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Coco Issues

Discussion in 'Coco Coir' started by Smellypants, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. Hi everyone

    This is my first post so go easy on me

    So Ive just got back into growing again and running into some major issues.
    First run I did soil which went completely tits up and fried the life out of my girls because I followed H & G feeding guide.

    I was using the bio 1 part and attempted to follow their ec guide, little did I know you can’t ec organic (why do house and garden even bother putting this on their schedule)!
    So I pretty much lost those

    Second run I decided to use coco (current run)

    Canna professional coco
    In root nurse fabric pots
    House and garden coco a+b
    Mulizyme, roots exc, Dutch master silica, canna cal mag

    Environment is a sealed room running co2 with ac 1200ppm
    Temps are 26c hum 65

    Gorilla 8x8 tent
    4 630w lumatek cmh is sunmaster de/ac (copied) reflectors

    Tap water runs through a carbon block and a 5 micron sediment filter. Comes out at .2ec

    So I have some in flower right now which are once again fried.
    Another room I have some in veg which are showing signs of deficiencies.
    The girls in flower were at 1.8ec and started showing signs of what I thought were a potassium deficiency.
    I was adding 0.5ml/L of cal mag to bump my base water up to 0.4ec then adding 1.3ml/l of coco a and b to get my 1.6ish, then additives took it to 1.8.

    So I searched everywhere for answers, looking at all the pictures and reading all the forums, websites etc.
    Asked all h + g wholesalers why they say to use 4ml/l at this stage with no one able to answer it.
    I mixed what they recommended in a separate bucket to find it takes my ec to 3.4.

    So a couple companies told me to flush with 1.0ec until my runoff is the same (run to waste btw)
    Took some photos to my local shop and he was adamant they were underfed and cannabilising themselves “bump it up to 2.4 ASAP”.
    So I did, and a few days later they were completely fried once again 4 weeks into flower.

    So I immediately started flushing with plain ph water to get it down to 0.8ec (which took forever and a lot of water)
    Removed all the fried leaves and stuck with daily feedings of 0.8ec.
    2 weeks later and the leaves are still turning brown from the tips, slowly consuming the full leaf.

    My other girls in veg (about 3 weeks old) are showing similar issues (nowhere near as bad) top leaves look like a mag defeciency (sprayed Epsom on them 1ml/l) still no change.
    They are getting an ec of 1.0

    I’d love to stay in coco but I just can’t seem to get them healthy.
    I ph everything at 5.8, I mix everything and dilute as much as possible, my environment is perfect, I feed daily, I was running a good 20-30% runoff, ec and ph coming out was bang on but this was wasting a lot of water and nutrients.

    What the hell am I doing wrong????

    It must be something I’m doing with the feed.

    I took a clone of a flowering plant and put into a root riot plug, gave it similar water once it was rooted but lower ec and that had a lot of yellowing and strange problems.
    So I thought I’d stick that into soil fabric point since it was a mother anyway...24 hours later it’s lovely and green

    If I don’t sort this issue in the next week or 2 then I’m going to transplant them into soil and ditch the coco
  2. What's your water schedule? how often? Reason I ask is because the coco in those pots looks pretty dry on top.

    Also, do you have the cleaning/calibrating solution for your ph pen? Cause I'd swear your ph is off.
    RooR5mm and JWM2 like this.
  3. I water them daily, defo not dry at all.

    Ive tried with a ton a runoff and tried without and made no difference.

    They are all getting the same nutes atm

    0.5ml/l calmag to take water from .2ec to .4ec
    H+G coco a/b 0.7ml/l each to take ec to 1.0
    Multizyme 1ml/l
    Silica 0.5ml/l

    I know my ec is very low for the flowering girls, but they were on 1.6 4 weeks ago with this issue.
    Told they were starving so bumped it up and made it much worse.
    Then told to flush and keep them low until the burning stops, but this browning just consumes the leaves.

    I defoliated all of the burnt leaves 2 weeks ago on the day of the flush, as you can see it keeps coming back and won’t stop

    Have a brand new blue lab ph pen that I re-calibrate weekly using the buffer 4 and 7 as well as hydrate weekly for 24hours in the storage solution.

    Honestly I am sick of this issue.
  4. Nugteq


    Ill do my best to help you yet I really cant say for sure whats going on

    First from info you've stated
    1. Dont flush with pure tap water even if its phed at 5.8
    If you are to flush mid early flower or anytime for that matter flush with your normal nute mix but at less than 50% sort of ease them down until your runoff starts to level off
    2. Stop with all the additional add ons just stick with your base until you can figure out whats going on just a general precaution
    3. Check for bugs

    This is gonna be shitty but I advise you to get a handheld microscope or some way to get 50x magnification and look under the leaves.

    To me it seems like you have mites. Broad mites or cyclamen mites looks like cyclamen mite damage.
    I say that because im fighting them now im familiar with them.
    Did you get cuts or clones from someone else or grow from seed?

    You say damage is in both veg and flower and progressing. Have you noticed slow to no growth in veg?

    You see on your first pictures the white spots and streaks? Thats an indicator of mite damage. They are eating the underside of the leaves. You see the picture you posted on first post with deformity on the leaf edge? The curling and twisting? That is also an indicator of cyclamen mites. Also known as broad mites although they are different.

