Built my own light rotator- wanna see?

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ttystikk

ttystikk

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From a discussion of lighting theory while explaining the spectrum of Light Emitting Plamsa; I thought this would help explain to people why I so dislike using white walls and white plastic as reflecting surfaces:

If you know how much light you require for optimal growth of your plants it is easy to calculate how much lamps you need. There is one complicating factor, and that is walls. Walls reflect only part of the light, as low as 40-50% depending on the reflective material. When using diffuse reflection materials not all of the light reflected will reach your crop. So there are serious losses at the edges of your grow room. The bigger the grow room, the less the wall effects. One way to solve the problem is to keep your final fixtures closer to the wall than half the distance between fixtures in the room to allow for some more direct light and reflection at the sides to even out the overlap. An adjustable reflector that sends the light down at the wall side can save you a lot of light.*

In other words, this validates my approach to increasing the light actually landing on the canopy surface. A properly designed reflector and canopy edge reflective treatment are essential to achieving the proper distribution and intensity of light, and it stands to intuitive reason that the specific design would be different between a stationary and rotating light source.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Wikipedia:

A master craftsman or master tradesman (sometimes called only master or grandmaster, German: Meister) was a member of a guild. In the European guild system, only masters were allowed to be members of the guild.

An aspiring master would have to pass through the career chain from apprentice to journeyman before he could be elected to become a master craftsman. He would then have to produce a sum of money and a masterpiece before he could actually join the guild. If the masterpiece was not accepted by the masters, he was not allowed to join the guild, possibly remaining a journeyman for the rest of his life.


To all who are looking in on this; let it be known that as of today, I consider myself- you ready for this?- an 'apprentice'. Yeah. Someone who is learning all he can with the hope of someday making a contribution to the craft.

I think this is potentially a good idea- and what I've been spending the last 6 months doing is trying to learn how everyone else does their grows, so I have something objective to compare my results to when I do the head to head testing. This may yet be just another long bark up the wrong tree.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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The Backstory

I realized after I wrote this in Desert Squirrel's trimming and defoliation thread that this experience is why I am still convinced of the value of the light rotator approach:

I saw with great interest your (Desert Squirrel) approach to pruning and defoliation. I wanted to share some techniques I learned long ago, with the hope of seeing how my old approach and the new might work together?

First, I ran only one 1000w HPS bulb in flower at the time, over 12 smaller plants. The Hydrofarm open double parabola style hood was on a rotator of my own design- surprise- and the bulb ran in a circle about 15" above the tops of my plants. I mention this because I feel that one is never sure which environmental factors might be in play to get a given set of results...

To start with, when my rooted clones were about 6" tall, I topped them, and cleaned off the scraggly stuff leftover from the cloning process at the bottom. I left four and only four side buds to grow. As these grew, I often topped the highest one of these as it would try to take over the apical position. I wanted even growth on all four side stems.

Once they got to be about 6" long, I used twine and tied them down more or less horizontally, using open loops so that I could easily reposition the tiedowns later. I used duct tape to tape the twine to the sides of the soil buckets I was using, 5 gallon nursery cans.

After a week or two, I would then top each of these four branches, as well as cleaning up the minor inner buds near the mainstem. The aim was to provide two to four budding/growing sites on each of these four side stems.

Another week or two later, I would reposition the twine loops so as to keep the plant growing more outwards than upwards. The aim was to create a plant about 15-18" tall from the soil surface, and about 2 feet across at this point.

The final prune before- or just after- going into flower was to top the excessively growing shoots wherever they may have been, and to reposition the twine loops to level the canopy of the plant. At this point they'd be roughly 3' in diameter and no taller than last time, owing to the twine physically holding them down and open. I think the technique here really helped get light throughout the plant by forcing it open and keeping it that way.

Concurrently with the topping and training schedule, I'd remove lower fan leaves and assorted scraggly stuff, as it was being shaded by the upper story getting very lush and completely filling in. Once finished and looking at the plant from the side, you'd see bare stem at the bottom near the soil splitting into four, then splitting again into more branches before heading up into a dense canopy. This canopy was never more than a foot deep from bottom to top, but was very broad, almost saucer shaped. The things looked a lot like bonsai trees!

In this way, I was able to encourage consistent results from each plant, with between 16 and 32 cola sites, and no popcorn underneath which never added anything to weight anyway. All the plants were the same height as were the colas- carefully managed with the twine loops- the goal of which was to manage the vertical distance between the plants and the HPS bulb constantly rotating above.

There were always 12 plants under the rotator, six in early flower weeks 1-3, and six in late bloom, weeks 4-6. The plants were a variety I'm not sure of anymore, and I always finished in 6 weeks. They may well have done better if they'd stayed in a few extra weeks, I'll never know. Each plant averaged 4 ounces of dried finished smokable product of very high quality, since it was basically all colas. A few stars showed the way to higher potential, with up to 8 ounces on one plant...

