Container Size - Big pot less transplant stress but are there downsides?

[Scythe]

I'm growing in soil (first timer, first harvest a few weeks away), and I read that people are transplanting only once, going from a seed/clone starter pot (or rootcube, etc.) direct to the big 2, 3, or 5-gallon pot that the plant will be in for the rest of its life.

I did this, but I think it was a mistake. Common horticultural wisdom dictates that you transplant into pots only a little bigger than previous. (Anyone know why?) They say if you do bigger, the plant suffers, and now I might tend to agree.

Reasons:

1. I was afraid to flush if I over-fertilized, cuz water would sit on the bottom where there are no roots yet FOREVER, inviting mold and other problems.

2. I worried about salt buildup, cuz if fertilizer is getting to a place there aren't roots yet, won't it build up there?

3. This is a minor point, but it was harder to judge how much water a plant was using. In a small pot, I could feel the pot get lighter and lighter until 1-3 days later, it was time to water again. With a bigger pot, they just stayed heavy and wet for a long time (which could be good if I need to go away for a week, though).

4. I wondered if such a big pot with such a long time between waterings would mess up the fertilization schedule. I read that at 0.8 EC (400 ppm) you should expect to fertilizer maybe every 7-10 days. But is that for when you might've watered (and therefore flushed a bit) between? Information on the topic of fertilization seems very scarce. Any help?

I guess that's about it, so any advice on container size, big vs. small in terms of transplant stress vs. other problems will be greatly appreciated! Next grow, I'm going to do that many transplant thing unless I hear otherwise.

Thanks!

 

[Redskywalker]

Usually the bigger the pot the longer you must veg your plants so they grow into the soil. I read lots of people doing the one huge jump but I don't agree with that because roots grow out til they hit the container then go around and around so if you put a tiny plant in a large container most of the centre soil ends up being almost completely void if roots. You have it right when you only up size slightly, just transplant a couple times if ya want bigger plants. They will endup wth nice dense root balls. And bigger roots mean bigger buds.

 

[hempluvr]

I go from plastic cup right to 3 gallon containers. I have never had any problems this way.
But I also keep them in cups at least 3-4 weeks(depends on the plant)

 

[7rayos]

As it's said, in order of getting denser roots it's necessary going on smaller stages. Roots grow towards the sides of the pot, then follow down to the bottom. If you put them in a large pot straight from a very little one, the roots won't colonize the whole pot, although they'll grow fine too apparently, you'd get bigger yields when repotting 3+ times.
Another reason is when sexing, if you want to get rid of males or unworthy plants, using too much soil is a waste.
As for to avoid build up of salts and the like, a ph balanced water left resting for at least 24 hours and some enzymes will take care of that. I also lower the ph with lemon juice. It's not very estable, but after a few measures you catch the dose, and the extra anti-oxidants will benefit the absortion of nutes.
Plants in soil aren't as demanding of precission as hydro or others,but for the frequency of watering i tend to judge for the weight of the pot. Again, a few times doing this will give accuracy.
A well prepared soil and some extra algae will take care of the growing stage, let the plant show its needs, as it's difficult to establish a nute's program valid for all.
Now i don't say you won't get better results if you follow very accurate programs, only that it's better that you develop your own. Good luck with it

 

[Scythe]

Another problem with my big pots I noticed today was that the top would be dry, but the bottom still very wet. This means some upper roots might be underwatered, but if I water, the bottom may get overwatered. Hempluvr, how do you avoid this problem and the other problems I describe in my first post?

7rayos, to avoid salt build up, what do you do with the pH balanced water and enzymes? Is it that you let it sit 24-hours, then water the plant with it? Is it necessary for some to come out the drain holes? I would think so, cuz otherwise nutes would build up in the lower part of the pot, right?

 

[7rayos]

Well, a good drainage is needed, of course, so the water doesn't pile up in the bottom. As you water more than it takes, the bottom of the pot renews that water. What i do is i water until i see a little of it going, slowly too. It's no good to water too dry compost as sometimes it doesn't soak properly and most goes on the sides, so you see it going but the compost still not wet enough. To make water easier for the compost to absorb, you can add a drop of liquid soap. What enzymes do is they dissolve the salts that get attached to the roots and stop them to absorb, and resting water is for chloride to evaporates. Nice ph balanced and rested water avoids about 90% of trouble. In the bottom of the pot you put something like arlite, say 5cms, also that helps to avoid the build up of salts.

