comparison grow: HPS vs Induction

[Sarlacc]

I don't know why some of you get so riled up here. I think it's pretty comical. Don't read my posts if it bothers you so much. Better yet get me banned.

What interests me and should you as well is what I see as emerging trends in energy saving lights that deliver yields. Induction seems to be one of those technologies and LED's have huge potential as well. And unlike Weman I'm willing to give the QT run vids the benefit of seeing it to completion before I throw 'shit through the wall'. Kind of an overreaction there pal but to each his own I guess.

Here's a product that I also found might work well in conjunction with MH as the flowering side and may be a way to replace HPS which would ultimately be in all, unless you're a hydro shop, our best interests.

 

[Sarlacc]

Day 50 update and the ladies have just started week 8 - their final week before the flush.

The control plants are showing the traditional spear-ish shape of the Bloodwreck pheno that I am used to seeing under the 420, however the 2 on the Pontoon side almost look to be an entirely different phenotype. The buds are so much more squat, dense, and fat.

Filmed in Compliance with ORS 475.300-475.346 & OAR 333.008

 

[woodsmaneh]

Stay the course bro, people always throw stones at early adopters, they don't know better, but itis also the fault of the people who bring new technology to the market place. WE all pay way too much for things like electricity so when someone comes along and says we can cut it in 1/2 we all listen but we have heard this before remember LED's well the same thing could happen to Induction, and I think the reason for this is setting expectations too high. Now with induction they say a 430 will do a 4x8 just like a 1000w will, that's just bullshit from what I have been able to see and learn, and that's the rub, they should say a 430 will do the same as a 600 and people would buy that. I think thats around where they should be rated.IMHO

So you can see why people get their backs up when they say 430 = 1000w and it just does not.

Now Induction has been around for a very long time and the reason we don't see it much is there is no money in it for the lighting companies because they last 10 years.

Me I'm getting on the train with you soon, but I will test a couple before I am all in. Now if I can just sort through the crap out there about mine is the best but is twice the price bla bla bla

PS I helped a company in BC develop their leds as an adviser 5 years ago and from what I learned I never adopted them after extensive testing because the yield was not there. IMHO
I gave them all away and don't use them at all. They have come a long way but still not for me.

Now induction is a whole new ball game and getting close to where I want to be.....

 

[Sarlacc]

Thanks Woodsmaneh. I think the gardens shown in these videos are sort of an apples and oranges comparison when it comes to HID vs induction/LED. That's what appeals to me. It is a different approach to traditional high wattage indoor lighting methods. Let's see what it brings. There is no harm in that and that's why I share it so those who choose to consider these systems can reach their own informed conclusions.

I have not heard these outlandish comparisons in g/sqft or g/watt as you refer to. But if so it exists as unsubstantiated hype and of course you're wise to simply ignore it and defer to those realistic and proven results that are shared by seasoned growers and their techniques. The actual comparison of a broad spectrum induction/phosphor run utilizing supplemental LED to a two lamp HID solution would not lend itself to an apples and apples comparison anyway. The weight will be there, or close, one way or the other. It'll come at a fraction of the cost to operate and the final product from a broad spectrum flower is going to be entirely different. Which as you put it is 'closer to where I want to be...'

 

[Sarlacc]

Any video that starts out with 'Oh My God!' is going to be interesting. Day 55 and the trichome layering is pretty impressive for 400 watts of light. Definetely seeing the differences in the two sides though.

Can't wait to see weights and a smoke report...

 

[chazbolin]

Greetings Farmers! I chopped Friday and I got to trim on the Black Domina and the Lemon OG yesterday. Should get all 12 plants done by Thursday. I'll give em a couple weeks in the jars with my daily burp and will follow up with a smoke and final weights report. Being familiar with these strains I can say that even more so than when I grew under HPS there are more trichomes, they're denser and the terpene and oil production is outstanding when running the 420 light without the pontoon. Having added the pontoon to the 420 (460watts total) has filled in the vertical bud development and the buds appear fatter and tighter. Top shelf all the on all 3 strains. Between the 12 plants I look to average about 50-70G dry per plant. This run was done on a 12/12. I will do the next run same strains on a 14/10 flower and probably only veg for 2-3 weeks max. If the 730 diodes put the ladies to rest at lights out within minutes instead of the 2 hours it take them to relax into flower than the benefit of bringing a longer daylight shorter night indoors was not achieved on this run.

