Bud Density Challange (LIKE A ROCK)

[SAMCRO]

Challange: Finished Buds are too fluffy and or too airy, not dense enough. Some say the buds are not consistant throughout the elbow. The smell is there, tricombs are there, smoke quality is super powerful and knocks you the F out for 8 to 9 hours on some patients. But the bud density isnt there. They want rocks and their not hard enough for some peeps. The dense bud is nice but looks like somebody crushed it or compressed it somehow during the growing or drying and curing process. When I look at the tricombs on the dense product through the microscope they all look crushed and or smashed perhaps tumbled. Not sure for sure. No milk in the dense bud, no amber at all just clear tricombs. It's smokes excellent and some of my friends absolutely love it big time. Here are a few sample pictures. It's the last bud I have right now as a sample to showcase for this topic.

My OG Kush shown smokes killer and wallops like a freight train. The tricombs are on the money but the hardness is not there.

The pictures arent that great but its the best I could get you with the camera I have. Hope the pictures tell the story.

Here are the fast facts:

Indoor Grow Room Sealed Enviroment.
CO2 Burner: 1500 PPM LP.
3 Ton Air Conditioning Frost Box with UV light.
1000 W HPS Bulbs with Adjust A Wings
67 degrees night time temp
80 degree day time temp
100% Canna Coco Medium drain to waste
Heavy 16 Base
Big Bud through week 6
Hammer Head & Moab week 7 and 8
Final Phase
Straight R/O to less than 100 PPM run off flush


Some say I'm not using my CO2 correctly. Some say the light isn't intense enough, some say not enough wind movement in the grow room. Some say I need to kill the CO2 the last 2 weeks when Im flushing. Some say I need to raise the temp during the day to 80-90 degrees with my CO2 Burner, Some say its a genetic thing. Some say I need to defoliate more from week 5 to the finish, some say it's the nutrients, Some say its the way im drying and curing them. WTF? Clients want the dense and rock hard buds and thats what they will get. Your expert advice on harding up my buds is most appreciated. Take a peek and let me know what Im doing wrong in my process. Im open to your suggestions and have my ears and eyes open :bong-hits:

 

[wobbly goblin]

sounds like you got your shit together
sounds like you may need a denser pheno
sounds like you need a more educated clientele

but, wtf? do i know

fwiw

edit to add that the best in the west looks like it's been tumbled

 

[tattoojim]

the dense one looks like it was fed gravity... lot of people still using that stuff..
honestly bro your nug looks better to me...if your peeps want them dense buds, tell them your can pump some poison in there. more light is a option

 

[tattoojim]

wobbly said a denser pheno... i have a lemon og that is hard as nails. the lemon ogs i have ran have all been like that, even under stress. she not the same i know but it has all that you speak of with your og..

 

[treebark1950]

Your set up is on point.

Could be the genetic.

I've had patients ask the same thing. They want denser bud. Well I threw a p in a turkey bag and slowly squeezed the air out of it till it was bunched up together and left it for like 2 or 3 days and then I showed them the exact same p and bam what they were looking for.

Personally they are misinformed but they like what they like.

I only do this for these guys, my other patients understand what quality bud looks and smokes like.

Try a sample and see what they say.

I have since switched strains and don't really have to worry either way...

 

[SAMCRO]

The best in the west looks tumbled to me too. I could be pheno challanged with my OG Kush. When they are finishing weeks 7 throgh 10 they are bulky, heavy and dense. Then when harvest happends the densisty loosens up when we are drying and curing. The smaller bud sites towards the bottom are not dense at harvest, they are fluffy but we throw them into the curing room too. They all add up to me and smoke just as good. They just dont look as good as the top of the muffin.

But when one collective said "you dont use co2?" I said of course we use CO2, they said your not using it correctly, i was blown away. Started second guessing everything in the grow room and drying and curing room methods.

What is gravity? never heard of that one before.

 

[SAMCRO]

Anyone use Gravity with overdrive, boost or hammerhead and moab?

 

[dextr0]

Your set up is on point.

Could be the genetic.

