Eagle 20

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So before I begin this thread, I’m not looking for all the hippy opinions on eagle 20. Cannabis combustion naturally produces hydrogen cyanide at 3-5x the rate of tobacco cigarettes. So please spare me the lecture. I’ve tried every other option out there for PM and now I’m on to the heavy hitters.

My questions about eagle 20 are:

Does anyone have actual lab testing documents to show whether or not eagle 20 is gone after 30 days? Any other lab documents from other durations of application would be great too.

How fast after applying eagle 20 will PM disappear?
 
1diesel1

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No lecture from me just a life experience. Years ago I sprayed a mother plant stupidly. Cut clones finished flower trimmed took samples in for testing. BAAAAM FAILED. Good luck! There’s natural ways to rid pm such as baking soda.
 
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Northern

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No lecture from me just a life experience. Years ago I sprayed a mother plant stupidly. Cut clones finished flower trimmed took samples in for testing. BAAAAM FAILED. Good luck! There’s natural ways to rid pm such as baking soda.

I’ve tried all the safers products, neem oil, baking soda, potassium soda, peroxide, etc.

Do you have copy’s of these lab results? I’m really interested in actual lab sheets, because I’ve read everything from “no residuals after 30 days” to people like yourself saying years. I really want to personally review the lab data if anyone has some and can provide last application period for the test.
 
1diesel1

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I’ve tried all the safers products, neem oil, baking soda, potassium soda, peroxide, etc.

Do you have copy’s of these lab results? I’m really interested in actual lab sheets, because I’ve read everything from “no residuals after 30 days” to people like yourself saying years. I really want to personally review the lab data if anyone has some and can provide last application period for the test.
Was a long time ago, I’ll see if I can find it.
 
1diesel1

1diesel1

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I’ve tried all the safers products, neem oil, baking soda, potassium soda, peroxide, etc.

Do you have copy’s of these lab results? I’m really interested in actual lab sheets, because I’ve read everything from “no residuals after 30 days” to people like yourself saying years. I really want to personally review the lab data if anyone has some and can provide last application period for the test.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/posts/995023/
 
cemchris

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Desert Squirrel did a test on here years back. The problem is nowadays depending on the testing and what they are testing down to you can fail 6 months after you spray. Depends on if they are testing for a threshold or just if its present.

E20 works to kill PM just know it is a battle. The big problem is the spores get everywhere and i mean everywhere. The other problem is there is 2 diff strains (if not more) that are common and depending on which one(s) you have they fight can last a long time. One likes high humidity and one likes low.

So if you have this dream of being able to spray E20 a couple of times and it be gone forget that dream. From when I was battling it realistically it took 8 months to fully get rid of to where it wouldnt come back and I wouldnt have to spray for it anymore. This included about 10 full cleaning of my basement, ac units, lights ect the whole 9. I never had experience with PM growing up in Texas and when I got here it is a plague. Just know it sucks and all these other suggestions of baking soda ect will control it but it wont kill it. Now granted these can work if you keep it from coming back at all but if using those and it pops back up in full swing you just dosed your whole space with spores again which can last for years from what I'm told.

The other thing is E20 has been used for so many years by so many people the wrong way. What you are seeing is some for the group 3 fungicides (what E20 is in) don't work as good as they used to. You are supposed to rotate groups every 6 months or every 3 to 4 sprays to keep it from getting resistances. Just know if you plan on going with something else DO AT YOUR OWN RISK. Most of these havent been used on cannabis and some are some real nasty chemcials so do your research thoroughly. Luna from Bayer is the other one I've seen people use but have no clue about the chemicals in it. It is in the 7/9 group.

Fung Table
 
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cemchris

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BTW I didn't mention in the other reply this is multi rooms with PM coming up for 6 months back and forth. Knocking it down and it coming back so I prob had spores fucking everywhere.

Edit: Forgot to say I used Sulfur(microsulf) and Regalia on rotation to get rid of it.
 
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1diesel1

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Yeah I’ve read that one already. If you go through the posts he says he doesn’t have actual copies of the lab reports. Which is unfortunate.
Are you referencing me?
 