To do this, I used a staging system like a perpetual grow; a clone zone and rooted cutting area sharing a 4 foot shoplight, an early veg under 2 more shoplights, 2 stages of peak veg under 4 more shoplights, and finally a prebloom under a stationary 400w MH, all before going under the rotating 1000w HPS.

I did the pruning I did to maximize the light I was using to flower a smaller number of plants. The bloom zone with all 12 plants was about 7 feet across. I didn't know any better at the time, so by the time I got busted- yes, snitched out- the HPS bulb was 4 years old! And yet, the yields were still up there. I never had any trouble with plant disease attacking where I'd topped the plants, and I certainly never had trouble with plants being unable to hold up their heavy buds, quite the contrary! The girls all acted like little weightlifters, constantly pulling the twine loops out of their duct tape on the sides of the buckets, even when double looped!

All this was 20 years ago; the lead officer testified in court that it ws hands down the most sophisticated grow operation he'd ever seen, clearly trying to get me some prison time. I had to think fast to counter with the fact that I was growing in dirt with cobbled together homebuilt bicycle parts! This being Colorado and a first offense, I got lucky with no jail time, just probation and fines.

I still think about that old setup every day, because if it worked so damned well then- 24-30 oz of finished product every 3 weeks like clockwork under a tired old bulb- then there has to be something of value in today's admittedly much more high tech world...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Yes, I'm still playing with this, in case anyone wondered.

Anyone know how much 16 pieces of 2' x 4' x .030 mirror polished aluminum would run me? Or to put it another way, 4 sheets of 4x8 aluminum, cut up into 2x4 pieces?
 
caregiverken

caregiverken

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Great thread Tystik :)

Im using a Space blanket I found in a cheap 1st aid kit. How Ghetto is that?;)
Very reflective!... Could it be Too Reflective?

Space Blanket


Cheap!
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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alot more than panda film or mylar would cost you

Of course, but it's much more cleanable and durable, too- which is where I would be getting my money back out of it. It's also going to retain the proper shape a lot more easily. Panda film isn't specular; it's a diffusion surface, or 'soft bounce' as they say in film and photography, which is the very thing I'm trying to avoid. Mylar is what I've been working with up 'til now, but I want to remove the inherent floppiness and difficulty of maintaining a good smooth reflective surface from the dataset I'm trying to build up around this approach.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Great thread Tystik :)

Im using a Space blanket I found in a cheap 1st aid kit. How Ghetto is that?;)
Very reflective!... Could it be Too Reflective?

View attachment 210955

Cheap!
Ghetto FABULOUS! Lots of great ideas come out of the constraints of poverty. Did rich people come up with the blues? Or, chitlins n hog jowls? Or recycling? HELL NO- they've had it too easy to be forced to improvise!

What you've bought is basically mylar sheeting all folded up into a little bag. It will be about the same as a roll of mylar for reflectivity, as the coating is manufactured the same way. Might even be a bit better for our purposes, depending on the backing material.

No such thing as too reflective... :cool:
 
jyip

jyip

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Panda film isn't specular; it's a diffusion surface, or 'soft bounce' as they say in film and photography, which is the very thing I'm trying to avoid. Mylar is what I've been working with up 'til now, but I want to remove the inherent floppiness and difficulty of maintaining a good smooth reflective surface

i use both, i hav the panda film for walls, ceiling, & floor, also a couple sections to lay on top of ebb n flo tray ( n cut out circles for individual pot covers) to prevent or slow down algae growth on exposed roots.. as well as mylar stapled to a free standing piece of cardboard which i use around three sides of my tray,,,, tho i am not sure if i get xtra yeild or not.


i do hear ya in regards to durability over time , positioning it, or cleaning it too....i havent gotten too wild trying to reflect the light othet than what i mentioned.....

i most recently learned this tho,,,,, i had got some rooted clones right outta a cloner and put them directly into coco pebbles with canna agua nutes....for about 4-5 days i had them goin with no external root growth coming outta parts,,, well, i put my cut out circles of panda film white side up always on top of plant medium to prevent algae growth before it started...WELL, unexpected results here! the root growth got better and the roots were outta the bottom of their 6 inch 0ne gallon hydro pots withina couple days....
PART TWO,,,i got five new clones and did them same way, BUT from day one with panda film on top this time,,, well, 4 days later i have roots 2 inches out the bottom already,,, i could tell these clones took right away,,,fyi, i am new to using clones, but like it alot,,, just plop them into the pot n mediumi choose n gro, easy!

