Defoamers?

[bibbles]

Everything I mixed today:
20gal RO
10ml/gal Canna Coco A+B
1.87ml/gal MBFerts Vitamines and Hormones
0.4ml/gal Drip Clean (probably redundant with Carefree)
0.3ml/gal Dip-n-grow (V&H should have replaced this)
0.15ml/gal Carefree Pond and Fountain
0.5g/gal AgSil 16H
0.25g/gal hydrolyzed whey protein

Trying out some new stuff, used about 15 gallons, and left the rest for tonight; however, the bubbles which weren't breaking immediately have escalated into a foam that may cause reservoir issues if not dealt with, and I'm flipping tonight. I suspect the whey is causing the foam, and I was hoping someone might have a solution (or correction)?

At the moment I'm leaning toward Microbe-Lift Defoamer, though Five Star Defoamer 105 is appealing with it's application rate of a drop per five gallons. I already have some hydrolyzed fish which I use to defoam tea, but... I don't think this is the place for that.

Thanks! :D

 

[bibbles]

Oh, I'm great on the tea front, and while fish hydrolysate does eliminate foam, it does so by effecting surface tension, not by killing that bacterial growth; in fact, it'll help that, and it's inexpensive! There are far better minds on the topic who have already written up more than I know, and I would highly recommend you look into it.

Here's a decent post on the topic. :) https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/what-is-high-quality-fish-hydrolysate-for-act-tea.80975/

My issue is that protein can be foamy, just like in a protein shake; at least, that's what I presume the issue is, it might be the AgSil or V&H, I mixed them with a pump today so they were all in there by the time air was added. One by one with air next time should provide an answer.

 

[bibbles]

The foam is a product of bacterial secretions altering the surface tension, the bacteria themselves live in the tea, where the food is. And yes, microbiologists have done their thing; like I said, better minds.

As it so happens, you are on the perfect forum to learn about microbial teas; there's an entire subform dedicated to the topic, with many brilliant threads, and reading them will really up your game:

 

[bibbles]

This thread just isn't about tea, chill.

 

[PharmHand]

Like you said fish hydro helps keep the foam down, pretty sure it's the oils in it. For me it keeps it down for about 24 hours in my brewer. And according to much smarter people than me, contrary to commonly held beliefs,too much foam in a tea smothers and kills aerobic microbes by depriving them of oxygen -basically a wet blanket. There's a product made called storch oil specifically made for reducing foam in teas. But you're trying to reduce foam in your nute solution correct? Surfactants like yucca increase foam and heavy aeration can cause protein fractionation pulling proteins and other organics out of your solution accumulating in the foam on the surface of the solution similar to a protein skimmer. Add the fish hydro I say, u have it on hand, why not?

 

[bibbles]

I was a bit concerned about growth in the reservoir, and filters clogging, but Neptune's appears to be sufficiently filtered, and given the aeration any growth should be neutral to beneficial, so I will be adding it to the next mix, hopefully after determining the culprit. IIRC, Aptus Fasilitor foamed, so AgSil might be the problem... I'd say this foam is about half way between that and Sea Green in appearance?

Upside, the foam isn't particularly thick, and collapses fairly easily; in fact, it looks like it's growth was largely the result of the solution level falling below the cross breeze of fans, et al, so the hydrolysate should be more effective/longer lasting than in the tea, especially as nothing's eating it.

Today is day one, and I don't expect to actually set up the reservoir and irrigation for another week or two since things fit under fewer lights for now...

 

[PharmHand]

Apparently the storch oil is fish oil, neem oil and karanga oil and it says you only need a few drops to suppress foam in a tea..... Bet you could make something similar really easily without the additional hydrolysed fish protein.

 

[bibbles]

Word? I searched my ass off when they introduced it to figure that out, because I felt it was really overpriced, but shortly thereafter made the move to Cap's, discovered Neptune's, and gave up on the search. I think I tried neem once, I don't remember if it worked, the DIY vortex I had at the time didn't produce a ton of foam to begin with, and I probably had similar concerns about not having that visual confirmation of biological activity.

Ah, the days of trying to learn the basics while running aeroponics.

 

[twerkle]

Hey bro, the bubbles are from MB ferts aminos. Only use that in soiless medium. In rdwc or similar use the l-gly powder. I used both but honestly the commercial powder is way better. The protien has a huge selection of aminos but many like (tryptophan) are needless cause the hormone you use has root agents in it anyways. (tryptophan turns in to IAA orIBA i forget).

Source: use whey in coco and reg powder in rdwc.

 

[twerkle]

Also if you are set on using the whey in dwc then only add it 2 or 2 days before ur weekly rez change or it gets funky.

