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Batches Won't Shatter Up!

Discussion in 'Concentrates & Processing' started by tonyOmerta, May 8, 2015.

  1. Hello, I have been browsing these forums for some time now but have not been able to find a solution to my shatter issue as of yet so I created an account here at THCfarmer in hopes of finding someone who can help me out. I have six ounces of BHO that was blasted and never purged completely by a friend and I am attempting to turn it into shatter with little to no success. The batch was made from fresh trim and came out a nice light yellow but very waxy. So far I have winterized the entire batch with Everclear at a ratio of 800 ML / per Oz of BHO.

    Yesterday I attempted to get one oz to shatter up. First I split it in two 14gram batches. Then I put one 14g patty in a vac chamber I made at home and placed that on top of a nuwave2 induction cooker. After straining the waxes and lipids from the bho I poured the dewaxed solution into a pyrex dish which I sat on top of a pan that was on my nuwave. I heated the nuwave up and used an IR gun to make sure the everclear never went over 105 degrees or under 88 degrees. When the everclear was all evaporated out I scraped it up with a razor, put it on parchment paper and threw it in the vac chamber. After this point is where i think I am ruining the batch. I slowly heat the patty up until it starts to really bubble up and turn liquid then I turn on my vacuum and lowered the heat to 115. I left it on vac and at 115 degrees for about 12 hours and when I checked in the morning only the edges of the patty resembled anything close to shatter. The vast majority of the patty was just clear sticky messy oil and I cannot get it to harden no matter how much I experiment with it. I am afraid of ruining the other few ounces I have. Can anybody offer me some advice as to how to make this stuff stable? I would even be willing to pay money for a good set of directions as long as the person who provides them is a good reputable memeber of the community.
     
  2. I can post pics of my set up and oils anytime if needed btw
     
  3. NaturalTherapy

    NaturalTherapy Lighthouse Supporter

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    Was the cannabis grown organically? Which strain?

    I'm not an expert by any means I've learned from a few friends that some strains have more lipids and waxes in the resin, and that organically grown cannabis will generally have higher levels as well, causing them to be what is called "sap" out here.

    So for instance when you rub a livin plant, a strain with a greasy feel to the resin will be harder to get to a shatter consistency, whereas a strain with a sticky feel to the resin will shatter up easier, even if organically grown. I'm told gorilla glue 4 is notoriously hard to get to a shatter state.

    For whatever reason it seems cannabis grown in coco/rock wool with synthetic nutrients are easier to get to a shatter state as well.

    The chemistry side of the process regarding temperature and duration and such is beyond my scope of knowledge, so likely someone else will cover that for you.
     
    tonyOmerta and jumpincactus like this.
  4. thanks for the info brotha the herb im using is out door and I am unsure of the strain unfortunately. I'm pretty sure the the major errors I'm making are on the chemistry side of the process though.
     
  5. bump
     
  6. I make shatter in my oven at 96 degrees and a full vac. Imo winterizing makes it not as easy to get to a shatter constancy. We just inline dewax and then it goes straight in the vac oven at 96 degrees and a full vacuum for 3-5 days depending a few factors. We only winterize for food grade runs. Imo dewaxed shatter has a better terp profile vs winterized, tastes better.

    Imo I wouldn't go above 100 degrees if your looking to make shatter. I personally like 96. Strains/material makes a little bit of a difference on the constancy, I've noticed some stuff will be pull-snap and some stuff will break like glass depending on if its trim/kif/nug/fresh frozen/live resin and different strains too.
     
  7. Outdoor material never really hardens up for me but indoor almost always will. I think it has to do with the different radiation from the sun and grow lights and their effect on resin formation.
     
    tonyOmerta likes this.
  8. Some of my outdoor stuff will get shattery, my blue dream does. Dream queen has more of a pull snap in my experience.

    IMG_0531.JPG IMG_0535.JPG
     
    tonyOmerta likes this.
  9. I have some of the everclear solution in a pyrex dish on a heat pad set to 100 degrees with a box fan next to it to help it evap faster. I'm going to leave it like that untill i wake up tomorrow n see what it looks like. Any advice on what to do after that to make it stable or any advice on another way to evap this everclear out to help produce a shattery consistency would be greatly appreciated.
     
  10. actually lowering the heating pad to 80 degrees before i go to sleep
     
  11. Myco

    Myco

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    I'll share my experience. Might be long winded, bare with me.

    There seems to be a lot of varying opinions on this - most of the oil-heads say it's all strain dependant, and/or growing method/environment (hardness/softness of end product).

    In my area people have this misconception that the highest quality shatter should shatter like glass - and refer to this glass-like shatter as being "stable". So I constantly am dealing with complaints or praise on the hardness of my shatter... or... "stability"... :rolleyes:

    Anywho...

    When I first started blasting a few years ago... every single batch would come out like a rock. But I felt my oil didn't have as much flavor as it should - and started digging into more research to refine my process as more and more folks picked up the hobby. At the time, I was using much higher temps, primarily during initial blasting/boil off due to some misinformation... like 120-140... though my equipment at the time wasn't able to keep very consistent temps, but around there. Too high nonetheless. Under vacuum I was keeping consistently low, 95-115f at the highest.

    So time went on and more info was available... and I realized I was probably losing flavor due to those high boil-off temps... So the next time I harvested and had a bunch of material to play with and better equip for consistent temps, I kept my blasting temps low - 95-100.

    Now my oil was coming out softer... like taffy, but still able to "break" to some degree. But the flavor and aroma was fucking phenomenal.

    I assumed the softer finished shatter was simply strain or environment dependant (even though methods/environment hadn't really changed lol)... and kept doing my thing. Some batches would turn out a bit harder than others, but for the most part NOTHING like how rock hard my oil was when I first started.

