Bi Directional Flow Question?

[Herb Forester]

We typically make a cotton candy extraction and run our water bath at ~70F <85F and during recovery, flood our column jackets with 150F water.

Just to clarify, is everything you mentioned above relevant to passive methods? I thought pump-vacuum is necessary for a consistency that dry? And do you have a sampling valve or something for the 'heads' pulled early for museum work?

 

[Graywolf]

How do you "take a sample" do you close the ball valve with the column still pressurized? And scrap the collection pot then re vacuum the bottom half?

Yes

 

[Graywolf]

Just to clarify, is everything you mentioned above relevant to passive methods? I thought pump-vacuum is necessary for a consistency that dry? And do you have a sampling valve or something for the 'heads' pulled early for museum work?

The WolfWurx Mk IVC and VC can be run passively or actively by turning valves and PID.

The lower collection pot can be isolated with valves and removed while the rest of the system is still pressurized. The collection pot and columns can also be recovered and changed separately.

To collect the bragging rights quality sample, I simply close off the collection pot from the rest of the system, recover it as cotton candy, and harvest it. I then reinstall the pot, vacuum it down, and resume extracting the balance.

 

[dabarino]

We typically make a cotton candy extraction and run our water bath at ~70F <85F and during recovery, flood our column jackets with 150F water.

does it something like this?

GW

6-27-13

"Depending on what you are extracting the oil for, you can vary the recovery pot temperature from ambient to 212F. As the temperature increases, the oil becomes more decarboxylated and looser, and the plant sugars caramelize, darkening them.

Here is a picture of oil extracted at 85F, showing how blonde it starts out as carboxylic acid shatter."

 

[dabarino]

i think i may go with this set up.. essentially its just a slightly modded mkIII terpenator.... @Graywolf any special tips for running this passively?
other then the 3 column volumes you mentioned.

 

[Graywolf]

No special techniques. Pull a good vacuum before injecting. Keep the collection pot cold during flooding and no more than about 110F on recovery.

A Mk III has a dip tube, so can't be inverted to re-flood.

Hard to reliably make cotton candy without a view port in the lid, so as to see the exact timing of "now", where you switch from recovery to high vacuum and inflate the puddle. With active you can watch the ice ring for clues, but with passive there isn't one.

You can compensate some by weighing, guessing, and starting the high vacuum slightly early, which means you need a vacuum pump suitable for pumping LPG vapors. We used a Vaccon venturi vacuum on the WolfWurx Terpenators and discharged into the ventilation system.

When making cotton candy it is necessary to drop the collection temperature below about ~85F, which dramatically slows down passive recovery, unless you also drop the recovery tank temperature using something like a dry ice and alcohol bath.

 

[Graywolf]

does it something like this?

GW

6-27-13

"Depending on what you are extracting the oil for, you can vary the recovery pot temperature from ambient to 212F. As the temperature increases, the oil becomes more decarboxylated and looser, and the plant sugars caramelize, darkening them.

Here is a picture of oil extracted at 85F, showing how blonde it starts out as carboxylic acid shatter."View attachment 674667

Yeah, that................ One of the very first done in a Mk III run actively.

 

[dabarino]

after reading through skunk pharm again and a few other places i think i have a lot better understanding of your cotton candy technique now... could a person use a cold trap(dry ice alcohol) and reg vac pump in place of the LPG vac pump or is there to much butane left in the system for the cold trap to catch

 

[Graywolf]

after reading through skunk pharm again and a few other places i think i have a lot better understanding of your cotton candy technique now... could a person use a cold trap(dry ice alcohol) and reg vac pump in place of the LPG vac pump or is there to much butane left in the system for the cold trap to catch

I developed the technique using a AC rotary vane vacuum pump, that I pumped the exhaust out doors using a garden hose. The butane doesn't quickly dilute the crankcase, but if the pump isn't NEMA 7, you have a potential fire hazard.

 

[dabarino]

thanks @Graywolf ... your knowledge and willingness to help is outstanding! I appreciate all the help

 

[Graywolf]

thanks @Graywolf ... your knowledge and willingness to help is outstanding! I appreciate all the help

You're welcome! Please keep it going by paying forward!

 

[dabarino]

no worries there.. i pass on what i can to whomever needs it!

 

[DabbyDevin]

No special techniques. Pull a good vacuum before injecting. Keep the collection pot cold during flooding and no more than about 110F on recovery.

A Mk III has a dip tube, so can't be inverted to re-flood.

Hard to reliably make cotton candy without a view port in the lid, so as to see the exact timing of "now", where you switch from recovery to high vacuum and inflate the puddle. With active you can watch the ice ring for clues, but with passive there isn't one.

You can compensate some by weighing, guessing, and starting the high vacuum slightly early, which means you need a vacuum pump suitable for pumping LPG vapors. We used a Vaccon venturi vacuum on the WolfWurx Terpenators and discharged into the ventilation system.

When making cotton candy it is necessary to drop the collection temperature below about ~85F, which dramatically slows down passive recovery, unless you also drop the recovery tank temperature using something like a dry ice and alcohol bath.

What do you mean by "Cotten candy"

 

[Graywolf]

What do you mean by "Cotten candy"

The recovered oil is inflated into foam and dried in that condition.

 

[Dirte Bag]

when i say i "cryo" i mean a simple home made cryo fluid like dry ice and 99% iso rubbing alcohol. it turns into a thick napalm like substance and its suppose to get to about -77 c.. but my temp gun only goes to -38 so im not 100% on my actual temp... i can do a passive recovery at that temp on 2.5 lbs of butane in about 20-25 mins and thats pulling a slight vac on the extractor when im done

Alright, how the hell do we get the "napalm" out of the sleeve!?
Things that haven't worked:
1) gravity
2) drain plug
3) a stick
4) yelling at it

 

[dabarino]

Alright, how the hell do we get the "napalm" out of the sleeve!?
Things that haven't worked:
1) gravity
2) drain plug
3) a stick
4) yelling at it

Hot water is what I use

 

[Dirte Bag]

Hot water is what I use

In what way, precisely? Can you elaborate some? Thanks.

 

[dabarino]

In what way, precisely? Can you elaborate some? Thanks.

Fill the column with hot water(150f) eventually the valve will thaw enough to open it then a short while after that your slurry will start to drain. I only fill my dewaxing sleeve 1/3 full of dry ice and alcohol for just for this reason as well

 

[dabarino]

A Mk III has a dip tube, so can't be inverted to re-flood

can you elaborate a little on inverting it to re flood please?

 

[Graywolf]

How do you "take a sample" do you close the ball valve with the column still pressurized? And scrap the collection pot then re vacuum the bottom half?

You recover as normal and change out the lower tank before running the second extraction.