I've had patients ask the same thing. They want denser bud. Well I threw a p in a turkey bag and slowly squeezed the air out of it till it was bunched up together and left it for like 2 or 3 days and then I showed them the exact same p and bam what they were looking for.

Personally they are misinformed but they like what they like.

I only do this for these guys, my other patients understand what quality bud looks and smokes like.

Try a sample and see what they say.

I have since switched strains and don't really have to worry either way...

Dude here is right man. Not only is it an organic way, its also stupidly simple. All your doing is dressing the girl up. She gonna sell, people just have their fetishes.

 

[sdgrower]

Sam,

Are they the exact same cut? IMO yours looks way better. The dispense must be trying to lowball you?

 

[Capulator]

I like yours better too.

Your methods seems good enough. My guess is the pheno is a bit fluffy, unless you are comparing the exact same cut..

Vac seal it after you trim. that will "harden them up" lol.

 

[ir0nLung]

i wouldn't use gravity...it definitely will harden things up, but at what cost?

 

[OctoberDee]

I would say it's genetic but the alar based boosters (gravity) could def be a factor with the larger nug. Alar poisoned buds are harsh and when they are too dry leave a major acrid flavor on your tongue and throat that tastes like it's got chems in it. Not a fan. Yours looks tasty and easier to break and burn. That's the other thing about dense nugs. Sometimes breaking up with your fingers is a lot more work than I'd like, with a dense nug I often end up burning the pieces way too uneven and end up with brown chunks that don't burn but also don't taste good anymore and end up getting wasted. I like when you can pull the calyx from the stem and see all the individual flowers. Yum!

 

[Snowblind]

I would hit the "fluffy" bud first as well. That bud is not fluffy either its plenty dense.

Rock hard nugs smoke like shit as people have stated. They dont burn evenly.

 

[SAMCRO]

sounds like you got your shit together
sounds like you may need a denser pheno
sounds like you need a more educated clientele

but, wtf? do i know

fwiw

edit to add that the best in the west looks like it's been tumbled

I thought I had my shit together. But something always sets you in your place. Always something new to learn each week and everyday. Denser pheno might be right. Giving it one more shot this round and then on to my White and White Fire Run in coco beds.

the dense one looks like it was fed gravity... lot of people still using that stuff..
honestly bro your nug looks better to me...if your peeps want them dense buds, tell them your can pump some poison in there. more light is a option

More light is coming up next round for sure.

Ive told them to smoke the shit first. They smoke it and cant believe how good it is but they say their customers/patients will complain or pass it over because of density.

Your set up is on point.

Could be the genetic.

I've had patients ask the same thing. They want denser bud. Well I threw a p in a turkey bag and slowly squeezed the air out of it till it was bunched up together and left it for like 2 or 3 days and then I showed them the exact same p and bam what they were looking for.

Personally they are misinformed but they like what they like.

I only do this for these guys, my other patients understand what quality bud looks and smokes like.

Try a sample and see what they say.

I have since switched strains and don't really have to worry either way...

I will give this a try next round on the buds that arent as tight.

Dude here is right man. Not only is it an organic way, its also stupidly simple. All your doing is dressing the girl up. She gonna sell, people just have their fetishes.

Fetishes is right. Dont get it sometimes just trying to perfect my growing skills and my methods and be the best I can be for my patients and my collectives. To me the quality has to be there for me to give it to my sick friends and family. They get it first and then then its donated to the others.

Sam,

Are they the exact same cut? IMO yours looks way better. The dispense must be trying to lowball you?

Low balling for sure. Example: Some wanted to to give $2200 to $2400 per elbow on that fluffy crystal bud shown. I know the market is flooded with outdoor in the collectives and people liquidating their inventory and getting out the biz but good lord that just felt wrong at that reimbursement price.

They are not the same cut. Two totally different strains. My cut was grown from seed and never passed out or sold any clones. I try to keep it all in house. The dense bud shown in the photo was bought at a collective to show how dense bud is suppose to look and what people are wanting and raving about. I didnt see it but my friends who rave about this Best in the West deal and some other strains that they love and how they brag about the density. It just looks compressed to me like squashed calyx. Its forsure heavier weight in their nugs. Just trying to give my new clients and patients what they want without sacraficing my quality of the medication. Im not down for poisoning for the sake of getting reimbursed properly.

