Does The Efficiency Of 600w Justify Start Cost Vs 1000w? An Analysis, Input Wanted

  • Thread starter KarmaPharmer
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
KarmaPharmer

KarmaPharmer

23
3
Hey everybody, hope your having a good day :smoking:


So I am moving back to indoors after a few years hiatus, before I was working with a long time indoor grower, now I am taking this on my self.
New place, new set up.
I have learned a lot about gardening lately and am definitely going to start a journal once things are really up and running. Super excited!!

anyways, onto my questions

Does the efficiency (and less worry about heating) of 600w HPS or 600w DE HPS justify starting costs of getting multiple hoods, ballasts, etc.

versus just getting the 1000w lights
(Miniquestion, how does everyone like DE HPS?)


So I plan on keeping this grow going for the next two years, possibly more.
As of right now I do plan on getting ducting and some fans so the heat from the bulbs is vented away and I can get the lights close to the canopy and keep the room temp controlled. Also this should help heat the rest of my house for winter, Ill vent outdoors come summer.


Set up: Say I am going to go by the "general rule" of 50watts/sq. ft. I am going to set up with 3000 watts - And let me say that yes watts and lumens are not ideal measurements for plant lighting, but they are useful in comparing here.

Option A1: Buy kits!
Five Single ended 600w HPS kits for 830$, for an alleged 450,000 lumens
-150 lumens per watt
- 542 Lumens per $dollar$ spent is being added to my grow room..

I get 5 of these

5x $165 = $830

https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Hydroponic-Light-Cooled-Reflector/dp/B00P8P51ZQ/ref=sr_1_4?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1544894856&sr=1-4&keywords=de+hps+kit



Option A2: Put it together my self (better quality?)
Five bulbs, hoods, and ballasts for a total of $930 for an alleged 475,000 lumens
- Better bulbs, but no timers, or extra chain/rope etc.
-158 lumens per watt
- 511 lumens per $dollar$
spent being added to my grow room



5 x $56 Hoods = $280
https://www.amazon.com/Yescom-Refle...qid=1544897281&sr=1-16&keywords=600w+hps+hood

5 x Bulbs = 0



5 x $78 Ballast = $390


Option B1: Three single ended 1000w HPS kits!
Three 1000w single ended HPS kits for a total of 0
-140 lumens per watt
-737 lumens per $dollar$ being added to my grow room

I get three of these 0 1000w kits
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P8PIOIC/ref=twister_B01D31NIUG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Optoion B2: Put three 1000W HPS set ups together
Put together three hoods, get three ballasts, three bulbs for a total of $618
-Better bulb, no extra timers etc.
-145 lumens per watt, AND better spectrum (Due to Brand)
- 704 lumens per $dollar$ spent being added to my grow room

3 x $56 Hoods = $168


3x Bulbs = 0
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002JLE6HG/ref=twister_B010DGO6SC?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


3 x $90 Ballasts = $270

https://www.amazon.com/iPower-Digital-Dimmable-Electronic-Ballast/dp/B00BDGHH6K/ref=sr_1_4?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1544900725&sr=1-4&keywords=1000w+hps+ballast



:opps:
So the difference between premade kit set up cost would be
$260 more for 600w
and the difference between assembling together the hood, bulb, and ballast would be $312 more for 600w

So it seems like a no brainer just glancing at price tags.
But I understand that I am getting more lumens (and thus more PAR and light to my plants) to my plants with the 600w set up

I get 15,000 more lumens (7 percent more lumens) with a 600w pre build kit set up
I get 39,000 more lumens (9 percent more lumens) with a 600w costum set up

also I would be able to fine tune a little more by positioning lights differently, or only turning on a few


Thanks for following along!


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003U4Y0O...1&imprToken=tZ5H20LWTh.WmHFmur6vow&slotNum=10
https://www.amazon.com/iPower-GLBLS...rs-20&linkId=1c7c8850ea79a75059efb8ad173ac6fb
 
KarmaPharmer

KarmaPharmer

23
3
Woops, I changed my mind on the hoods, I found these which are able to be ducted, which changes things a bit... But unfortunately when I edit and add another link now it says I am spamming... so... maybe ill fix later.
The new hoods are actually 6 dollars cheaper..
It turned out that the difference in in start up dollar

~190 more lumens per start up dollar with 1000w kits
~ 198 more lumens per start up dollar with 1000w assembling parts my self.


Also a note to the mods: Please dont ban me for posting a lot of external links, I see why that could be an issue.