CaliRooted

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Really??? Procidic2 homie do your research clean your room, empty it wipe everything down with bleach. Sulfur burn after that get Procidic2 and start once in veg and afew times in flower and zero PM bet. Have you really done everything to stop it because I don't think you have. Just keeping it real and trying to help you out. Procidic2 is the first for Cannabis use label on the market out of Colorado treats Systemically and kills on contact. Dude I've even had good results with Regalia. Listen the key is preventing it in the first place so get your environment dialed in better if it's not. Procidic wont be just a 1 time thing and done just fyi. Happy Growing
 
1diesel1

1diesel1

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Really??? Procidic2 homie do your research clean your room, empty it wipe everything down with bleach. Sulfur burn after that get Procidic2 and start once in veg and afew times in flower and zero PM bet. Have you really done everything to stop it because I don't think you have. Just keeping it real and trying to help you out. Procidic2 is the first for Cannabis use label on the market out of Colorado treats Systemically and kills on contact. Dude I've even had good results with Regalia. Listen the key is preventing it in the first place so get your environment dialed in better if it's not. Procidic wont be just a 1 time thing and done just fyi. Happy Growing
 
jumpincactus

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Eagle 20 and Myclobutanil in the Context of Cannabis Cultivation and Consumption
5/14/2015

14 Comments


Overview
On March 23rd, several Denver-based marijuana grow operations were ordered to quarantine plants after it was determined they were treated with Eagle 20, a fungicidal pesticide (1). Myclobutanil-based fungicides, including Eagle 20, are applied to a wide range of edible agricultural products (grapes, apples, spinach, etc). When applied correctly, myclobutanil is known to have low toxicity to humans. Myclobutanil-based fungicides, including Eagle 20EW, are not currently approved for use in the United States on tobacco, the only (other than marijuana) smokable agricultural commodity. The toxicity and health effects of myclobutanil in the context of combustion/inhalation (versus ingestion) have not been assessed.

The following analysis summarizes some of the known chemical and physical properties of myclobutanil, and highlights the potential health implications of using this chemical on marijuana.

Mode of Action
Myclobutanil is the active ingredient in several brands of pesticides, including Eagle 20EW. Myclobutanil works by blocking a key enzyme involved in fungal cell membrane synthesis, leading to abnormal cell growth and eventual death of the fungal pathogen (2) Myclobutanil is a systemic fungicide, meaning it is absorbed at the site of application (ex. leaf) and distributed throughout the rest of the plant, thereby providing more comprehensive protection from fungal infection (2). As a systemic chemical, myclobutanil cannot be removed by washing treated crops, although residue will decrease in plant tissues over time. The final remaining residue levels vary considerably and are highly dependent on the rate of application, the time of last application before harvest, and how well the specific plant clears the chemical from its system.

Myclobutanil Tolerance Levels
The Environmental Protection Agency is responsible for regulating the pesticides used by growers to protect crops and for setting limits on the amount of pesticides that may remain in or on foods marketed in the USA. These limits on pesticides left on foods are called "tolerances" in the U.S (3).

The EPA establishes tolerances or each pesticide based on the potential risks to human health posed by that pesticide, using actual or estimated residue data, as well non-human toxicity studies, to reflect real-world exposure as closely as possible (3).

Tolerance levels for myclobutanil were established for exposure via inhalation, absorption through the skin during pesticide application to crops, and ingestion of agricultural commodities treated with myclobutanil. Myclobutanil absorbed by the most common route, dietary exposure, is metabolized by gut enzymes and the liver prior to entering the bloodstream (4,5). Myclobutanil absorbed via inhalation enters the bloodstream directly via the lungs.

I. The human health effects from the combustion and inhalation of myclobutanil have not been evaluated

Tolerance levels and toxicity studies for myclobutanil on edible products should not be used for evaluating the safety of myclobutanil on marijuana. Passage of pesticides into the bloodstream varies considerably between inhalation and ingestion routes of exposure, and the application of high temperature is known to alter the chemical composition of myclobutanil. Unfortunately, very little information is available to evaluate myclobutanil in the context of tobacco use, as Eagle 20 and myclobutanil-based fungicides are not approved for use on tobacco plants in the United States (6,7). Myclobutanil is approved for use on tobacco cultivated in China, however, and a 2012 study has demonstrated that 10% or more of the active pesticide remains on tobacco leaves up to 21 days after treatment, with residue present from 0.85 parts per million (ppm) up to 3.27 ppm (8). Using tobacco as a model for pesticide retention, it is probable a considerable amount of myclobutanil may remain present in cannabis weeks after fungicide application.

II. Inhalation of pyrolized myclobutanil residue could expose cannabis users to hydrogen cyanide
As noted on the Eagle 20 material safety data sheet(3), myclobutanil is stable at room temperature, but releases highly toxic gas if heated past its boiling point of 205°C (401°F) (3, 9). Disposable butane lighters, commonly used to ignite marijuana during consumption, produce temperatures in excess of 450°C.