 

[bibbles]

I considered the L-Glycine powder, but research suggested that L-Glutamine was important as well; I'm actually growing in coco, but in switching to blumats I gained a reservoir.

One can buy powdered L-Glutamine as well, but I couldn't find any information regarding plant use, though apparently some people use it to counter the munchies and memory loss when smoking? That's as far as I got.

Perhaps I'll move the whey to once a week with my tea flushes? Hmm...

 

[twerkle]

https://hydrobuilder.com/npk-indust...MI8frn5fuF2QIVEonICh1ZoAzvEAkYASABEgJOR_D_BwE



these guys make something close thats glumatic acid, more pricey tho

 

[GT21]

The "Foam" is an explosion of live population of micro-bacteria. See:

The "Foam" is beneficial to your plants so ridding of the foam is a killing of the live culture that is the main purpose for the tea and food for your soil.

Is the issue overflow? Create a 1/2 batch 2x as often as you would a 1/1 batch.

Boom

 

[bibbles]

https://hydrobuilder.com/npk-indust...MI8frn5fuF2QIVEonICh1ZoAzvEAkYASABEgJOR_D_BwE



these guys make something close thats glumatic acid, more pricey tho

Any idea how this differs from ominA from NPK?

Boom

You are suggesting that I'm going from whey and salt to a fully brewed tea in 20 minutes.

It doesn't work like that. :/

 

[GT21]

Any idea how this differs from ominA from NPK?


You are suggesting that I'm going from whey and salt to a fully brewed tea in 20 minutes.

It doesn't work like that. :/

K...you got this

 

[bibbles]

The protein content was found to be significantly correlated to parameters representative of foam stability, as were the amino acids arginine, asparagine, histidine, and tyrosine.

Protein is foamy, the free proteins that result from biological activity is why tea foams. What you guys are doing is called assuming the consequent, you're seeing evidence (a wet street), and assuming the cause (rain), without consideration of alternative causes (sprinklers).

 

[twerkle]

Any idea how this differs from ominA from NPK?


You are suggesting that I'm going from whey and salt to a fully brewed tea in 20 minutes.

It doesn't work like that. :/

ominA is a plant hydrolase, basically the whey you are using from MBFerts but isntead of being made from milk protien its made from plant protien. The l-gly is just the amino, shouldn't foam as much. Also usually hydrolase is a mixture of a ton of aminos, some you need some you don't. My worry about ominA and mbferts whey is there a high enough concentration of the correct aminos to do anything? mb ferts has a list of grams of amino per 100gs and only 10g l glyc i think per 100. I'm not sure whats better strong dose of one amino or a mixture of all kinds. Prolly need to do some more testing on my end.

 

[bibbles]

In terms of the aminos the plant doesn't use, they may still be used by microorganisms in the rhizosphere which, in turn, benefit the plant; isn't that how molasses works, at least broadly speaking? It's not so much that the plant uptakes carbs, but rather the plant feeds the microbes carbs as part of a natural symbiosis, and the added carbs escalate this interaction (or replace it when the plant stops sending carbs in senescence)? It's been a while since I looked into this.

Certainly, there are a few discussions I've seen concerning the addition of whey to compost teas pre-brew, though I don't recall seeing much more than musings. Either way, diversifying microbial food sources is probably good.

I think I've settled on adding the whey to my tea drenches/foliars post-brew, once a week, at least for now. Kinda nice though that if I choose to switch, I can consume the whey, rather trying to figure out what to do with it, or use up the rest of it.

 

[twerkle]

In terms of the aminos the plant doesn't use, they may still be used by microorganisms in the rhizosphere which, in turn, benefit the plant; isn't that how molasses works, at least broadly speaking? It's not so much that the plant uptakes carbs, but rather the plant feeds the microbes carbs as part of a natural symbiosis, and the added carbs escalate this interaction (or replace it when the plant stops sending carbs in senescence)? It's been a while since I looked into this.

Certainly, there are a few discussions I've seen concerning the addition of whey to compost teas pre-brew, though I don't recall seeing much more than musings. Either way, diversifying microbial food sources is probably good.

I think I've settled on adding the whey to my tea drenches/foliars post-brew, once a week, at least for now. Kinda nice though that if I choose to switch, I can consume the whey, rather trying to figure out what to do with it, or use up the rest of it.

No this is def correct, aminos also chelate other stuff for uptake into your plant. but like i said stuff like tryptophan is basically the rooting compound IAA so you if you are adding hormone from mbferts then u dont need tryptophan cause hormone already has IBA in it.

 

[bibbles]

True, and it would probably replace Dripclean/Carefree. No reason I can't irrigate one and add the other with the tea I suppose; after all, this is going to last a long time unless I consume it.

What rate do you use it at?