great info to help up the yeilds here, nice!
 
jyip

jyip

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i most recently learned this tho,,,,, i had got some rooted clones right outta a cloner and put them directly into coco pebbles with canna agua nutes....for about 4-5 days i had them goin with no external root growth coming outta parts,,, well, i put my cut out circles of panda film white side up always on top of plant medium to prevent algae growth before it started...WELL, unexpected results here! the root growth got better and the roots were outta the bottom of their 6 inch 0ne gallon hydro pots withina couple days....
PART TWO,,,i got five new clones and did them same way, BUT from day one with panda film on top this time,,, well, 4 days later i have roots 2 inches out the bottom already,,, i could tell these clones took right away,,,fyi, i am new to using clones, but like it alot,,, just plop them into the pot n mediumi choose n gro, easy!
i believe this happened because the clay pebbles stayed moist right to top and roots developed better as a result,, great for me,,
 
jyip

jyip

807
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that aluminum would be costing around a few hundred dollars wouldnt it? isnt a lb a couple dollars now?..... depending how thin u can buy it and still do what u need it to do strength wise
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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that aluminum would be costing around a few hundred dollars wouldnt it? isnt a lb a couple dollars now?..... depending how thin u can buy it and still do what u need it to do strength wise

LOL the funny thing is, I've been chasing a quote for weeks now and no one will give me one! Ain't that a switch? It only needs to be .010 thick or perhaps a bit less, I'm going to put a couple folds in it to help keep it rigid.
 
M

MonkeyWrench

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LOL the funny thing is, I've been chasing a quote for weeks now and no one will give me one! Ain't that a switch? It only needs to be .010 thick or perhaps a bit less, I'm going to put a couple folds in it to help keep it rigid.

You're just not going to get a real quote on that, ttystikk. The truth is, polishing aluminum is something that is either done by the end customer or something the end customer has done by machinists. Your idea of folding the final product would be... problematic in terms of customer satisfaction.

Polishing (buffing, really... polishing is ongoing preventive maintenance for aluminum buffed to a mirror shine) is a boat load of work, but still something you could do yourself with a few tools and supplies (and maybe a bucket-load each of time and patience).

Get your cut to size pieces mounted to some thin, stiff board; this is structural, so I'd lean toward gluing onto plywood for this step. Securely mount each board and follow the instructions of better buffers than I: http://www.caswellplating.com/buffman.htm.

Getting back to your underlying issue though, have you looked into first-surface mirrors? If you can foot the bill, I suspect you'll have a better shot at feasibility using this approach. Lastly, though perhaps it should have been firstly, have you considered painting your ideal panels with titanium dioxide doped white paint? Or, indeed, straight titanium dioxide?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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You're just not going to get a real quote on that, ttystikk. The truth is, polishing aluminum is something that is either done by the end customer or something the end customer has done by machinists. Your idea of folding the final product would be... problematic in terms of customer satisfaction.

Polishing (buffing, really... polishing is ongoing preventive maintenance for aluminum buffed to a mirror shine) is a boat load of work, but still something you could do yourself with a few tools and supplies (and maybe a bucket-load each of time and patience).

Get your cut to size pieces mounted to some thin, stiff board; this is structural, so I'd lean toward gluing onto plywood for this step. Securely mount each board and follow the instructions of better buffers than I: http://www.caswellplating.com/buffman.htm.

On further reflection though, have you looked into first-surface mirrors? If you can foot the bill, I suspect you'll have a better shot at feasibility using this approach.

Okay, so where do the companies that make reflectors using reflective aluminum get it? I want the same stuff they've got, just in a 2 x 4 bounce card shape. I'll find a shop to bend it in a brake once I have the stuff. It can't be hard, it's aluminum, after all.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Ah... that stuff.
Something like 94% reflective, with no hotspots...

Wow. These people are really proud of their work: http://www.specialty-lights.com/reflective-sun-sheets.html

This stuff still looks suspiciously like the radiant insulation sold in roll at the local Orange Depot.

Of course, if you're on the hunt, perhaps something with a heartbeat is more your style:

Heartbeat? Yeah, I like the mirror polish sheet. What I'm trying to stay away from is the pebble diffusion pattern stuff. Thanks.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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For anyone still interested in updates on this, I've determined that an adjust-a-wing reflector is about the best for this application, and nothing I've come up with so far has been a substantial improvement. For this application, the appropriate setup would be to spread the wings as wide as possible and lower the bulb fully. Use the Super Spreader to stir your cocktail...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Okay, so after working with a conventional room and the one where I was trying different configurations of light movers, I'm trying a completely different approach- which still serves the ideals of better light utilization and overall efficiency. Check out my thread in the new Trees forum, '...inside out!'
 

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