I am not here to spam, I can remove links and just keep the estimated dollar value info if that is more appropriate
 
Last edited:
KarmaPharmer

KarmaPharmer

23
3
Also I looked at DE HPS,

It looks like 3 1000w DE HPS would be about $393
https://www.htgsupply.com/products/digital-greenhouse-hhp-1000w-de-grow-light
at 155,000 lumens per watt which are actually supposed to be more located in the PAR range of light
thats
155 lumens per watt
394 lumens per start up dollar

That is significantly less lumens per dollar compared to any other set up

I dont have enough experience with DE HPS to know if this is really all that worth it,
please share some wisdom
 
Dbear180

Dbear180

1,297
263
I run 4 se 600s for my head stash in the basement in hydrofarm hammerhead hoods & used to run 24 gavita de 1000s at my old warehouse spot, both of them non vented hoods & sealed room. It's all in application/grow style & what you have to work with.

I think your over analyzing it & trying to save too many dollars with amazon shit. Buy high end equipment at a grow store (so you can return it if it does have a problem) & it will last you a long time. I still run my og phantom 600 ballasts from my second set up like 8 years ago. My first grow cheapo depot ballasts all took a shit within two years. You get what you pay for.

I'd stick with 600s you piece together yourself with advice from the grow store but that's just me & how I like to do things.
 
KarmaPharmer

KarmaPharmer

23
3
Thanks Dbear for the input,

yeah I figured I would need to shop around a bit more, and from the reviews on amazon I would be steering clear of them since some re-sellers seem to be shipping used bulbs. But that was just for price comparison... That was something else I wanted to get some info on was dependable brands.

As with any electronics I know there is a sweet spot in the price where it wont be junk but I'm not paying extra for a brand name or bullshit.

ushio bulbs, phantom ballasts, any others come to mind community?
 
KarmaPharmer

KarmaPharmer

23
3
So it looks like going with 600 watts is over $300 more expensive for this set up.

I get about 12 percent more lumens per watt with 600 hps.. meaning for every 13 cents I spend on electricity I am getting extra lumens, sort of a "virtual savings" here.

If my electricity is around 13 cents a kWh that means it will take over 4 years to recuperate the $300 in lumen output..

13c X 1.12 = 14.56 cents worth of lumens I get per 13 cents spent on power due to 600w light efficiency..
so 13c - 13.56c = 1.56 cents difference.

So I paid $300 more for 600w hps. How long will it take to have got my money back in this quasi savings.
$300/$0.0156 = 19,230
It will take 19,230 kilowatt hours to make up that $300. Since I am using these for flower at 12/12 that means
19,230hours /12 hours per day = 1602 days. That is over almost 4 and a half years!


If i am missing something than please someone let me know, but so far I dont see my self doing this in 5 years necessarily, so is there any reason to go with the more expensive 600w set up?
 
Dbear180

Dbear180

1,297
263
So it looks like going with 600 watts is over $300 more expensive for this set up.

I get about 12 percent more lumens per watt with 600 hps.. meaning for every 13 cents I spend on electricity I am getting extra lumens, sort of a "virtual savings" here.

If my electricity is around 13 cents a kWh that means it will take over 4 years to recuperate the $300 in lumen output..

13c X 1.12 = 14.56 cents worth of lumens I get per 13 cents spent on power due to 600w light efficiency..
so 13c - 13.56c = 1.56 cents difference.

So I paid $300 more for 600w hps. How long will it take to have got my money back in this quasi savings.
$300/$0.0156 = 19,230
It will take 19,230 kilowatt hours to make up that $300. Since I am using these for flower at 12/12 that means
19,230hours /12 hours per day = 1602 days. That is over almost 4 and a half years!


If i am missing something than please someone let me know, but so far I dont see my self doing this in 5 years necessarily, so is there any reason to go with the more expensive 600w set up?

Isnt your decimal in the wrong place? You said 1.56 cent dif first & then divided by .0156. I may be wrong I'm kinda stoned lol.

I dont think you have taken into account the heat efficiency of 600s & actual spread of 5 units instead of 3 either. I can put a 1000 in a 5x5 and cover good. I can put two 600s in a 4x8 & cover good. It's all in how you choose to grow with the space you have.

I grow trees. 1000s cant work with my style in my smaller setups because I run out of ceiling & start gettin crispy. 12 ft ceilings are a dif story, I ran a fucking jungle @ that spot.
 
Dbear180

Dbear180

1,297
263
Some science from the OG bible for you bruh.

20181216 210103
20181216 210154
 
KarmaPharmer

KarmaPharmer

23
3
I was dividing 300 dollars by 1.56 cents or 0.0156 dollars, all good man!

Hey I suppose I did not think about the overlap of lights.. that looks like it adds up.

I had read where people seem to think 1000w lights get better penetration, so that was a concern since I am medical and with the plant count limit I cant grow a sea, but I can grow a tree.

