Aquaponics - Let fish be your Nutrient!

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Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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Your description of pacu sounds exactly like what the doctor ordered- even in the homestead security department. All I need now is a moat!

Cheese = salty = no bueno for aquaponics, thanks for the heads up.
I don't think it's the salt, I think it's the stuff IN the milk-based products, at least, that's what gives me pause, ya dig? I would feed them eggs all day long, chicken, veggies, fruits, even garlic for sick or immune-depressed fish, but nothing milk-based.

Preacher, if the algae eater looks like this, then it's a Chinese algae eater and the fish shop guy was wrong (not uncommon, I've worked a few shops, too in my day).
Chinese algae eater



But, if it looks more like this, then you're fine with it (though it may be a more delicate fish in terms of husbandry).

Siamese Algae Eater



Now, as for those eggshells, honestly, they just don't comprise enough CaCO3 *or* surface area to do much of anything for you. Use that tap water (you discovered yours has temporary hardness, test before and after boiling to see what I mean), but I would NOT use distilled! It cannot buffer (called alkalinity, aka resistance to pH shift), whereas your tap water can and will buffer. A mix of RO and tap would probably be best here for you, otherwise I must suggest again using something like dolomite, crushed coral (less desirable, IMO, for ecological reasons) or coral sand. Hell, you could use sand bought at Home de Pot if it's calcareous. An easy way to tell is to take a small container of vinegar and pour it on the sand. If it bubbles and fizzles, it's calcareous, if not, it's likely silicate-based (bad for sharks, skates and rays!)(but you're not growing sharks, skates or rays :D ). Alternatively, I bet garden variety dolomite lime, prilled or otherwise, would work just fine here and I know factually that it does indeed raise both pH and alkalinity within a relatively short period of time (minutes to hours, depending on water parameters).
 
ThePreacher

ThePreacher

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Thanks!

Yeah, it looks more like the one in the second photo, has a very distinctive stripe, no spots.

So my system has something in it that makes the pH buffer down, dolomite lime have a pH of 7.
The lime will not "fix" what is already buffering my pH down, but it would buffer the pH up.
So I would probably see a rise in pH, but not as much as 7 ?

Do you know if algae makes the pH go down ?
Have a lot of it building up in the drain where the pots are sitting.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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Good! Then you have a Siamese algae eater and it should be just fine with your goldies. :)


The DL typically sends water columns up towards a pH of 8 IME, but you are correct, you have something that is forcing the pH down.

However, if you're using distilled water (a huge no-no in my book, it *must* have some mineral content for living things, and RO or even RO/DI water is not pure water, whereas distilled is pure water), then there is nothing other than the activity of the fish waste and microbes that's causing any changes in pH, the water itself has absolutely zero buffering capacity (alkalinity). The DL should help balance this out, but so should using a mix of tap and RO water.

Now, I'm rereading your initial post, and it appears that really the only media you have in the system is the hydroton itself, am I reading that correctly? If so, IIRC that does tend to cause upward shifts until it's been fully rinsed, etc (hydroton is something I've never used).

Algal growth may indeed cause pH to go downward, but I haven't really experienced any huge shifts that I know were caused by microalgal growths.

I would get a stocking or knee high, put maybe a cup of DL in it and hang that in your reservoir. Expect PPM to go up, but if you're only using the fish waste to feed, then you shouldn't be too terribly concerned with EC/PPM levels, I honestly think it's the nitrogen cycle that you should only be concerning yourself with at this point. If you were to start adding nutrients, depending on the type (organic vs chemical salts) then you may wish to concern yourself with it, but otherwise I'm wondering if you get that water too clean (low EC) then what do the plants have to eat?

You might also want to get some leonardite in the system, though my only experience with it in an aquatic setting is planted tanks, and that experience is commercial only, not as a hobbyist growing my own stuff, but rather setting up display tanks for the shop.

Did you know that folks who do planted tanks adjust their pH using CO2? These systems typically need a lower pH range, in the 6s. Look at plantedtank.net.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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What's the difference between aquaponics and a planned tank? CO² would raise pH, correct? What else does it do?
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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No, it lowers pH, and that's what they use it for.

