Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[FarmerX]

@Capulator - I posted a couple of photos above.

Interesting that P is commonly and persistently present at 5 PPM, that's good info!

A lot of my research into hops points towards the following:

(Hops) Yearly application
75lbs(1st year) per acre Nitrogen(Nitrate)~ 37.5-75PPM
20-30 lbs per acre Phosphorous Pentoxide~ 13 PPM
80-150 lbs per acre Potassium Oxide~ 66.4 - 99 PPM
8.92-26.75 lbs per acre of Sulfate Quadoxide ~ 4.5-12.37 PPM

This suggests a respectable ratio (N-P-K) in the range of:
2.88 - 1 - 5
Up to:
5.75 - 1 - 7.5
Potentially:
2.88 - 1 - 7.5
5.75 - 1 - 5

My reading suggests that Calcium should be represented in relation to Phosphorous. I've even read that phosphorous can be peaked during different stages of life on different cultivars, as long as calcium is raised in relation. The ratio suggested in my research was. 1.5:1 Calcium : hosphorous. Another source also suggested that Potassium should be increased in correlation to Nitrogen at a 1:1 ratio, but potassium may exceed nitrogen without harm depending on cultivar. Another ratio I have noted is a 1:2 Phosphorous : Potassium (I'll have to dig through my sources but I believe that the emphasis is on controlling/regulating your maximum amount of P and not so much the K).

After a lot of reading and studying various articles, Im going to try the following PPM on my upcoming crop:

40 N - 20 P - 80 K - 30 Ca - 15 Mg - 12.5 S - 10 Sil
And
40 N - 20 P - 60 K - 30 Ca - 15 Mg - 12.5 S - 10 Sil

The cut of Cookies is up for debate. I've been told that it's a thin mint and ive also been told it's forum cut.

 

[Capulator]

@FarmerX Those are beautiful and I envy the high ceilings!

 

[Capulator]

Also @FarmerX it's good to see someone looking at hops farmers as hops and cannabis are in the same family. Thank you for posting that conversion as well. Really handy. For your proposed formulas, are you doing multiple feedings with that? What substrate?

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

I got this bug a salt gun that kills house flies with table salt. It just knocks the flies dead, sometimes turns them into spins or walks. I sometimes kill I would guess over 50 a day since I kill one with almost every shot and I have to reload after 50 shots. They fall on the floor etc and are swept up or eaten by a pet usually.
I'm going to start saving them and adding them dried and ground up to my AACT

 

[FarmerX]

@Capulator -

I miss that ceiling height! At my new space the main room has 30' ceilings, running 10' carport structures until I can afford to put in a false ceiling. I don't know if I'll ever go back to growing trees like that, the laws in my state are changing and 3-6 month vegetative time was stressful.

To my knowledge, Hops and Hemp are the cultivars with significant similarities and research available. Until we have a community database of tissue sample analysis and environmental recordings, there isn't really anything better to research.

I run 100% coco and aim to water 2-4 times a day. I don't suggest going below 0.8 - 1.0 EC unless intending to water more than once. With proper container size, a dialed environment and osmotic pressure, the plants drink a lot more and more often.
I also must emphasize that my ratios were achieved using brand products where there are unknown elements and variables That should be considered; Enzymes, Fulvic Acids, Seaweed, Alfalfa, Earth worm castings Extract, B vitamins, and presumably a couple of growth regulators.

Last night I had the opportunity to sit down and input my desired ratios into hydrobuddy. I was able to achieve less than -/+5% error with the exception of sulfur. In an effort to reduce present nitrates, the alternatives sources were sulfates. The formula suggests 20-30 PPM sulfur, which is nearly double my original target.

I then found this article and information, which leaves me wondering if I need to adjust the sulfur at all:

And:

Im also beginning to research sulfur fertigation on perfume cultivars such as roses, jasmines and others.

X

 

[guymandude]

if you are seriosuly about raw salts, then you should visit CustomHydronutrients.com

a good friend runs that site and will help with recipes, etc. He's a great human being and a very good friend.

