Do carbon filters scrub the air of co2???

[deftron]

I have been researching this for over a week and cannot find a definitive answer.

You can realize my frustration with this conundrum, as these filters contain activated carbon.

But if these filters scrub everything from "odors, gases and fumes" how does the entire growing community use them in closed loop, sealed rooms or other scenarios where the air is recycled and scrubbed.

I'm guessing they only remove some of the carbon dioxide therefore making your burner work overtime?

Furthermore, don't natural gas/propane burners depend on oxygen to safely and succesfully operate? Do plants emit enough oxygen to facilitate this?

Any help is greatly appreciated. I hate when theres like fifty new threads asking the same question so i did try to research this as much as possible only to find out said filters remove "odors, gases and fumes". Fudge......

 

[convex]

Scrubbers will only remove CO2 if vented outside the room, they will not adsorb your CO2.

 

[sedate]

But if these filters scrub everything from "odors, gases and fumes" how does the entire growing community use them in closed loop, sealed rooms or other scenarios where the air is recycled and scrubbed.

I'm guessing they only remove some of the carbon dioxide therefore making your burner work overtime?

Do carbon filters remove co2?

No.

Carbon filters are very fine filters that scrub the air by providing millions of little pores that allow air molocules to pass - small o2 and co2 and n2 molocules are not nearly large enough to be trapped by a carbon filter - or really any filter for that matter. A membrane that would trap air like that would be "air tight" - like saran wrap or something.

Gases (like smoke), odors, and fumes, are all MUCH larger molocules - like 10's or 100's or 1000's of x's larger than the little o2 and co2 molocules that make up pure air.

With co2 or o2 or n2, you only have two or three molocules that make up the substance - with odors or fumes you would have hundreds.

The size of the molocule determines whether or not it will be absorbed by a carbon filter.

Furthermore, don't natural gas/propane burners depend on oxygen to safely and succesfully operate? Do plants emit enough oxygen to facilitate this?

The idea is to run the burner as necessary to keep the co2 PPM in a few hundred higher than the atmosphere would be.

You wouldn't be able to run the burner in a sealed room all day.

But it wouldn't explode if it ran out of o2 - it would just self-extinguish. But if the room got like that, it'd be toxic to the plants (that would be 1000x of PPM's of carbon dioxide) and certainly deadly to the human operator of that room.

EDIT:

Here, watch this:
http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Marvels-Carbon-History-Channel/dp/B0028J2932

 

[ColoraDro]

The way I run my scrubber to ensure all the co2 is being used by the plants is like this...

Carbon scrubber>>fan>>>duct>>light>>>duct>>>light>>> exhaust out the tent...

5 minutes before the co2 is supposed to go on I have the fan on a timer to shut off, then the co2 kicks on and pumps its 15 minutes worth of co2 and then shuts off while the fan still stays off for around 10-15 minutes so the plants can get whatever is still left and then boom the fan goes on and things return back to normal temps and shit minutes later...

Keep in mind the plants can have higher room temps with no problems if you are using your co2 right!

I hope I helped
Dro

 

[sedate]

then the co2 kicks on and pumps its 15 minutes worth of co2 and then shuts off while the fan still stays off for around 10-15 minutes so the plants can get whatever is still left and then boom the fan goes on and things return back to normal temps and shit minutes later...

Um. This isn't helping your plants much dude.

In fact I think all you are doing is really stressing out your plants for 30 minute a day.

You're exhausting the co2 long before they'll have a chance to use it.

The process that turns co2 into plant growth is continual, and goes throughout the light cycle - so dumping co2 on them for 15 minutes the way you might a fertilizer - isn't going to sustain the higher co2 levels over the course of the grow.

The stomata on the leaves absorb co2 as the plants require it for photosynthesis - it isn't stored in some part of the leaf for later use.

Unless you can artificially raise co2 PPM for multiple sustained hours, at a manageable temperature, you're wasting your efforts here.

EDIT:

The right way is to run an open loop cooling system for your lights, but one that starts and ends OUTSIDE the grow area, so your lights are isolated from the grow room air.

Outside>Duct>Hood>Duct>Back outside again

The cooling is accomplished by another closed loop system - an A/C - so the co2 enriched air remains cool AND co2 enriched.