    You MAY have a full blown infestation going on you need to get a handheld microscope and check underside of leaf surfaces on all plants your looking for white spherical eggs. At 30 to 50x magnification.

    Hopefully you DONT have bugs but the damage seems familiar to me and I hope you dont have them yet you need to make sure first.

    If I were to guess your plants are suffering from nutrient burn plus ph swings plus mite damage. Just a guess tho.
  5. I can feel your frustration man. Most of your stats look good. Your base water ec of .2 is a little concerning to me. I use RO water and I’m in coco. I usually add Calmag to bring my ec to .2. You are adding calmag on top of .2 base water to bring to to .4. That may be too high for your plants. My plants don’t like anything over an ec of 1.2 in early flower and I feed 3 times a day. They are currently being fed an ec of 1.0 in week 5 of flower. Being in fabric pots like you are, you may need to water twice a day to keep them from drying out. You do not want the coco to dry out. The rule for coco is if it’s wet, water it, if it’s damp, water it. If it’s dry, you fucked up. If the coco drys out, the salts build up in the medium. Then when you water with more salts, it results in overfeeding. Which can lockout some nutrients and look like a deficiency. With coco you want low ec more often. I’m not familiar with H&G nutes so I can’t advise you there. I use REMO nutes and have great success. Perhaps a nute line change is in order. I’ve tried several nute lines so far. Sometimes it takes a few runs to find one you like. I hope you get it worked out. Good luck.
  6. Are you using bottled co2 or a burner? Co2 in veg (if so burner or bottled)? That could be a number of problems like stated above.

    Just a heads up for coco I would run aqua flakes (if they still offer it). Has the most cal out of all of them. Never had to use any calmg with aqua flakes in coco with RO.
  7. Thanks for the comments guys.

    Unfortunately the ones in flower were unable to recover and I ended with a terrible yield.

    I have got to the bottom of it and the ones I had in veg are now fully recovered and 3 weeks into flower.

    100% positive they were severely underfed.

    No doubt this will go against a lot of what people say, but currently at 3.5ec feeding feeding twice and day at 1500ppm co2 and they are doing brilliantly.
    Still have the very odd leaf showing minor rust spots

    I was giving them 3.0ec last week once a day and they were still starting to show slight signs of deficiencies, so I bumped them up and fed twice a day.

    Run off has been a few digits higher but ph in run off has always been 5.9ish.

    I’m presuming it’s the co2 which is causing them to eat so much, I was told that it catches a lot of people off guard
  8. And some strains are just heavy feeders. I’m glad you got it worked out.
    Smellypants likes this.
  9. Nugteq


    What r u gonna do about the mites u have did u read my post or na
  10. yeah sorry I did read it nugteq

    Defo no bugs mate, they were just severely underfed

    If you compare them to what I’m feeding now

    Before the most they got was 1.6ec which worked out to be around 1.2ml per litre

    This time they are at 3.5ec which works out to be 3ml per litre

    Obviously there is additives in that ec

    What pisses me off is why do H&G say to use 4ml per litre with 1.8-2.0ec.
    That’s impossible
    Because of their misleading information I fucked my previous organic crop in soil.
    Took me 6ml per litre of the bio comp 1 part to hit their ec levels (little did I know you can’t ec organic accuratley which burned the life out of my crop)
  11. Nugteq


    How do you know there are no bugs?
    Have you looked on the undersides of leaves with a hand held microscope? If not your not listening to what im trying to help you with.

    So you threw your entire flower room away because plants were so bad right?
  12. Nugteq


    Did you get these plants from clone or seed?
  13. I checked everything even with a microscope on undersides of leaves.

    Only bugs I ever get is springtails in the coco, but they are only in small numbers

    My setup is pretty anal so chances of getting bugs are very slim.
    Sealed room, run lights through the day, intake for lights off has a carbon filter to prevent bugs and mould spores etc
    Only wear a pair of shorts to feed them lol

    Also use Silica from start to finish and spray twice a week with magic green/nitrozyme mix.

    I inspect my girls twice a day for bugs/ mould/ deficiencies etc

    All my grows are seed only.
    The ones in the picture are bubbas gift from HSO.

    So this issue started in the first 2 weeks of flower, I tried everything (other than seriously bumping up the food)
    I pulled the plug on them at Week 8 because they did nothing over the 6 week period and had very little foliage left to be able to recover
  14. Nugteq


    Do you see this still in any of your plants ?
  15. This is the same plants today.

    Excuses the stretchy plants, vegged them for too long and they got way too overcrowded.
  16. I’ve noticed cmh cause quite a bit of stretching, also light intensity is know where near the same as my solistek set at 620/30
    Not sold on these cmh’s yet
  17. Nugteq


    Do you have a veg area? Take pics of one's in veg from your lower level fan leaves last thing im gonna check 4 u
  18. I do have a veg area but I only just cracked some beans and still in the propagater (literally just broke the surface yesterday)

    Thanks for looking into this nugteq
  19. Nugteq


    If you see damage like ones in pictures I screenshotted off your post prop up again despite same nutes and no other issues check for mite eggs under the leaves with a handheld microscope they are white look like trichomes
    Smellypants likes this.
  20. I'm having exactly this issue!
    So they were underfed!??