Good to hear your not having a problem there. Its only $300 more bucks for a good bit more flexibility, but also a good bit more wires and $300 isnt anything to sneez at in terms of my total budget for this room
 
Dbear180

Dbear180

1,297
263
Light controller is nice convenience & pretty cheap. Plug everything into one box wired into the wall @220 to drop the amps. Runs on one trigger timer to activate all your lights.

Gavita worked around this for big grows by creating the master controller. Activates your lamps via cat5 cable all linked in a series, just need power to the lamps. Not worth the extra dollars for small spots.
 
1diesel1

1diesel1

Staff
Supporter
11,116
438
Light controller is nice convenience & pretty cheap. Plug everything into one box wired into the wall @220 to drop the amps. Runs on one trigger timer to activate all your lights.

Gavita worked around this for big grows by creating the master controller. Activates your lamps via cat5 cable all linked in a series, just need power to the lamps. Not worth the extra dollars for small spots.
I love my master controller. It’s saved my ass many times.View attachment 41F323B4-444E-4823-9E20-3E64889DF99A.MOV
 
cemchris

cemchris

Supporter
3,346
263
600 def don't have the penetration of 1000's. So it's all going to come down to growing style, plant age, and plant count per room/light. Also factor in bulb cost. I usually end up paying more for 600 bulbs then 1'k. You can also get the best of both worlds and Just go digi 1'k and turn them down to 600's if you want. Heat is almost the same with 600 vs 1k's honestly. 600 def can yield tho. Don't get caught up in the lumens thing. If the choice is between the 2 and you can run 1k's no problem def get 1k's.

DE's are great as long as you have the height and a/c to back them. If you are limited on ceiling height or cooling I would stay away from DE's and run 315/630's if you want to stay on that end of the tech. Honestly for a limited space or If i had to buy all new equip from the start I would prob go 315's for all my rooms. They absolutely kill the veg dept and couple of my buddies slay with them on the flower side.
 
Jimster

Jimster

Supporter
2,770
263
I currently use 2000 watts total, with a vertical mount reflector. My ballasts are 35 year old magnetic behemoths and I use 3 bulbs. A Eye Blue Hortilux and a MS1000 MH during veg and the MS1000 MH + 1000 Watt HPS conversion bulb...which allows me to run both bulbs on proven technology, for flowering.
The vertical bulbs put out a lot of side lighting, which is great for my sealed room and also greatly increases the yield from extensive side growth(plus 6 ft vertical space). The 3 bulbs were about $250 total, the ballasts were 125 ea and the reflectors, white enamel, were $60 ea. The bulbs need replacing every few cycles, but everything else has paid for itself before Reagan was in office.
Technology has come a LONG way since I started, but I prefer the older stuff. LED is the way of the future...even I have to admit it, but it isn't quite there yet...although close. Friends have had trouble with some balasts being incompat with some brands of lights and multiple power settings screwing stuff up. Do your research but don't overthink it. Get some more basic and cheaper equip, get your process down pat, and modify it at your discretion as your experience return and grows.GOOD LUCK!
 
KarmaPharmer

KarmaPharmer

23
3
Hey thanks for the replies,

It looks like I have about 50-70 amps to play with, probably keeping it on the 50 amp side when I can.
I have a plant count limit of 72 (What up to my fellow MI farmers!) in about 100 sq. ft. of use able flower space, so I probably wont be growing TREES, but I do plan on going about a month, or possibly 9 weeks or so of veg, we will see how fast I fill out my space.

600 def don't have the penetration of 1000's. So it's all going to come down to growing style, plant age, and plant count per room/light. Also factor in bulb cost. I usually end up paying more for 600 bulbs then 1'k. You can also get the best of both worlds and Just go digi 1'k and turn them down to 600's if you want. Heat is almost the same with 600 vs 1k's honestly. 600 def can yield tho. Don't get caught up in the lumens thing. If the choice is between the 2 and you can run 1k's no problem def get 1k's.

DE's are great as long as you have the height and a/c to back them. If you are limited on ceiling height or cooling I would stay away from DE's and run 315/630's if you want to stay on that end of the tech. Honestly for a limited space or If i had to buy all new equip from the start I would prob go 315's for all my rooms. They absolutely kill the veg dept and couple of my buddies slay with them on the flower side.

Cool I appreciate the input.
This is pretty much what I was leaning towards doing after a lot of reading.

Looks like my flower room Ill be running two 1000w HPS
and then two 630 LEC

I think it will be interesting to see how the two lights compare.

Hey cemchris,
Why would you say go to 315 instead of 630 lamps? I think I saw someone else suggesting this, and I get you have more flexibility of lighting etc. but going back to the big question of this thread - does the efficiency of having multiple smaller lights justify the cost of buying balasts and shit for so many lights?