 

[Lost]

When people think carbon scrubber they think applications like the Space Shuttle, or underwater rebreathers that do use a carbon scrubbing system that removes the CO2, but it is not just a simple carbon fliter, but a more involved chemical process (my stoned mind remembers something about calcium carbonate.)

 

[sedate]

Right. Those use sodium hydroxide to form carbonic acid - to "scrub" the carbon from the air.

After the chemical catalyst is exhausted, you have to switch to a new scrubber. So we get that cool scene in Apollo 13.

I think today's space craft use fuel cells to create o2 and h2o.

 

[mace]

@ ColoraDro, sedate is right, you're not really using much of that co2 that you're paying for. CO2 is absorbed during photosynthesis, which occura all day long in a plant. The 15 minute shot you give it isn't really doing much. I recommend doing as they suggested and using a closed loop for your lights to cool them, outside air>lights> back outside. The Carbon scrubber can remain in the room and active all day if you'd like, it will kill the smell and leave the co2 behind for your plants to use.

 

[deftron]

Thank you sedate, lost, convex and mace. Its funny once you rack your brain over something for too long you kind of lose sight of common sense. Just had to make sure though.

Hypothetically you could just scrub the air within the room not venting it anywhere, yes?

Do you think this method would contribute to a "positive" environment? (Negative environments are best for sealed rooms, negative air pressure makes sure air isnt being pushed through pinholes, cracks, etc).

Me thinks thats how im gunna "get-r-dun"

 

[sedate]

Its funny once you rack your brain over something for too long you kind of lose sight of common sense. Just had to make sure though.

Sure. Happens to me all the time.

Hypothetically you could just scrub the air within the room not venting it anywhere, yes?

Well sure, but with HID lighting even the largest of rooms will get awfully hot over the course of a day - even with vented hoods the radiated heat from any substantial amount of HID lighting will result in some problematic heat buildup. Chances are you'll need an A/C in there somewhere . . .

Do you think this method would contribute to a "positive" environment? (Negative environments are best for sealed rooms, negative air pressure makes sure air isnt being pushed through pinholes, cracks, etc).

No, this isn't right.

Pressure differentials will always result in air being pushed in some direction - in or out. If the air pressure in the grow room is positive in relation to the air pressure outside the room, the air will just flow from the grow room out whatever escape hatch that it has.

Besides, you won't be able to create a pressurized room in a home without 10 or 20K worth of heavy equipment and prolly some sort of construction permit.

Air pressure will reach an equilibrium one way or the other.

Your best bet is to
1) seal up the room as best you can with caulk and weather-stripping.
2) add enough closed-loop cooling for the room to cope with the lighting (ie, a stand-alone A/C unit, prepare to open the wallet)
3) Open-loop cooling for the hoods that intakes OUTSIDE and exhausts OUTSIDE
4) Add a co2 controller and set it to 600-800 PPM and have it cut on and off with your lights.

 

[deftron]

word.....

 

[deftron]

No, this isn't right.

Pressure differentials will always result in air being pushed in some direction - in or out. If the air pressure in the grow room is positive in relation to the air pressure outside the room, the air will just flow from the grow room out whatever escape hatch that it has.

Besides, you won't be able to create a pressurized room in a home without 10 or 20K worth of heavy equipment and prolly some sort of construction permit.

Air pressure will reach an equilibrium one way or the other.

I'm just kind of tossing these terms around for practical use. I dont mean a true to definition positive or negative environment.


EX: If your intake is 600cfm and your exhaust is 720 cfm you have created a negative environment, is my understanding. Could also be used in conjunction with a lung room? Where air could be cooled, dehumidified, etc. (Resulting lung room would be a "positive" environment. which is kewl, no stank up in there.)

Or do you think they would just reach an "equilibrium", as you've said.

PS I'm already setup but this is interesting to me and theres always room for improvement.

 

[ColoraDro]

Um. This isn't helping your plants much dude.

In fact I think all you are doing is really stressing out your plants for 30 minute a day.

You're exhausting the co2 long before they'll have a chance to use it.

The process that turns co2 into plant growth is continual, and goes throughout the light cycle - so dumping co2 on them for 15 minutes the way you might a fertilizer - isn't going to sustain the higher co2 levels over the course of the grow.

The stomata on the leaves absorb co2 as the plants require it for photosynthesis - it isn't stored in some part of the leaf for later use.

