Calling Out The Organic Growing Machines

[brazel]

dig a trench a spade shovel deep about 2ft,throw the soil out of hole,take a fork and bust up bottom of hole ,to break compacted soil,move another 2 ft fill the hole in you just emptied,dont turn itjust move that top soil over and fill in that trench,same process over and over,when you get to end of roll,the soil you took out in the beginning goes in that empty spot,,you are maintaing the top soil just moving it foward 2 ft at a time,but breaking the compacted soil under it with the fork,im putting compost in that bottom layer before i move the top soil on top of it,,serious freaking work,but that soil is fluffy when done,lol and about 5inches taller from all the air your giving it

Okay so I read up on this so I assume you're only digging down about 12 inch or so?

 

[oldskol4evr]

Okay so I read up on this so I assume you're only digging down about 12 inch or so?

correct,12 inch of damn rock it seems,lmao

 

[Ecompost]

I agree there's not enough science in cannabis terps atm. One study I read said they unlocked the genes to terps another one said Terps are genetic and nothing can help them so that would be one of the best ways to come up for a marker of different strains. This is just what I read

Every plant has its own unique service set identifier (SSID to pinch a computer network term).

The problem with humans is that they only look at things from a human point of view, they more often lack the subtle tools to understand the full connectivity of soil systems and plant growth, largely by physical limits, sometimes by sheer arrogance, but more by the simple weight of data being constantly updated and overwritten in healthy soil systems with growing plants in time.

Every plant on the planet has an individual set of partners, most of these, lets call them users, are like the users here, they can contribute without the requirement to first destroy another user or group of users, but just as its true here it true in the plant world, some users can not get along with other types of users.
How many times have you been on line, seen a good discussion get hijacked, and pretty soon the noise becomes too great and the true data gets lost amid conflict of personality? Ironically, I think the Internet is giving us some insight, in to the behavior of complex systems and much of this seems to follow the unruly nature of soil.

Just as its true on line forums generally have chaotic and unresolved entropic state, despite what might appear organized at first, so its true of soils. Colonies of like minds try to bully situations in their favor to gain advantage. Its warfare, just as many of these forums can be.
The pertinent point for me is that when we get unruly communities, we often lose access to what might be critical information. if we or our plants cant hear the person or microbe giving the important message at any moment, because the noise of the crowd is too great (SNR to pinch another networking term), or one group is creating so much it dominates the environment, we and our plants, might miss a vital cue or fail to collect a critical part of the puzzle of life and so fail to develop in line with normal expectation, to act in ways that preserve and so on. This might result in our plants suddenly developing illness, or the expected harvest not met, the taste destroyed, or the high poor, and in humans it might mean some one gets in to a car and drives over some other people who disagree. :-/

There is so much we need to know, its mind bending, we know nothing, and anyone here claiming they do know stuff is just about thinking about sitting on the bike seat with stabilizers and looking over their shoulder to make sure dad is coming to provide the guiding hand on the back.

What are the critical soil messages in the life cycle of cannabis?

Can we grow better plants with more homogenization and predictability by understanding the sum total microbial feedback loops?

How are these MFL's impacted by us, by the world around us?

How can we mitigate risks associated with external messages interfering with the real messages our plant needs to hear. How can we ensure the deliveries from external sources, critical to plant health remain intact and unmolested by competing microbes?

Can i boost my plants own ability by utilizing the abilities of other non related partners, from non related plants?

How can i easily and quickly monitor and maintain the data pipe and ensure QoS from feedback loops amid supporting and ever changing soil conditions and so microbial populations?

How can i insure microbial security to insure crop security?

How can i do all these things while simultaneously supporting all other valued life on earth?

