CO2 v.s Butane Extraction

Discussion in 'Concentrates & Processing' started by Mr_Marley_Jim, May 21, 2010.

  1. squiggly

    squiggly Well-Known Farmer

    It's going to be a gas unless you hit the right pressure.

    Here is a phase diagram for CO2:

    http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/co2_phase_diagram.gif

    and H2O so that you may compare and see what's at work:

    http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/@api/deki/files/2657/=Phase_Diagram_H2O.jpg

    To be supercritical CO2 must be at 304K under ~73atm of pressure. (73 times atmospheric pressure, that is alot)

    I have a hard time believing that a normal test tube can withstand such pressure. I am guessing the one used in the video was a specialized version, and is likely not THAT cheap. Also, the fact that the CO2 is boiling off tells me it's unlikely that 73atm could even build up in that tube--that amount of dry ice probably doesn't even have the capacity to send pressure that high, perhaps locally but no throughout the sample.

    The idea behind supercritical extractions is that things are selectively soluble at different pressures/temperatures in CO2 above the critical point. Without precise control over the temp/pressure almost all of the utility gained by using this as a solvent is lost. Butane begins to look a lot better economically for a number of reasons.

    This is essentially why more people aren't doing this already.
  2. Graywolf

    Graywolf Well-Known Farmer

    Nothing, except for maybe making some dry ice. CO2 extraction requires that the C02 be at least liquid, if not super critical.
  3. El Cerebro

    El Cerebro Well-Known Farmer

    Got a new keyboard that only does caps?
    Pancho-N-Lefty and MrFox24 like this.
  4. Graywolf

    Graywolf Well-Known Farmer

    I've been tracking a CO2 SFE extraction thread on another forum, using a commercial unit, and thought I would share some of Organic Alchemists pictures with ya'll! He got this at 5000 psi and no co-solvent, which he decribes as aromatic and tasty.

    Attached Files:

  5. Graywolf

    Graywolf Well-Known Farmer

    PS: I am finally able to print from virtual mode on my computer, so thought I would share a simple minded CO2 SFE system that I plan to assemble to try out the process. I will start a seperate thread, so as to not hijack this one.

    This one was based on subcritical extraction, but I've decided to gundrill a billet and make a 5000 psi unit.

    Attached Files:

  6. SCFSYNDICATE760

    SCFSYNDICATE760 Active Farmer

    ok so that wax u said dude got, thats out of a diy unit??
    sorry missed that..
    or its a real deal sce machine?
    i dunno gdub, last co2 i tried, wasnt as good tasting, strong or get you as lifted as my good bho..really not even close..
    BUT it Was EASIER ON THE THROAT
    i noticed that many co2 oils seem to take on a similar flavor...we had 4 diff types and they were all veryyy similar tasting smelling looking etc...
    not bad, but bho was wayyyyyyyyyyy more effective and tastes way better..imho
    DEF tho if there is a diy co2 on the horizon, im all ears and looking forward to seeing it...
  7. true grit

    true grit Moderator Staff Member

    tried some well made co2 from norcal...not bad at all. One of the better representations i have seen. Tried a buncha butane erl while in socal as well...cant say I was impressed and could see why there could be some skewed views. Not that its any better out here in CO, i hit pens all the time from folks with subpar erl. Im not sure if its inputs or procedures, as often they are purged well just not very good quality overall.
    Graywolf likes this.
  8. Graywolf

    Graywolf Well-Known Farmer

    It is out of a commercial SCF extraction unit. I hope to have some out of a DIY unit, but I have to build one first.

    Perhaps in the interim CO2extractor has some DIY pictures to share.
  9. SCFSYNDICATE760

    SCFSYNDICATE760 Active Farmer

    mmmmm hmmm that would be..something...lol...is that guy even still here?
    def lookin forward to seein what u got crackin
    Graywolf likes this.
  10. Graywolf

    Graywolf Well-Known Farmer

    I'm still looking forward to my first CO2 oil, but can relate to your experience tasting different erls. Sometimes I can't even figure out what you would have to do to oil, to get to taste so bad, so I infer that the starting product may have also been suspect.

