with my eyes closed in a house with a mouse....on a box with a fox....

The wolf studies his prey. Learns it's habits. Then you can hunt for yourself.

 

[brazel]

Why do people get mad about guys like us calling out the hydro heaven on bullshit? We just want you to be the wolves...not sheep. I can make a better mix than FFOF for pennies on the dollar with my eyes closed in a house with a mouse....on a box with a fox....

The wolf studies his prey. Learns it's habits. Then you can hunt for yourself.

Haha that's awesome!

Sometimes I feel like going to the infirmary page and answering just about question with the same most truthful answer.... cause your bottled nutes!

Every once in awhile someone will get it and give it a try and that's rad!

 

[Organikz]

I will break down 4 ingredients for amendments....thats all you need.
malted barley flour
Kelp meal
Neem meal
Calcium carbonate (Calcite or oyster shell flour)

Everything else is just more words to tickle your fancy. These are 4 amendments you need point blank. Cottonseed meal, alfalfa meal, name anything and I'll show you where it overlaps. It's all for wow factor. They study consumers. You are impressed by this big list of useless ingredients.

Belieb it or not the owner of KiS organics is doing a malted barley only mix. He's not telling you that though. He sells all this shit and his personal amendment mix...malted barley flour...thats all

That crazy son of a gun @brazel is sounding less crazy now?

 

[Cityfarmin]

Correct, I offered to pay for this so you can see and be the judge... what do you have to lose?

If your buying I'll try it out, I'm in FFOF and my girls are happy as a pig in mud, I'm new to growing but I'm far from closed minded! Wanna send that gift card this way???