To know this stuff, really know this stuff, is to be as close to god as man might ever come :)

 

[Ecompost]

Yeah I said that wasn't the best comparison cuz I also told you to ise straw but straw and clay is used for Adobe. I hope they want to achieve a radical soil and by that skip sand. Not trying to be rude or anything like that because you give a lot of great information and I value your knowledge but sand is just not ideal University of california-davis did a good study on sand and clay. There's just so much better input you could give. gypsum, humates, manures, yes but again there's better inputs. Of course they help I mean every respectable grower should know the benefits of gypsum but you need more. I'd always recommend mycorrhiza but buy the good shit look at spore count and species. Kis organics, build a soil and bioag imo are tops from what I seen. Could there be more sure but I got tired of researching especially when these are on point. Apply on roots. You can not say a better way. But like anything once it becomes hip I guess you say .... it's everywhere in all soil, bottled nutes....etc

Why you say overloading cec?
Yes stop tilling but I'll occasionally scratch the top inch.

Out of all the other ways to aerate you would use sand? What would your other choices be?

gypsum, manure and so on, this is amendment, sand is a common component of all soils. It is not an amendment, you are talking about amendments?
if i wanted to aerate a soil i might use rice hulls, nut hulls, cocoa hulls and so on, i might use perlite. But I would use various forms of sand where i want to improve drainage,impact CEC
Incredible that UCD would recommend sand is a poor medium, I suspect this is trendy, like I said, i didnt go to ag school, so i tend not to give a shit about what they say, they can talk to me when we dont have 8billion plus acres of lost soil :-)
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...oil-acutely-degraded-due-to-agriculture-study

 

[Ecompost]

Bro I switch I what I grow right now outs these fun guy

I grow lots of fungus and edible mushrooms for high end restaurants locally. good work getting it on

 

[brazel]

gypsum, manure and so on, this is amendment, sand is a common component of all soils. It is not an amendment, you are talking about amendments?
if i wanted to aerate a soil i might use rice hulls, nut hulls, cocoa hulls and so on, i might use perlite. But I would use various forms of sand where i want to improve drainage,impact CEC
Incredible that UCD would recommend sand is a poor medium, I suspect this is trendy, like I said, i didnt go to ag school, so i tend not to give a shit about what they say, they can talk to me when we dont have 8billion plus acres of lost soil :)
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...oil-acutely-degraded-due-to-agriculture-study

Sand, silt, clay.
Sorry I was just talking about different inputs to build clay up.
I'm not positive but wouldn't adding sand to clay lower the CEC?

Aeration to soil I generally like to add lava rock, pumice for the additional trace minerals and I like rice hulls as well decompose.

And heard that, I know more about soil then probably 90% of our farmers

 

[brazel]

I grow lots of fungus and edible mushrooms for high end restaurants locally. good work getting it on

Rad man high five! And thanks;)

 

[Ecompost]

Yeah I said that wasn't the best comparison cuz I also told you to ise straw but straw and clay is used for Adobe. I hope they want to achieve a radical soil and by that skip sand. Not trying to be rude or anything like that because you give a lot of great information and I value your knowledge but sand is just not ideal University of california-davis did a good study on sand and clay. There's just so much better input you could give. gypsum, humates, manures, yes but again there's better inputs. Of course they help I mean every respectable grower should know the benefits of gypsum but you need more. I'd always recommend mycorrhiza but buy the good shit look at spore count and species. Kis organics, build a soil and bioag imo are tops from what I seen. Could there be more sure but I got tired of researching especially when these are on point. Apply on roots. You can not say a better way. But like anything once it becomes hip I guess you say .... it's everywhere in all soil, bottled nutes....etc

Why you say overloading cec?
Yes stop tilling but I'll occasionally scratch the top inch.

Out of all the other ways to aerate you would use sand? What would your other choices be?

sorry the clay and CEC thing....
clay has charge, unlike sand or silt, this means it can attract nutrients from the soil solution, on to the surface of the clay itself. Once anchored, it takes some effort to remove these cations, some require more effort than others and some cations are dominant and so will rule the roost and this is why Gypsum is being used to break clays. Calcium being the dominant cation and also less tacky then say Sodium or other, drives the other cations off the surface of the clay. Calcium takes pride of place and this element has been recorded to help create a fluffy texture to soils. You can also spike Phosphorous in to clays to help break them apart, this happens as a consequence of heat energy as the P moves in the system.
if clays are separate in balanced systems, by the simple fact they are of like charge (-) then we have space enough for any plant root. problems is its hard to manage if you dont understand it and what you are adding. If we overload our clays delicate balance by over feeding cations, then we start to get + charged clays in a system of - clays. Here is the essence of clay compaction. Where we use gypsum we might find problems with Mg and or K since these are frequently antagonized, thus many plants begin to develop defs where this isnt countered through design. Gypsum means we need more N, more N means we need to check the rate of Carbon loss between cropping.