 
S

Simplicio

86
33
Hey everybody, hope your having a good day :smoking:


So I am moving back to indoors after a few years hiatus, before I was working with a long time indoor grower, now I am taking this on my self.
New place, new set up.
I have learned a lot about gardening lately and am definitely going to start a journal once things are really up and running. Super excited!!

anyways, onto my questions

Does the efficiency (and less worry about heating) of 600w HPS or 600w DE HPS justify starting costs of getting multiple hoods, ballasts, etc.

versus just getting the 1000w lights
(Miniquestion, how does everyone like DE HPS?)


So I plan on keeping this grow going for the next two years, possibly more.
As of right now I do plan on getting ducting and some fans so the heat from the bulbs is vented away and I can get the lights close to the canopy and keep the room temp controlled. Also this should help heat the rest of my house for winter, Ill vent outdoors come summer.


Set up: Say I am going to go by the "general rule" of 50watts/sq. ft. I am going to set up with 3000 watts - And let me say that yes watts and lumens are not ideal measurements for plant lighting, but they are useful in comparing here.

Option A1: Buy kits!
Five Single ended 600w HPS kits for 830$, for an alleged 450,000 lumens
-150 lumens per watt
- 542 Lumens per $dollar$ spent is being added to my grow room..

I get 5 of these

5x $165 = $830

https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Hydroponic-Light-Cooled-Reflector/dp/B00P8P51ZQ/ref=sr_1_4?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1544894856&sr=1-4&keywords=de+hps+kit



Option A2: Put it together my self (better quality?)
Five bulbs, hoods, and ballasts for a total of $930 for an alleged 475,000 lumens
- Better bulbs, but no timers, or extra chain/rope etc.
-158 lumens per watt
- 511 lumens per $dollar$
spent being added to my grow room



5 x $56 Hoods = $280


5 x $52 Bulbs = $260


5 x $78 Ballast = $390


Option B1: Three single ended 1000w HPS kits!
Three 1000w single ended HPS kits for a total of 0
-140 lumens per watt
-737 lumens per $dollar$ being added to my grow room

I get three of these 0 1000w kits
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P8PIOIC/ref=twister_B01D31NIUG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Optoion B2: Put three 1000W HPS set ups together
Put together three hoods, get three ballasts, three bulbs for a total of $618
-Better bulb, no extra timers etc.
-145 lumens per watt, AND better spectrum (Due to Brand)
- 704 lumens per $dollar$ spent being added to my grow room

3 x $56 Hoods = $168


3x Bulbs = 0
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002JLE6HG/ref=twister_B010DGO6SC?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


3 x $90 Ballasts = $270





:opps:
So the difference between premade kit set up cost would be
$260 more for 600w
and the difference between assembling together the hood, bulb, and ballast would be $312 more for 600w

So it seems like a no brainer just glancing at price tags.
But I understand that I am getting more lumens (and thus more PAR and light to my plants) to my plants with the 600w set up

I get 15,000 more lumens (7 percent more lumens) with a 600w pre build kit set up
I get 39,000 more lumens (9 percent more lumens) with a 600w costum set up

also I would be able to fine tune a little more by positioning lights differently, or only turning on a few


Thanks for following along!

I'd strongly recommend full spectrum LED lights instead (not blurple LEDs).
They have gotten very efficient over the past few years.
A lot of people use the Horticulture Lighting Group LEDs, such as
https://www.amazon.com/Horticulture...7&sr=1-3&keywords=horticulture+lighting+group

You'll save on electricity, and have fewer heat issues in the summer.
In the winter, a small space heater is enough to keep a tent warm.
I just got one of these:
https://thegreensunshineco.com/product/electric-sky-es300-grow-light/
https://www.amazon.com/iPower-Digit...=1544900725&sr=1-4&keywords=1000w+hps+ballast
https://www.amazon.com/Yescom-Refle...qid=1544897281&sr=1-16&keywords=600w+hps+hood
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003U4Y0O...1&imprToken=tZ5H20LWTh.WmHFmur6vow&slotNum=10
https://www.amazon.com/iPower-GLBLS...rs-20&linkId=1c7c8850ea79a75059efb8ad173ac6fb
https://www.amazon.com/iPower-Digit...=1544900725&sr=1-4&keywords=1000w+hps+ballast
 
S

Simplicio

86
33
Lumens are for humans and should not really be used to factor what lights to get. and heres why

https://fluence.science/science/par-ppf-ppfd-dli/

There is no doubt that what you say is correct.

But there is still a strong, albeit not exact, correlation between ppfd and lumens.
If the lumens of one light are higher than the lumens from a second light, then it's almost certain that the higher lumens light also has more ppfd than the other light.

Lumens are still a good method for comparing lights, but not the best.
The correlation between lumens and ppfd will be worse if the light in question puts out a non-bell curve of radiation.
 
Top Bottom