@Capulator -
Im also beginning to research sulfur fertigation on perfume cultivars such as roses, jasmines and others.

X

I've been runnign Sugar Daddy in my nute regimen for years now. I honestly believe the sulfur in it helps with the flavors and terps.

 

[jpdnkstr]

Sulfur is one of the keys to great terps...

 

[FarmerX]

Sulfur is one of the keys to great terps...

Thank you for your input!

This is a common assumption in our community, but can you provide any significant evidence, an article, research?

Is there evidence of sulfur having impact on terpene potency in different cultivars?
The photo(s) I shared above suggests that Sulfur increases efficacy of Nitrogen and is present in CO2 extracted hemp oils. The quantity of sulfur present in tissue analysis and hemp oil suggests that we don't need to provide so much sulfur in our feed.

Possible factors to be considered is the efficacy and risk of extraction for analysis; is the sulfur destroyed or even properly extracted in the extraction process?
Is it possible different chemicals require a varying rates of exposure to the extraction solution to ne properly represented in the final analysis?

Thanks!

X

 

[jpdnkstr]

Sorry, nothing other than I noticed better flavors and smells when I increased the sulfur content of my nute regimen.

 

[FarmerX]

Sorry, nothing other than I noticed better flavors and smells when I increased the sulfur content of my nute regimen.

First hand experience is definitely note worthy, I appreciate your contribution!

 

[guymandude]

Thank you for your input!

This is a common assumption in our community, but can you provide any significant evidence, an article, research?

Is there evidence of sulfur having impact on terpene potency in different cultivars?
The photo(s) I shared above suggests that Sulfur increases efficacy of Nitrogen and is present in CO2 extracted hemp oils. The quantity of sulfur present in tissue analysis and hemp oil suggests that we don't need to provide so much sulfur in our feed.

Possible factors to be considered is the efficacy and risk of extraction for analysis; is the sulfur destroyed or even properly extracted in the extraction process?
Is it possible different chemicals require a varying rates of exposure to the extraction solution to ne properly represented in the final analysis?

Thanks!

X

Sorry, nothing other than I noticed better flavors and smells when I increased the sulfur content of my nute regimen.

same here. I have noticed better flavors using Sugar Daddy than buds grown without it. It's sugar and magnesium sulfate - I honestly believe it's the sulfur

 

[FarmerX]

same here. I have noticed better flavors using Sugar Daddy than buds grown without it. It's sugar and magnesium sulfate - I honestly believe it's the sulfur

Sorry I missed your first post @guymandude

I appreciate your opinion and input too.

I'd like to play devils advocate here and provide some food for thought/conversation.

It's important to remember that it's not possible in some/all cases to provide just a single nutrient in a solution. Most are compounded elements like Potassium Sulfate, Potassium Silicate, Magnesium Sulfate, Magnesium Nitrate, etc.

I notice carbohydrates in some/most of the popular bloom "boosters." Sugars in fertilization of other crops is an unresearched area, but I will get to it in due time. I would argue this is an important part of the solution, otherwise why would it be there other than because it provides a benefit to resin and reproductive production or to throw off people like is trying to decipher recipes.

Now, returning to my first paragraph.
Could Magnesium be the critical factor in these solutions, and sulfur the only elemental copilot that can fluctuate without significant imbalance and stress on uptake?
Or...
Is sulfur really the critical factor in these solutions, and Magnesium is the only elemental co-pilot that can fluctuate without significant imbalance and stress on uptake?
Possibly...
It's both?

Assuming no trickery on the fertilizer companies part. They would only add these inputs because the plant benefits from it.

Thanks!

X

 

[jpdnkstr]

Sorry I missed your first post @guymandude

I appreciate your opinion and input too.

I'd like to play devils advocate here and provide some food for thought/conversation.