I like yours better too.

Your methods seems good enough. My guess is the pheno is a bit fluffy, unless you are comparing the exact same cut..

Vac seal it after you trim. that will "harden them up" lol.

Will have to try this vac seal deal. The finished product leaves fast to the patients so I never looked at getting one for long term storage. But now it might be the ticket. Will know forsure the next round of a different strain. Need to try your vitamins next round Capulator. Been eyeballing that goodness for a while now. Be looking for an order soon.

i wouldn't use gravity...it definitely will harden things up, but at what cost?

Not worth it. Almost went to the store to get some today. Have another batch going into week 8 of 10 that Im finishing up thought I would give it a try and see if that fixes the situation. Then got a little scared of ruining a batch on this trial deal. Never used it before, never heard of it before posting this message and thread. Alwasy been a fan of less is more with some fellow growers on this board that truly inspire me to grow bigger and better with less crap in the rez.

I would say it's genetic but the alar based boosters (gravity) could def be a factor with the larger nug. Alar poisoned buds are harsh and when they are too dry leave a major acrid flavor on your tongue and throat that tastes like it's got chems in it. Not a fan. Yours looks tasty and easier to break and burn. That's the other thing about dense nugs. Sometimes breaking up with your fingers is a lot more work than I'd like, with a dense nug I often end up burning the pieces way too uneven and end up with brown chunks that don't burn but also don't taste good anymore and end up getting wasted. I like when you can pull the calyx from the stem and see all the individual flowers. Yum!

I agree with you on this. Rather have a frosty tasty bud thats a little fluffly than and dense toxic mess that burns and tastes harsh. Bottom line is I would rather be accused of fluffy and potent and clean than dense and harsh.

I would hit the "fluffy" bud first as well. That bud is not fluffy either its plenty dense.

Rock hard nugs smoke like shit as people have stated. They dont burn evenly.

Some swear by it and some colletives wont touch it if its not rock hard. Or if they do want it they low ball the crap out of it and you end up just leaving and saying fuck it. I agree with you. Some peeps are stuck in their ways.

 

[Bluenote]

Anyone use Gravity with overdrive, boost or hammerhead and moab?

Gravity is something you want to stay away from , you may get rocks but that's about all the flavor they'll have , along with about a dozen other drawbacks including the fact that it's pure poison.


By the way , if you showed those two to *me* , I'd buy yours every time , I agree with the consensus that the " hard bud" has quite likely been tumbled.

Those folks are blowing smoke up your pants leg , the stuff is sold by *weight* for crying out loud.

 

[tconch]

just vacuum pack your stuff, i saw some that were going around and they make the dense bud in your post look like a bottom stem light fluffy whisp of a nug. if i wasn't told what it was i would not have any idea what it was, you could not identify even a little bit of a leaf

 

[Dr.Pepper]

yup, vacuum packing for the win!

 

[fractal]

Try some Cal/Mag that is the key to getting dense buds.

 

[SAMCRO]

Try some Cal/Mag that is the key to getting dense buds.

I don't think CAL MAG will do this. Because were using RO we always use CAL MAG. This particular batch was on CAL MAG at 5ML per gallon and cut off towards the end so it wouldn't affect flavor. Will post some new photos of this particular phenotype along with some others. Will wait for lights out tonight to show.

I think its a Phenotype problem more than anything else. Vacuum packing may help with the presentation but the buds that are hard as a rock speak loud at the collectives and its hard to ignore. Good smoke and good buds are what people like you and I enjoy and want and I have and provide. But this hard, dense Calyx with no air or space separating between each flower that I'm trying to showcase is not presentable in this photo. I will have to really get up close to show what I'm talking about.

 

[SAMCRO]

Heres some photos from this run. Same phenotype as before which they complained about the bud density being too airy or too fluffy. At week 9 right now. Starting final flushing now to finish up.

First up. OG KUSH.

Next up Special Kush.

:dance