All in all I'm pleased and am really looking forward to the next run with a LDL flowering schedule. I plan on pulling in a couple Durban Poison to see how a straight sativa does. I've only grown those outdoors in the summer so it should prove interesting.

Peace

 

[chazbolin]

Bottled and burpin! There was a total of 12 plants in the tent under two 420/Pontoon combo's for a total of 860 watts. There were six on one side that saw a 3.5 week veg and then I filled up the other side of the tent on a one week veg before I flipped to flower. The 3.5 week veg produced about 3X the weight as the 1 week veg. I believe I would have seen near 2 elbo's had both sides seen the full 3.5 week veg.

Got everything trimmed bottled and weighed yesterday and here's how we shook out.

Black Domina: 185 g
Lemon OG: 190 g
Big Bud: 140 g
Shunk Kush: 130 g
Total: 645 g

From my previous grows I'd estimate I'm up about 2.5 oz with the pontoons. Buds seem frostier/denser with more oil production too. From here I get into a 2 week veg than I'm running a 14/10 to see how that turns out.

 

[chazbolin]

Damn shame this GSC got this bad but it's mine now. I want to share it since this will be a major rehab as they were definitely mothered out way too soon. So for all practical purposes I consider today my Day 1. I'll run another 2-3 weeks on an 18/6 H&G regimen and then flipping Tent 1 to a 14/10. These gurlz are coming back!

Tent 1: 5 x 5 Agro-Max with one Inda-Gro Pro-420/Pontoon combo. The Pontoon will only run at flip.
2 Gal Air Pots side by side with with soil and cocco

2 ea., GSC
Genetics: OG X GDP X Durban Poison
Pheno: Thin Mint
Currently at 3 weeks of veg had been under a 600 watt MH

2 Grand Daddy Mendo
Genetics: Grand Daddy Purple x Mendo Purps

1 ea., Blueberry Diesel
Genetics: DJ's Blueberry x Sour Diesel

1 ea., Dream Queen
Genetics: Space Queen x Blue Dream

Tent 2 (4 x 4) veg/clone
Strains: 213 OG and GSC

 

[chazbolin]

I happened across this OSRAM presentation from 2010. Alot of the research into other technologies that will increase plant response while being energy efficient, with long life, spectrally stable, and low heat was and continues to be targeting LED systems. As this presentation leans towards too. However my belief in induction or a hybrid solution of induction/led comes from the fact that I'm going on three years with some of my induction lamps, without a relamp, and I run them continuously veg-flower on perpetuals while drawing 1/2 the power and dealing with 1/3 the heat from my previous HID gardens.

There is no doubt from what I've been seeing that it is the addition of diodes on their Pontoon that allows even greater production values as the 730nm diodes running exclusively at lights out can mimic sunset for faster Pfr response. The 660nm diodes also enhance from 25 to 35% in the R-FR regions of the lights overall flux output.

What I especially liked from the OSRAM presentation is on page 5 where they fess up that the current methods of measuring plant lighting are, as they put it; 'inadequate'. And this from a major HID lamp manufacturer. Priceless!!

 

[chazbolin]

Day 28 Veg Update: As you can see since my last update all the girls have made a nice comeback. I'm liking the new line of Bontanicare 'Kind' nutes and the inda-gro lighting pulled some very distressed plants back from the brink. The GSC and 213 had been the worst and they're all looking good too. I went to the 4 x 4 tray and will trellis a 5 x 5 area. I plan on flipping today and will run a 14/10 flowering schedule adding the Pontoon during the entire run. Outdoor temps have been in the 85-90 ranges but so far I have not had to turn the AC on yet. Those outdoor shots are of the 213 just about to go in and the outdoor cups are the GSC clones that I took out a week ago.




bud porn next week!