    Fast forward to now, many harvests and strains passed... not much has changed... I still use the same low temps (though with more attention on low temps), same long, thin-film purge. My oil will usually be fairly rigid, sometimes more pliable than other batches... sometimes soft and a PITA to handle... but NOTHING like that rock hard shatter years ago it seems.

    And coincidentally - I just had a buddy sort of complaining that a batch that finished yesterday was semi-sticky/taffy like, and not as "STABLE"... so it got me curious...

    Last night I took a couple zips for a test run - same exact material from the soft/taffy-like batch I just spoke of... only 4 days since blasting the first batch. Decided I would jack up my temps just for shits on the intial blast/boil-off, and get my Pyrex to 130f...

    As we speak, I have a half oz of near-rock hard oil under purging under vacuum.

    Nothing was different aside from the higher initial temps. Same material/strain, same butane, same vacuum purge temps, etc etc.

    Though I do feel strain/growing method/environment/age and storage of material does play a role in the rigidity or softness of the end product... I can't help but come to the conclusion that abnormally high intial blasting/boil off temps will give you that ROCK hard shatter - though at the expense of less overall terpene %.

    Don't get me wrong, usually my shatter will "break" at normal room temps and be fine to handle when running my normal low temp process... However, the difference between these two runs of the same exact material tells me that heat during the initial process can play a significant role in the rigidity of the final product, if you so wish.

    Call it anecdotal, but that's my experience. I might fuck around a bit more with some smaller runs, just to prove a point to some of my local oil-bros that want that "muhfuckin rock hard 'STABLE' shatter bruh..."

    So many god damn differing opinions on some of these things eh? Lol...
     
  12. I've read that de carbed oil will never harden up maybe the oil prior to u getting it was de carbed some how?
     
    tonyOmerta likes this.
  13. thats a possibility but wouldnt decarbed oil be dark this was a golden color...it actually still had some butane in it.
     
  14. Ahhh most proberbly not de carbed then Lol god knows man...I've just dome a small run of super lemon trim and it wasn't as crispy dry as usual it's waxed up lovely not to a crumble tho like a really thick wax and its super terpy too the tastiest I've done so far I've kept the same temps and everything so it could be a starting material factor? Its all trial and error man I suppose that's all part of the parcel Lol:cigar:
     
  15. Its got water and alcohol left in it, As i mentioned in introduction thread, Needs to be spread thin and heat/vac'ed.

    Also ditch the water batch next time butane absorbs moister from the air and a bowl of water under neath is a great way to water down your oil, which in turn creates an emulsion which is a pain in the ass.. :D
     
    dabarino and tonyOmerta like this.
  16. Good fresh material starts out as a carboxylic acid, which is brittle at room temperature.

    It can be softened by the presence of residual solvent, high levels of monoterpenes acting as a solvent, and by decarboxylation.

    A good -29.5" Hg vacuum purge, below 120F reliably produces an aromatic shatter for us.

    A stellar question, is whether shatter consistency is more important to you than aroma and flavor. Once the solvent is gone, the monoterpenes at elevated levels still keep extractions soft.

    We like a happy medium, where the monoterpenes are reduced to the point that the extract is aromatic and tasty, without being harsh on the lungs.
     
    SwellDay and tonyOmerta like this.
  17. It doesnt have to be shatter exactly, pull n snap is fine too. I guess the pull n snap has more monoterps right?

    I actually came up with a successful way of making shatter every time last night and tried it out a few times to make sure i had it down.
    I just winterized with Everclear, strained the waxes and then pour into a pyrex dish set ontop of a pan on top of a nuwave2 induction cooker at 100F with a box fan pointed at it and a breathable mesh cloth over the pyrex. If do small 1 gram - 3 gram batches the everclear will cook away in less than an hour n half. Once the everclear is gone i let it sit at 100F for another 30 min and then poke it all over with my dabber to make sure its hard enough to take the impact of the titanium point. When my dabber no longer made a messy impression on the oil I scraped it up with razor blades and then pressed it all together and put it in the vac chamber at 100F. Shit came out really dank. its a glass amber pull n snap. Still has plenty of flavor too compared to the oil it was made out of.
     
    Graywolf likes this.
  18. G'Day,

    I know this is an outdated post but I have read through all the responses and nobody has provided an actual answer to your problem. I'm going to briefly explain the solution to your problem so other people who read this who may have a similar issue can correctly fix their problem.

    If your BHO was not correctly purged, you will need to do the entire extraction process from the beginning. If you fail to do this, you risk seriously damaging your lungs from smoking a contaminated product.

    To get your product to be more like shatter and less like goo, you need to remove as much impurities as possible and you need to allow the evaporating process to be done as slow as possible while maintaining a constant LOW HEAT. This is the key to making the product glass like and clear.

    This method, you will use isopropyl 99%

    1. Freeze your tainted contaminated BHO and your 99% for a day or two
    2. Place desired amount of BHO into a jar and cover with 99%
    3. Allow the BHO to COMPLETELY dissolve into the 99%
    4. Place the 99% dissolved BHO into the freezer for a day or two
    5. Take out of freezer and strain with a filter of your choice
    6. Pour the strained 99% into a dish
    7. Allow the 99% to evaperate under LOW HEAT for several hours
    8. Scrape product onto non stick paper of your choice
    9. Place in freezer for a few mins
    10. You can repeat steps 4 and 5 several times for a higher quality product

    Cha-Ching. You now have a safe contaminant free correctly purged concentrate which should shatter if flicked. Keep in mind, to correctly make the consistency of shatter the purging process MUST be done with a low consistent heat throughout the entire purging process. If the temp fluctuates you will no longer get shatter, you will get goo, sap oil bla bla bla

    I hope this helps.