Not a whole lot of difference between ponics and a planted tank except for what's being grown. Obviously, many aquatic plants would have different tolerances depending on where they evolved, though.

Wanna see some amazing shit? Look up the Amano Takashi planted tanks. And the Dutch systems are pretty fucking amazing, too.
 
ThePreacher

ThePreacher

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I was told by several hydroponic growers that a PPM over 700 would burn many plants, especially Cannabis.
It was over 1200 at one point, that is why I have used distilled water.

I am going to buy a RO kit, looking at one with built in Cal/Mag filter:
http://www.advancedwaterfilters.com...rs/tap-master-artesian-hydrogardener-pro.html

Hydroton is inert so I don't think it would touch the pH.

DL and Leonardite, ..what kind of stores to pick these items up would you recommend ?
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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Fish shops, maybe?

Were those hydroponic growers using chemical salt-based nutrients, I'm wondering? I'm kind of surprised that they're giving a number as though it's an absolute, because I've found that it's very dependent on what strain you're growing.

Once you 'learn' the plants and the fish, you'll stop worrying too much about numbers unless there's a problem.
 
ThePreacher

ThePreacher

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haha! The guy in the fish store just scratched his head, dolomite lime ? ... QUE ???
I even translated to spanish for the poor guy: cal dolimita, si .. ? noo....
Better luck tomorrow. For a temporary fix I threw in 6 liter of the bottle water with the least chlorine I could find. 0.67 mg / l. Not to shabby.
pH up to 5.7
Think I need to take a look at the BlueLab Guardian PPM/EC meter, when I accidental pushed it all the way under water the PPM raced from 520 to 640! PoW!
 
sonofdust

sonofdust

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You may find this site helpful for feeding the fish and plants theaquaponicstore.com
As far as the hydroton go, you can rinse, boil, bleach and H2O2 it, The ph will still climb.
 
ThePreacher

ThePreacher

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Update time, ..sorry, no photos this time around.

Lets take the bad first..

I have Fungus Gnats, first time any bugs / pest have crept into my grow.
First I thought it was Thrips, but the flying bastards I see now, plus the small larvae I see on the growing medium it can't be anything else. Could be a combination, but I like to stay positive!

Looks like grow shops in Barcelona took out vacation at the same darn time, running around like a mad man trying to get hold of Mosquito Dunks or bacillus thuringiensis israelensis type.

I have heard that this is something that can be used with AP, as it will not damage the fish.
Anybody know if garlic, chili cayenne pepper, neem extract will harm the fish ?
Did a foliar spray with this and the plant did not seem to care, was thinking I could make a new batch, stop the waterflow and just spray a good portion of it right down in the medium, let it work for an hour and start the water again, any thought ?

I read on a cannabis forum that Ca, Mn and also P deficiencies signs could very well just be the Gnat larvae, while they eat on the roots, they also feast in the nutrients that are in the medium. Pretty pointless adding stuff, and feed the gnats more.

Flipped to 12/12 yesterday as well. As we need to move out of this apartment in around 48 days, it is going to be close.

Temp and RH is fine when lights are off, but when they start the RH raises up to the high 60, even pushing 70+, I do have a portable aircon, turned it to dehumid, let see how it works out.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Your night time humidity is fine. Things look great, and fungus gnat larvae eat dead roots as much as live ones. Caps bennies keep them at bay, that might be aa best bet. There may be other beneficial bacteria lacks that addresses fungus gnats, but I am not aware of them. I would definitely not recommend any of the systemic remedies, like cedar oil. I bet that would piss your fish right off!
 
ThePreacher

ThePreacher

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Your night time humidity is fine. Things look great, and fungus gnat larvae eat dead roots as much as live ones. Caps bennies keep them at bay, that might be aa best bet. There may be other beneficial bacteria lacks that addresses fungus gnats, but I am not aware of them. I would definitely not recommend any of the systemic remedies, like cedar oil. I bet that would piss your fish right off!