Good mycos should have a quality assurance, if not the spore count dont matter any. The critical thing is microbes help maintain the balance of C to N in soils and this balance helps the structure, and mycos can really help plants where tough clays prevent ideal root growth.
So dont overload your CEC, dont get compaction in the first place. Clay is not naturally compacted, it is usually a man made thing, heavy machines, or heavy feeds/ hands :-)

 

[brazel]

sorry the clay and CEC thing....
clay has charge, unlike sand or silt, this means it can attract nutrients from the soil solution, on to the surface of the clay itself. Once anchored, it takes some effort to remove these cations, some require more effort than others and some cations are dominant and so will rule the roost and this is why Gypsum is being used to break clays. Calcium being the dominant cation and also less tacky then say Sodium or other, drives the other cations off the surface of the clay. Calcium takes pride of place and this element has been recorded to help create a fluffy texture to soils. You can also spike Phosphorous in to clays to help break them apart, this happens as a consequence of heat energy as the P moves in the system.
if clays are separate in balanced systems, by the simple fact they are of like charge (-) then we have space enough for any plant root. problems is its hard to manage if you dont understand it and what you are adding. If we overload our clays delicate balance by over feeding cations, then we start to get + charged clays in a system of - clays. Here is the essence of clay compaction. Where we use gypsum we might find problems with Mg and or K since these are frequently antagonized, thus many plants begin to develop defs where this isnt countered through design. Gypsum means we need more N, more N means we need to check the rate of Carbon loss between cropping.

Good mycos should have a quality assurance, if not the spore count dont matter any. The critical thing is microbes help maintain the balance of C to N in soils and this balance helps the structure, and mycos can really help plants where tough clays prevent ideal root growth.
So dont overload your CEC, dont get compaction in the first place. Clay is not naturally compacted, it is usually a man made thing, heavy machines, or heavy feeds/ hands :)

Are you planting cover crop clovers or trying to inoculate phosphate solubilizing bacteria? And mycos for awesome phosphate absorption or is PSB one of the products you make?

 

[Ecompost]

Sand, silt, clay.
Sorry I was just talking about different inputs to build clay up.
I'm not positive but wouldn't adding sand to clay lower the CEC?

Aeration to soil I generally like to add lava rock, pumice for the additional trace minerals and I like rice hulls as well decompose.

And heard that, I know more about soil then probably 90% of our farmers

depends on the sand type right? if its coated sand, then typically, this being yellow, brown, gold in color, this has iron and aluminum on its surface, this attracts things like P and so stalls the leaching from the system and so has a lower loss of CEC since it has stuff on its self. However, only pH and or specialized microbes can then remove this bound P, or Ferrous content, but in the case of raw pH, this means we float the whole and not just the parts we want.
Mycos can screen the uptake of Al+++ for example and so pass the previously bound AlPO4 along to our plants as P2O5, disregarding the Al since its not a requirement we think for Mycos, it gets left alone while the P which is a requirement of all, gets stored or shared. this may be the reason there is an abundance of Al in all soils or rather the earths surface.
non coated sands, silver, white, grey, these tend to be then sands that cause the most nutrient leaching, since they dont hold anything, but this might be useful where we have too much CEC and so stored capacity in our systems. Where we do have this material, we need to be careful about nutrient application since most of it gets washed away to be someone else's arse ache, this is where I would add manures, humates in particular, thus improving the holding capacity of otherwise unlucky material.
we grow rice, we have access to hulls, so we use these in the majority, but we are on an old river bed flood plain from research, so main issue we have is layers of weathered silts built up like mini walls of china underfoot.