It's important to remember that it's not possible in some/all cases to provide just a single nutrient in a solution. Most are compounded elements like Potassium Sulfate, Potassium Silicate, Magnesium Sulfate, Magnesium Nitrate, etc.

I notice carbohydrates in some/most of the popular bloom "boosters." Sugars in fertilization of other crops is an unresearched area, but I will get to it in due time. I would argue this is an important part of the solution, otherwise why would it be there other than because it provides a benefit to resin and reproductive production or to throw off people like is trying to decipher recipes.

Now, returning to my first paragraph.
Could Magnesium be the critical factor in these solutions, and sulfur the only elemental copilot that can fluctuate without significant imbalance and stress on uptake?
Or...
Is sulfur really the critical factor in these solutions, and Magnesium is the only elemental co-pilot that can fluctuate without significant imbalance and stress on uptake?
Possibly...
It's both?

Assuming no trickery on the fertilizer companies part. They would only add these inputs because the plant benefits from it.

Thanks!

X

I was going to comment that I was adding magnesium sulfate, so it's a possibility it is related to magnesium as well. I'm very interested in understanding my feed regimen, in hopes of improvement. I think this is a good place as any to discuss this topic. I appreciate your input as well.

 

[guymandude]

you could get some mag sulfate and mag nitrate and do a comparison grow . or someone could....

 

[DOUGHBOY420]

Medusa I have used blossom booster at .5 g/gal added to the rest of the formula (no need to reduce your normal formula when using it this way). It does the job, but I will say that boosters and additives can always complicate things. It's old news but having a perfect environment, and proper watering schedule will do a garden much better than boosters.

I am back to jacks again for simplicity, but I am using a lot less. Currently I am using:

3mL cal mag
.5 grams Epsom
1.5 grams 5-12-26
1 gram CaNO3

and:
15mL herculean harvest
5mL poseidenzyme
5mL zeuss juice
fasilitor 1/2mL per gal first 3 weeks only.

And of course OG BIOWAR weekly teas, which help greatly with keeping all kinds of things at bay (bugs,PM,toxixities, deficiencies..)

I use this all the way through. My system is top feed DTW with plants started in RW and moved to chow beds. I can tell you right now the secret is in the watering schedule.

Hello I had a question would it be ok to run this jacks hydro in soil specifically, Ocean Forest... I have purchased 225 pound bags one of the 5-12-26 Hydro one of the Cal nit and was hoping it would be ok

 

[One drop]

Wow what a great read on this thread some very insightful info , OK I'm a gardener that has very little money to buy Nutes like you guys are running , I have been using a extremely cheap mix of Urine , milk , wormtea & SeaSol the urine is free so in my wormtea, my 6 lts of milk cost me $3.00 and the SeaSol is $9.00 a lt bottle it has been working great outdoors and did really well on the first indoor crop here's a few pics , I really don't like to spend money on Nutes in fancy bottles and not really knowing what is in them so that's why I've gone the fully natural way .

 

[dollardos]

Can i use Jacks hydro 5-12-26 on soil the soil I'm using is Promix HP
or what is the best for soil i really was trying to share with a buddy that interested in cheaper nutes

 

[dollardos]

sorry about the double post is the ph adjuster good for soil ....will it kill micro life

 

[linky]

Tons of misinformation on the internet. Let me assure you since running 70+% rh I haven't lost a single nug to bud mold either . I'll pm you some links

I was running my room based off the VPD chart as well but I run a perpetual room, I was afraid of running 75 percent humidity at the end stages of flower.. and my room always has plants in the last few weeks of bloom. Anyone here run VPD in a perpetual room with no issues of bud rot/mold or ill effects on final product? I am currently running low humidity (~40-45%) at 75 ambient, 80-82 canopy temps with co2 at 850 ppm using jacks hydroponics, cal nit, mag sul, fulvic acid, terpinator and mammoth p.

 

[Hookah79]

I read earlier in this thread about using 2 grams of epsom salt,and sugar per gallon 4 days before chop.Is this still ok???