70 high RH during flowering is fine ? Que ? :confused:

I reason why I think the pest are why my plants seem to suffer is because when I noticed the first flying bug was around the same time the first plant was showing issues. Then followed more flying beasts and soon followed the other plants. If there was a deficiency in the water, would not all the plants show the same issues ?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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70 high RH during flowering is fine ? Que ? :confused:

I reason why I think the pest are why my plants seem to suffer is because when I noticed the first flying bug was around the same time the first plant was showing issues. Then followed more flying beasts and soon followed the other plants. If there was a deficiency in the water, would not all the plants show the same issues ?

At 80F, I run between 70-75% RH, seriously. For sealed rooms with CO² supplementation, it's the business!

Someone long ago must have told you to be afraid of water on your plants. What a crock! Where do most pot plants live? IN THE TROPICS! Don't feel bad; everyone else heard the same stupid story from some hydrostore kiddie, too. Doesn't make it a Damn bit more correct...

The way to help ensure your plants don't have problems is to move plenty of air around them.
 
ThePreacher

ThePreacher

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Hehe, thanks son!

Was just informed on another forum that one dude used Gnatrol WDG in a Aquaponics system, did not harm the fish at all. He used it straight into the grow medium, once a week for three weeks. No sign of Fungus Gnats after that.

Now it is just the hazzle of finding it in Spain, bah..
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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I would not expect Gnatrol or any other bacterial innoculant to cause harm to the fish. Neem I would not be so ready to use, but other plant essential oils may be ok. This is an area where I have zero experience. I know that garlic is commonly used to treat fish for their own disease and other issues, helps build up their immunities. My own experience with these treatments is that they don't work (for the bugs I'm trying to get rid of).
haha! The guy in the fish store just scratched his head, dolomite lime ? ... QUE ???
I even translated to spanish for the poor guy: cal dolimita, si .. ? noo....
Better luck tomorrow. For a temporary fix I threw in 6 liter of the bottle water with the least chlorine I could find. 0.67 mg / l. Not to shabby.
pH up to 5.7
Think I need to take a look at the BlueLab Guardian PPM/EC meter, when I accidental pushed it all the way under water the PPM raced from 520 to 640! PoW!
Tell him, "Adonde vas? A carajo?" Sorry, just kidding! Don't tell him that.

How about aragonite? Find a fish shop that sells salties, they should have crushed coral or SOMETHING that addresses alkalinity in the water column.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
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Lol, I fully expect to kill a few dozen innocent fish while I get my system stabilized. I'm just hoping they're big enough to be worth eating when I do!

So I'm going to get a 430-560 gallon stock tank (2' high x either 6 or 7' diameter) for cold water fish this winter. This will drain via gravity to a settling tank that gives me some control over how much biosolids are in the system. This settling tank will also house a water to water heat exchanger, to cool my chiller circuit in winter and to warm up the incoming water to about 60-65F. This will then drain via gravity (over a lip, for reasons to be explained shortly) to the biofilter tank. After percolating through that, it will then run over another lip into any of the RDWC I want to hook up to it before going to a 1' x 6' sump tank, at the very 'bottom' of the whole system.

The settling tank, biofilter and of course fish tank will all be designed to retain most of their water in case of a loss of power, hence the need for a 'lip' for the water to flow over to leave each of these. The total excess water capacity moving from place to place in the system will be less than the capacity of the dump tank, to prevent a FLOOD of potentially biblical proportions!

Just yesterday I ordered a Flotec 'Intellipump' sump pump with a built in sump sensor and switch to sit in this sump tank and pump the water back up to the fish tank, to repeat the cycle. It is 1790gph, but since it's pumping water up some 10 feet it will push much less than that.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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I'm currently discussing tea-bagging pacu with some of my old aquatics acquaintances. The pacu present in Swedish waters really turns our 'knowledge' about this fish upside down, right onto its head.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
I'm currently discussing tea-bagging pacu with some of my old aquatics acquaintances. The pacu present in Swedish waters really turns our 'knowledge' about this fish upside down, right onto its head.

Since I'm running a cold water tank this winter, I'm going to be really interested in what you find out! Too bad flounder is a saltie...
 
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