 

[Ecompost]

Are you planting cover crop clovers or trying to inoculate phosphate solubilizing bacteria? And mycos for awesome phosphate absorption or is PSB one of the products you make?

we cultivate PSB's and have added some that are found among typical crops to our products. We make our products by whole community DNA fingerprinting of said crops growing in organic systems, so we dont add as many variations of microbes as you see in many other packets. We do of course offer high spore counts and assurance stamps and if you only grow X plant, then even Root better would have too many micorbes for you, but nothing as bad as the market leaders product.
Its about not creating too much wasted or conflicting input. its about trying to limit the potential risk that over filling treatments with too many microbes, is likely just as bad as pouring too many liquid synthetic nutrients on the land. its about understanding there are primers in nature, and these can often come in many forms, covering a single limitation as in the case of Mycos and Bio Char, but by simply blindly combining these we might be canceling out any benefits offered.
Yes we grow with mixed covers, yes we have grazing and cropping cycles, yes we have pasture cycles. i would be out of business if i had to do this by manually inputing everything our plants need to grow to potential as a bottle or packet, bankers and mafia control global food prices, i am a victim of this rule as a human farmer.
We use lots of legumes in the system to reduce the cost of N inputs as we try to balance C/N levels while all the time trying to drive the maximum capacity out of every m23of soil we have.

 

[Ecompost]

correct,12 inch of damn rock it seems,lmao

plant olive trees buddy

 

[Ecompost]

Rad man high five! And thanks;)

I am super stoked to see people on single plant type forums, showing they grow more than dope bro. I am all for this expansion of the skillz. You can make good money selling the right shrooms to folks. lots of them have really great health benefits for humans, and so i hope you get success with it, that you keep up the learning the man tried to prevent you accessing :-)

 

[brazel]

we cultivate PSB's and have added some that are found among typical crops to our products. We make our products by whole community DNA fingerprinting of said crops growing in organic systems, so we dont add as many variations of microbes as you see in many other packets. We do of course offer high spore counts and assurance stamps and if you only grow X plant, then even Root better would have too many micorbes for you, but nothing as bad as the market leaders product.
Its about not creating too much wasted or conflicting input. its about trying to limit the potential risk that over filling treatments with too many microbes, is likely just as bad as pouring too many liquid synthetic nutrients on the land. its about understanding there are primers in nature, and these can often come in many forms, covering a single limitation as in the case of Mycos and Bio Char, but by simply blindly combining these we might be canceling out any benefits offered.
Yes we grow with mixed covers, yes we have grazing and cropping cycles, yes we have pasture cycles. i would be out of business if i had to do this by manually inputing everything our plants need to grow to potential as a bottle or packet, bankers and mafia control global food prices, i am a victim of this rule as a human farmer.
We use lots of legumes in the system to reduce the cost of N inputs as we try to balance C/N levels while all the time trying to drive the maximum capacity out of every m23of soil we have.

I messed around a little isolating PSB IN agar. I try to keep a happy SFW.
I haven't used SRF in years, I haven't had any lockouts in years either. I think my last soil test was 2013! ha need to get one soon.
I use bio char and mykos. I run the bio through the worm farm.
I start my seed straight in my 15 gallon nursery black pot. I quit using geopots about three years ago, I personally get better results in the nursery pots.
I go for no run off and a constant moisture.
Clones I start with aloe and a ultrasonic cloner I made or straight into the nursery pot... depending on what I have available

I might be just rambling now...i forgot what I was getting at

 

[brazel]

I am super stoked to see people on single plant type forums, showing they grow more than dope bro. I am all for this expansion of the skillz. You can make good money selling the right shrooms to folks. lots of them have really great health benefits for humans, and so i hope you get success with it, that you keep up the learning the man tried to prevent you accessing :)

I brought back some nice spore prints from Costa Rica. Next up is purple mystic. I do Gourmet as well. Thanks man I appreciate it

 

[Ecompost]