 

[alanrandolf]

If you're not a fan of fluorescent for indoor grow then EFDL may never interest you and you'd never give it a second thought. But to those of you who may not be familiar with the term EFDL it's short for electrodeless fluorescent discharged lamp. EFDL lamps are a type of fluorescent lamp but there are major differences between EFDL and conventional fluorescent lamps. An EFDL lamps relies on magnets that surround the fused glass sections to excite the gasses inside the lamp. Escaping gas and carbon build up on the electrodes inside the lamp (blackened ends) reduce lumen output. EFDL lamps don't have these issues since there are no electrodes to attract carbon and they don't have a screw or pin base connection where gasses can escape.​

 

[chazbolin]

Week 7 Flower Update
Strains: VGH OG, Lemon Kush x Afghani , Sno Cap, Orange Cream Sickle, King Louie XIII, El Diablo OG, and Presidential OG.

Lighting: 8 ea., Inda-Gro Pro-420 Pontoon Combo (3,680 watts) all running on a single 20 amp 240 v circuit

Flowering Photoperiod: 14/10
Nutrients: Botanicare KIND

This room had been run on ten 1000 watt HPS lamps on a 12/12 schedule. They had ran on a flip box with the ballasts sitting in the swamp cooler exhaust ducts. By converting to the 420-Pontoons we eliminated all the din rail, relays and got rid of the HID ballasts in the ducting which gave us better air flow. Overall the branch circuit wiring is cleaner now and we've dropped the load by 65%. This garden is setup on a single point pulley system for e ach light so they can raise the lights to work in there. What I'm also hearing is that swinging them makes a kind of light mover out if it. Who knows they may be on to something here.

 

[chazbolin]

BUSTED! I don't know what these guys were thinking posting up the Inda-Gro Pro-420 lights on their page saying that these are their lights but the Green Spirit Farms author checked them on it. There is little doubt that these guys are the true descendants of the little known but now extinct Brontosaurus Dumbassius.

https://www.facebook.com/Igrowinduction/posts/329868160480280

 

[chazbolin]

And while igrow will quickly work to delete every post that brings this little 'misstatement' up on their FB page, Green Spirit Farms will let it lay out there for all to see as I understand they are pretty pissed.

This is the post where the author called them out: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Green-Spirit-Farms/294500320601446

 

[chazbolin]

Here's a little day 16 update on my 5 x 5 tent. After the OG hermied I'm now down to the 2 GSC, 1 Blueberry Dream and 1 DreamQueen. But the upside is I'll spread the pots out a bit more. With some super cropping I'm keeping the canopy pretty even and as you can see I'm getting good coverage with the single lamp with the outside edges keeping up and no bending towards the light. So far everything is healthy and perky. Outside temps have been running in the 85-95 ranges but I'm keeping good air flow in the garage with one of those roof mount exhaust fans and the 5000 btu AC in the tent is keeping temps at 75-78 with no problems. Most of the time it's not even running.

 

[The Hippy]

Great thread here and I really appreciate your sharing your trial and grow! Lots of detail and great documented pics and vids.
I'm also a induction user and found this all very informative. I'm used to using HPS and MH lamps so this is a real eye opener using these new type lights.
I'm gonna start a thread in the
Cannabis Infirmary

help area for some issues I'm having. don't want to cloud this thread at all.
Thanks again for all this work Chazbolin

 

[chazbolin]

Thanks Hippy! It's a treat sharing with all the great folks here on the Farm. It's made be a better grower and hopefully some of my posts have inspired others as well.

IG released a vertical version of their 420 series. For any of you growing trees these are lightweight and easily stackable to cover the GIANTS top to bottom. They also have a custom Pontoon that can be added as an accessory to the vertical. Very cool indeed.

You can see it on their products page or this is a quick link to the white sheet.