Figure 1. Chemical structure of myclobutanil and decomposition products. Cyanide moiety indicated in red, chlorine indicated in green, and triazole moiety indicated in blue.


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As shown in Figure 1 above, myclobutanil decomposes, its triazole (Figure 1, blue), cyanide (Figure 1, red) and chlorine (Figure 1, green) moieties are released and form toxic gases, including hydrogen cyanide (HCN) and hydrochloric gas (HCl). Of the three primary decomposition products formed, HCN holds the greatest concern. Chronic exposure to dilute hydrogen cyanide (ex. 0.008 parts per million) is not immediately deadly (10), but is known to cause serious neurological, respiratory, cardiovascular, and thyroid problems (11, 12, 13). Cannabis retaining even marginal amounts of myclobutanil (ex. 0.03 ppm) could potentially expose consumers to non-lethal, but clinically relevant levels of HCN.

III. Myclobutanil is co-extracted with cannabinoids during concentrate production
Studies of two other conazole fungicides, tebuconazole and propiconazole, have demonstrated that these chemicals are co-extracted during production of essential oils (14). Moreover, the process of extraction, treatment, and concentration can cause tebuconazole and propiconazole pesticide residue to accumulate at levels 250 times higher than the starting material (14). Myclobutanil is highly soluble in many of the solvents used in cannabinoid extraction (ex. ethanol, butane, and carbon dioxide)(15,16), and unquestionably co-extracts with cannabinoids during concentrate production. The process of removing residual solvent and increasing cannabinoid concentration very likely increases levels of myclobutanil, and other chemically-similar pesticides.

Conclusion
The Colorado Department of Agriculture has identified and published a list of "minimum risk pesticides" that pose little or no risk to human health (18) and are allowable for use on marijuana during cultivation. Eagle 20 (myclobutanil) is not on this list, but the absence of regulatory oversight has contributed to its widespread use in marijuana cultivation in Colorado.

Federal guidance is unlikely, given the legal status of marijuana. It falls on Colorado to build on the guidelines issued by the CDA to implement more stringent regulation, including pesticide residue testing, to prevent tainted product from reaching the open marketplace and consumers.

References

1. Cotton, Anthony. "Pesticide Misuse Puts Pot Plants at Six Denver Grow Facilities on Hold." Denver Post, 24 Mar. 2015. Web. 5 May 2015.

2. "Specimen Label: Eagle 20EW - Specialty Fungicide." Crop Data Management Systems. Crop Data Management Systems, Inc, 21 Sept. 2011. Web. 5 May 2015. <http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld6DG004.pdf>.

3. "Material Safety Data Sheet: Eagle 20EW - Specialty Fungicide." Crop Data Management Systems. Crop Data Management Systems, Inc, 25 May 2012. Web. 5 May 2015. <http://www.cdms.net>.

4. "Pesticide Tolerances." Pesticides: Regulating Pesticides. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, 4 Feb. 2014. Web. 5 May 2015. <>.

5. "Myclobutanil." ToxNet: Toxicology Data Network. U.S. National Library Of Medicine, 2 June 2008. Web. 5 May 2015. <>.

6. "Myclobutanil; Pesticide Tolerance. a Rule by the Environmental Protection Agency on 03/26/2008." Federal Register. National Archives And Records Administration, 3 Mar. 2008. Web. 5 May 2015. <https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2008/03/26/E8-6205/myclobutanil-pesticide-tolerance>.

7. Daley, Paul, David Lampach, Savino Sguerra, and BOTEC Analysis Corporation. "Testing Cannabis for Contaminants." Washington State Liquor Control Board. Washington State, 12 Sept. 2013. Web. 5 May 2015. <http://liq.wa.gov/publications/Marijuana/BOTEC reports/1a-Testing-for-Contaminants-Final-Revised.pdf>.

8. Pfeufer, Emily, and Bob Pearce. "2015 Fungicide Guide for Burley and Dark Tobacco." College Of Agriculture, Food And Environment. University Of Kentucky, Jan. 2015. Web. 5 May 2015. <>.

9. Wang, X, Y Li, G Xu, H Sun, J Xu, X Zheng, and F Wang. "Dissipation and Residues of Myclobutanil in Tobacco and Soil Under Field Conditions." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology 88.5 (2012): 759-763. Web. 5 May 2015.

10. Sun, Xiao-Hong, Yuan-Fa Liu, Zhi-Cheng Tan, Ying-Qi Jia, Mei-Han Wang, and You-Ying Di. "Heat Capacity and Thermodynamic Properties of Myclobutanil." Chinese Journal of Chemistry 23.1 (2005): 23-27. Web. 5 May 2015.