I messed around a little isolating PSB IN agar. I try to keep a happy SFW.
I haven't used SRF in years, I haven't had any lockouts in years either. I think my last soil test was 2013! ha need to get one soon.
I use bio char and mykos. I run the bio through the worm farm.
I start my seed straight in my 15 gallon nursery black pot. I quit using geopots about three years ago, I personally get better results in the nursery pots.
I go for no run off and a constant moisture.
Clones I start with aloe and a ultrasonic cloner I made or straight into the nursery pot... depending on what I have available

I might be just rambling now...i forgot what I was getting at

hahahaha god weed then? LOL

 

[Ecompost]

I brought back some nice spore prints from Costa Rica. Next up is purple mystic. I do Gourmet as well. Thanks man I appreciate it

I grow a few, some Reishi, Oysters, Shitake, Mitake, Bluwit, Stropharia mostly. indoors and outdoors in the case of the last two

 

[brazel]

I grow a few, some Reishi, Oysters, Shitake, Mitake, Bluwit, Stropharia mostly. indoors and outdoors in the case of the last two

I've never grown outdoors, I got a that inoculates logs and he had some pretty good harvest

 

[Ecompost]

I've never grown outdoors, I got a that inoculates logs and he had some pretty good harvest

yes the stroph is a recommendation for outside mate. so easy to grow and super for preparing beds ahead of time, it grows in straw etc and wood chips. after a few harvests you can clear the bed make a new one with old material and then use the bed for perennials or other

 

[oldskol4evr]

Every plant has its own unique service set identifier (SSID to pinch a computer network term).

The problem with humans is that they only look at things from a human point of view, they more often lack the subtle tools to understand the full connectivity of soil systems and plant growth, largely by physical limits, sometimes by sheer arrogance, but more by the simple weight of data being constantly updated and overwritten in healthy soil systems with growing plants in time.

Every plant on the planet has an individual set of partners, most of these, lets call them users, are like the users here, they can contribute without the requirement to first destroy another user or group of users, but just as its true here it true in the plant world, some users can not get along with other types of users.
How many times have you been on line, seen a good discussion get hijacked, and pretty soon the noise becomes too great and the true data gets lost amid conflict of personality? Ironically, I think the Internet is giving us some insight, in to the behavior of complex systems and much of this seems to follow the unruly nature of soil.

Just as its true on line forums generally have chaotic and unresolved entropic state, despite what might appear organized at first, so its true of soils. Colonies of like minds try to bully situations in their favor to gain advantage. Its warfare, just as many of these forums can be.
The pertinent point for me is that when we get unruly communities, we often lose access to what might be critical information. if we or our plants cant hear the person or microbe giving the important message at any moment, because the noise of the crowd is too great (SNR to pinch another networking term), or one group is creating so much it dominates the environment, we and our plants, might miss a vital cue or fail to collect a critical part of the puzzle of life and so fail to develop in line with normal expectation, to act in ways that preserve and so on. This might result in our plants suddenly developing illness, or the expected harvest not met, the taste destroyed, or the high poor, and in humans it might mean some one gets in to a car and drives over some other people who disagree. :-/

There is so much we need to know, its mind bending, we know nothing, and anyone here claiming they do know stuff is just about thinking about sitting on the bike seat with stabilizers and looking over their shoulder to make sure dad is coming to provide the guiding hand on the back.

What are the critical soil messages in the life cycle of cannabis?

Can we grow better plants with more homogenization and predictability by understanding the sum total microbial feedback loops?

How are these MFL's impacted by us, by the world around us?

How can we mitigate risks associated with external messages interfering with the real messages our plant needs to hear. How can we ensure the deliveries from external sources, critical to plant health remain intact and unmolested by competing microbes?

Can i boost my plants own ability by utilizing the abilities of other non related partners, from non related plants?

How can i easily and quickly monitor and maintain the data pipe and ensure QoS from feedback loops amid supporting and ever changing soil conditions and so microbial populations?

How can i insure microbial security to insure crop security?

How can i do all these things while simultaneously supporting all other valued life on earth?

To know this stuff, really know this stuff, is to be as close to god as man might ever come :)

now that my brother explains it all,WORD i really like the breakdown of when we combine thoughts and have it going good and someone comes and distract the whole party with bullshit,and stands true from crap we take over threw anger and then all is lost,great words my brother