 

[Scythe]

I keep reading about flushing and watering so some comes out the bottom, but my friend who's been growing for ten years was adamant that if I watered his plants like that, I'd kill 'em. They were in 5-gallon pots and in flowering, sick from over-fert, but he was very sure flushing would over-water and kill them because the pot was too big. Is that true?

On one of my over-fertilized plants, it's in a 2.5 gallon pot, and I flushed. It seems to be doing okay after about a week, but the pot is still very heavy with wet dirt. Maybe this is okay? I didn't flush the plants in my 5-gal pots though cuz of the fear my friend put into me. Those might take a month to dry out!

 

[7rayos]

What kind of humidity have you got there? For a 2'5 gallons a week is about normal in average spring climate, but no longer than that. How's the drainage? It's true that when the substrate is continuously wet might rot the root system. Also, it depends on how big are the plants, and another reason why not to put tiny young ones in big pots.
I see what your friend means, and he'll have a better opinion as he can see them. This is what i'd do, although is a touch rough and might damage some roots, but with a length of wire i'd do some holes in the substrate, also heating a screwdriver and making some extra holes in the bottom of the pot for improving drainage and also i'd allow some space for keeping it a few inches from the floor. Your substrate might lack from airing, that's why the holes with the wire, next time mix it generously with perlite or vermiculite or both and you'll see a big improvement when handling them.

 

[bubbak]

there are pots that air prune (holes on the sides) and what this does besides stopping a plant from being rootbound is the plant starts to grow a dense root ball, so if you're going to size up bigger than usual i would suggest a super roots pot or similar

 

[Scythe]

I recently added a humidifier, but before, humidity was actually very low, like 20-30%. The soil is Miracle Grow and seemed to have good drainage, but given that it's been well over a week now, it might not. Looks like I'll have to poke some holes and get better soil next time. Thanks for all the help. Bubbak, I'll try that if I decide to size up bigger than usual next time. Thanks also.

 

[Nutshell]

ditch the Miracle Grow and pick up some Pro Mix. Shouldnt have to transplant more than twice per grow. once from clone into veg pot, then a second time a few days before you begin to flower.

 

[Freeflyscott]

I'm growing in soil (first timer, first harvest a few weeks away), and I read that people are transplanting only once, going from a seed/clone starter pot (or rootcube, etc.) direct to the big 2, 3, or 5-gallon pot that the plant will be in for the rest of its life.

I did this, but I think it was a mistake. Common horticultural wisdom dictates that you transplant into pots only a little bigger than previous. (Anyone know why?) They say if you do bigger, the plant suffers, and now I might tend to agree.

Reasons:

1. I was afraid to flush if I over-fertilized, cuz water would sit on the bottom where there are no roots yet FOREVER, inviting mold and other problems.

2. I worried about salt buildup, cuz if fertilizer is getting to a place there aren't roots yet, won't it build up there?

3. This is a minor point, but it was harder to judge how much water a plant was using. In a small pot, I could feel the pot get lighter and lighter until 1-3 days later, it was time to water again. With a bigger pot, they just stayed heavy and wet for a long time (which could be good if I need to go away for a week, though).

4. I wondered if such a big pot with such a long time between waterings would mess up the fertilization schedule. I read that at 0.8 EC (400 ppm) you should expect to fertilizer maybe every 7-10 days. But is that for when you might've watered (and therefore flushed a bit) between? Information on the topic of fertilization seems very scarce. Any help?

I guess that's about it, so any advice on container size, big vs. small in terms of transplant stress vs. other problems will be greatly appreciated! Next grow, I'm going to do that many transplant thing unless I hear otherwise.

Thanks!