    Taste is one of the things that becomes most apparent, when comparing the different extraction methods using the same starting material. Our students typically taste the seven different extractions that we do in class, and except for fresh frozen BHO extraction, which was rated best tasting of all, QWET and QWISO actually got higher marks for floral undertones, while the cured BHO got highest marks for smooth, mellow, hashy flavor.

    Our butane extraction and recovery system doesn't do a good job of keeping material frozen, so we've found that the next best thing is to extract from dried material after hanging until the small stems snap, which takes about five days, to a week, depending on our local weather. That retains more of the lighter mono and Sequiterpenes, which give it the floral flavor.

    Since many of them are alcohols, ketones, ethers, ketones, aldehydes, esters, carboxylic acids, etc, they are highly volatile, and evaporate away with the water during the drying process. It is because of their volatility, that they smell so strongly. Molecules that they are casting off, are colliding with our noses.

    While they are the source of most of the floral undertones, they are not all necessarily smooth and mellow to smoke, so they do add some harshness, not present in oils where they are not present, or at lower levels.

    What appears to be going on in the erl industry right now, is an awakening by the masses of its goodness, with more and more folks trying their hands at it. Because it has been a secret esoteric underground art up until recently, there is a lot of bad and misinformation out there, and a lot of folks learning things not to do, the hard way.

    From what I've been hearing, SFE CO2 may be in the same situation, just further behind on the curve. Lots of people saying it tastes terrible, with others saying it ia ambrosia from the gods, so odds are that they aren't tasting the same product.

    Things are further complicated by unscrupulous rascals selling material extracted by other methods, as SFE CO2, to get around restrictions, or just to make more bucks.

    I personally judge erls, by my own products, because I know exactly what I have.
  11. SCFSYNDICATE760

    SCFSYNDICATE760 Active Farmer

    very good point there the past bit..
    yea i thought the co2 tasted ok, just not as good as bho...
    so ur saying people like the fresh right off the plant into the freezer? then blast? they like that the best?
    i always thought the lil wet flavoring kinda tasted funky...?
    caveman4.20 likes this.
  12. Graywolf

    Graywolf Well-Known Farmer

    The fresh frozen BHO was most often described as "fresh" and the fresh frozen QWET as "soapy." Fresh frozen extraction works better using a non polar solvent.
  13. greenthumbdanny

    greenthumbdanny Premium Farmer

    I have never made it nor want to>>all tastes and looks like shit..Every thing that i have encountered with co2 extractions has not been pleasant.>>>looks, smells and tastes like shit period..
    Wax>>>now thats what im talking about:)

    gtd
  14. SCFSYNDICATE760

    SCFSYNDICATE760 Active Farmer

    stuff i had didnt taste like shite, but not nearly as good as sum tits bho
  15. Ariako

    Ariako New Farmer

    Okay, to set the record straight, Butane extraction ALWAYS leaves a great deal of impurities unless done using very expensive vacuum purge systems. The ONLY reason anyone would think they're getting more 'high' on the butane extracts is because butane itself is enough to get you high, and butane, though deadly, is more addictive than marijuana alone. If you continue to smoke impure extracts, such as butane ones, you will invariably develop serious health problems, so I suggest that you all consider changing products and doing more research before putting things into your lungs.

    CO2 extraction is clean, though, and non-harmful.... Assuming the process used is supercritical. Keep in mind, most dispensaries aren't able to afford the minimum price of these machines though, so what they're calling CO2 extract, is likely subcritically made and very impure.

    Earwax btw, is usually made of non-purged butane extract, and is imo the most deadly substance you can get from a dispensary due to its near overdose of butane levels. SMOKE SMART.
    caveman4.20 likes this.
  16. El Cerebro

    El Cerebro Well-Known Farmer

    bullshit

    bullshit

    and bullshit
  17. Tank333

    Tank333 Well-Known Farmer

    Um, maybe you need to do a little more research?? Lol
  18. Ariako

    Ariako New Farmer

    If you don't want to believe me, that's fine, but being rude just makes you look like a simpleton ;)

    BTW, it's a notice to help people avoid getting cancer from butane methods, if you don't like it, then smoke butane and die young. Honestly the world would be better off without you.
  19. El Cerebro

    El Cerebro Well-Known Farmer

    i just huffed 3 cans of vector
  20. Ariako

    Ariako New Farmer

    Well Cerebro, your inhalant addiction aside, we'll miss u bro :)