Unless you can artificially raise co2 PPM for multiple sustained hours, at a manageable temperature, you're wasting your efforts here.

EDIT:

The right way is to run an open loop cooling system for your lights, but one that starts and ends OUTSIDE the grow area, so your lights are isolated from the grow room air.

Outside>Duct>Hood>Duct>Back outside again

The cooling is accomplished by another closed loop system - an A/C - so the co2 enriched air remains cool AND co2 enriched.

Haha yeah dude I stress my plants so much they get over 300 grams dried medicine....
What some people don't realize is that not every enviroment is the same and believe me I know what I'm doing so all that science goes out the window when the grow is done cause in the end my buds are solid and finished...

I may not be at scientific as most growers but I know what my plants need and they have a steady enviroment and that is all that matters!

An old friend always told me KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID HAHA

 

[sedate]

I may not be at scientific as most growers but I know what my plants need and they have a steady enviroment and that is all that matters!

?

In point of fact, they don't really have that steady of an environment - you said so your self when you described how you do co2 injection.

I'm glad your happy with your yeilds, but they don't have anything to do with your co2 injection.

And I was just trying to help you - since you are paying for that co2 one way or another - as it stands, you might as well be opening your window and frittering away dollar bills.

But if that's your bag, I certainly don't want to get in your way . . .

 

[mace]

Haha yeah dude I stress my plants so much they get over 300 grams dried medicine....
What some people don't realize is that not every enviroment is the same and believe me I know what I'm doing so all that science goes out the window when the grow is done cause in the end my buds are solid and finished...

I may not be at scientific as most growers but I know what my plants need and they have a steady enviroment and that is all that matters!

An old friend always told me KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID HAHA

All that "science" huh? Well for the sake of any newbies reading this thread you are, in fact, doing it wrong. And without context of wattage/square foot/number of plants you have in your setup, simply implying you get 300 grams from a plant means nothing.

Science is science, and the uptake of Co2 is a proven fact. Those 30 mins a day you give your plant of added CO2 is great, but in reality you're wasting most of the gas you're paying for by venting it from your room before the plants have the chance to uptake the CO2 out of the air.

 

[sedate]

All that "science" huh? Well for the sake of any newbies reading this thread you are, in fact, doing it wrong.

Ha. Yea really.

Dro, learn to take good advice dude. A little more foresight and fistful of weatherstripping and a clamp or two you might be able to rework that to be - uhh - useful.

EX: If your intake is 600cfm and your exhaust is 720 cfm you have created a negative environment, is my understanding. Could also be used in conjunction with a lung room? Where air could be cooled, dehumidified, etc. (Resulting lung room would be a "positive" environment. which is kewl, no stank up in there.)

I'm not sure I follow this precisely - but you don't need the intake fan to get the air out of the room. The exhaust fan will suck air in through the intake at roughly the rate (generally the free-flow CFM rating minus whatever frictional losses along any duct work) of the exhaust fan.

In terms of "flow" you'd want both fans exhausting - in terms of "pressure" you'd put them in a line.

This thread does a good job of explaining it:



I have no idea what a "lung room" is.

 

[brookstown]

Scrubbers will only remove CO2 if vented outside the room, they will not adsorb your CO2.

What!... so if it goes out of the room it cleans it out and if it recirculates then it let's it pass through? You should market that.... smart filter. It actually knows where the air is going and... decide how to clean it.

lol

but to answer the origin ?, I don't know.

 

[Rolln J]

what convex was saying is if you vent outside it will remove your co2 - not because its a scrubber...

 

[brookstown]

Haha yeah dude I stress my plants so much they get over 300 grams dried medicine....
What some people don't realize is that not every enviroment is the same and believe me I know what I'm doing so all that science goes out the window when the grow is done cause in the end my buds are solid and finished...

I may not be at scientific as most growers but I know what my plants need and they have a steady enviroment and that is all that matters!

An old friend always told me KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID HAHA

I hope you mean 300g per plant.

And you are kinda missing the point. Of course you can make it work but... if your were to listen a bit and lose your ego. you might be able to get 400 or more per.

Just a thougt and no one here knows everything... Well maybe one guy but enough on that.

 

[brookstown]

OH, i see what your saying.

funkin stoner