I did this and ran into some huge troubles the start of one season a while back.
Yes you are correct with your assumption that going straight to a large pot was a mistake. (ALWAYS trust your gut and instinct it never lies btw). This issue with going straight into a big pot is that the roots do not get enough oxygen. This will GREATLY slow your growth as well as possibly killing your plant due to over watering OR underwater. The plant is small and in a small container where it is getting oxygen, and then you put it into a HUGE pot where its roots are no where near long enough to reach through all that dirt and get its much needed oxygen. Imagine if you were in a swimming pool, Say 8ft deep, and your at the bottom swimming up to get air. Probably won't take u too long to get to the surface agree? Now say your for some reason at the bottom of the ocean and you swim up to get air...probably gunna die before you get there. ITs the same principle more or less (don't mind my shitty analogies).
Ever since i have a massive fuck up going to a larger pot and almost losing all babies, I have used fabric or breathable pots. Most ppl know them as "Smart Pots". I literally just transplanted out of one right now and its like 4 months old ( one of my mothers) and there was ABSOLUTLY NO ROOT BALL. The roots don't turn inwards and strangle the plant when they're in fabric pots. I HIGHLY HIGHLY SUGGEST Trying them!

Also, IF you don't have or can't obtain fabric pot, Stick some slurpie straws in there. (the ones with the scoop) and head the end with a lighter so they curve back up towards the top of the straw than jam them in your soil.

Keep it real.

 

[DGP]

Mine went right into 10 gallon pots and then into 30 gallon and when I translanted them the 10's were full of roots. Now they are getting huge. I use fabric pots and I avoid transplanting more than once. If you don't over water they will fill the pots because they are actively seeking water. If it were true that going to a big pot right away makes the plant not fill the space then how is it when you grow the seed directly in the ground outside it gets huge and yields more than any potted plant?

There is a saying about roots: no roots no fruit.

Not trying to start an argument just wondering how this could be....

Dee

 

[RippedTorn]

Look outdoors, there's your answer. Plastic pot growers are suffocating their roots. Growstore gullibles cause all their own problems then call the return to normal a "advanced tech". Transplanting sucks.

 

[RuralFarmer]

I noticed this is an old thread someone replied to. I never transplant. I start my beans in the same container they will finish in (feminized), and when I'm done, the entire container is full of roots. I have good success, good yields. :cool:
If you plant corn in the ground outside, do you dig it up and transplant? Lol.

 

[RR1]

The trick, is no trick at all. Using cloth type pots,(smart, eco), in conjunction with a proper soil mix that maintains aeration is a must.
What am I talking about?
Your soil must maintain a certain amount of moisture, while maintaining good drainage. If it holds moisture too long, oxygen levels drop, and the soil gets stagnant. Holds too little moisture, plants don’t have enough to survive. And your microbes don’t stay active enough.
Here’s a good starter soil for the new folks:
20 lbs promix with mychorrizae
4 lbs work castings
Small bag of perlite, forget how much is in there.
This is your baby base.
Water regularly in a bin, aerate every few days. Let it work in a warm place for a week or two.
I personally use Subcools recipe for soils. I leave in bins for 4-6 months, water and aerate once a week.
The good bacteria proliferate, along with viruses from worm castings. Organic and minerals break down into very usable forms. After 6 months it is beautiful organic soil. Smell it. Sweet, earthy, and doesn’t burn.
For the new folks, remember the soil doesn’t feed your plants, the bugs in the soil colonize the roots and deposit their waste onto the roots. One of the reasons I use Plant-Tone is the amount of different bacteria in it.
But I digress, a good soil with lots of perlite or vermiculite will keep a good balance of moisture and oxygen.
Look what the nursery people do.
And if you use Miracle Grow for your weed, don’t tell me. You people make me crazy.
Have fun and relax,
RR1

 

[RR1]

PS
Ten gal smart pot, baby base soil in top third,aged Subcool soil with lots of nutes in bottom two thirds. The plants will grow roots into the hotter soil as they can take it. You’ll still need to top feed at some point, but it’s a nice way to start.

 

[JWM2]

Super easy soil mix:

1/3 perlite
1/3 coco coir
1/3 foxfarm ocean forest

Mix it up and use as needed. I also use this when transplanting just before flowering. This mix will give you great drainage and water retention. But yeah ditch the miracle grow soil. That will be a huge improvement on your next grow. Your plants will love it ;-)