11. "Cyanide Compounds." Air Toxics. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Jan. 2000. Web. 5 May 2015. <>.

12. El Ghawabi, SH, MA Gaafar, AA El-Saharti, SH Ahmed, KK Malash, and R Fares. "Chronic Cyanide Exposure: a Clinical, Radioisotope, and Laboratory Study." British Journal of Industrial Medicine 32(1975): 215-219. Web. 5 May 2015.

13. "Toxicological Profile for Cyanide." Agency For Toxic Substances & Disease Registry. U.S. Department Of Health And Human Services, July 2006. Web. 5 May 2015. <http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp8.pdf>.

14. Blanc, P, M Hogan, K Mallin, D Hryhorczuk, S Hessl, and B Bernard. "Cyanide Intoxication Among Silver-reclaiming Workers." The Journal of the American Medical Association 253(1985): 367-371. Web. 5 May 2015.

15. Tascone, O, C Roy, JJ Filippi, and UJ Meierhenrich. "Use, Analysis, and Regulation of Pesticides in Natural Extracts, Essential Oils, Concretes, and Absolutes." Analytical and Bioanalytical Chemistry 406(2014): 971-980. Web. 5 May 2015.

16. Tomlin, C.D.S. (ed.). The Pesticide Manual - World Compendium, 11 th ed., British Crop Protection Council, Surrey, England 1997, p. 854

17. Ackerman P et al; Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry. 7th ed. (2005). NY, NY: John Wiley & Sons; Fungicides, Agricultural. Online Posting Date: June 15, 2000.

18. "Pesticide-use-marijuana-production" Colorado Department of Agriculture. 30 April 2015. Web. 5 May 2015. <https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/agplants/pesticide-use-marijuana-production>.
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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To be clear, it is hard to find concrete proof with peer reviewed studies on the effects of eagle 20 because to date there hasn't been enough studies done to see the results. But in lacking citable studies does that allow you the user of this garbage to sleep better at night?, knowing it could poisoning or compromising others health just because we cant prove it beyond a reasonable doubt?

There is still much to learn about cannabis and pesticides. So in my garden it is an effective IPM and prevention that allows me to not have to take chances with my health and the health of all my family and friends. Have not had to use any systemics in my garden in years.

Burning pesticides

The toxicity of myclobutanil highlights the importance of considering how a cannabis product is consumed. When heated myclobutanil decomposes into hydrogen cyanide, a toxic compound that causes neurological, respiratory, cardiovascular, and thyroid problems at concentrations of 0.008 ppm [MSDS]. Smoking or vaping cannabis tainted with myclobutanil residue is a bad idea. This pesticide is now banned for use on cannabis in Oregon [Farrer p11]. However, in Nevada up to 9 ppm of myclobutanil is allowed on cannabis as of January 2017 [DPBH].

Since smoking is still the most preferred method of consuming cannabis, it is essential to know the safety of pesticides when heated. Vaporization leads to temperatures around 200˚C, while burning causes temperatures above 400˚C. Unlike myclobutanil, pyrethrins likely break down into two safer chemicals when heated without burning: chrysanthemic acid and a rethrolone. This breakdown may be reduced in the oily solution of a concentrate. When smoked it is not clear how pyrethrins will decompose and how dangerous these chemicals will be.

There’s ample reason for state officials to be cautious and to err on the side of safety with respect to pesticide regulations. But being stringent without a basis in science may have the unintended effect of pushing cannabis cultivators to use harder-to-detect pesticides that are more toxic.

It is paramount to study the effects of heating pesticides. Lacking pertinent data, regulations should at least be geared toward reducing the use of pesticides that we know burn to highly toxic compounds, and regulations should give some leeway to pesticides and growing practices that are safer. Moreover, regulations need to be malleable, so that as research provides us with a better understanding of pesticide toxicity, regulations follow suit.

Adrian Devitt-Lee is a Project CBD research associate and contributing writer. Research for this article was supported by CannaCraft, a California-based medical marijuana company.

Copyright, Project CBD. May not be reprinted without permission.

Footnotes:

1 Pyrethroids account for 30 percent of global pesticide use, according to Chinese researchers at Zhejiang University in Hangzhou. Known as endocrine-disrupting chemicals, pyrethroids have been linked to early puberty in boys, which can stunt growth and cause behavioral problems. Exposure to pyrethroids also increases the risk of testicular cancer in men and breast cancer in women.

2 California’s proposed regulations do account for some differences between ingesting and vaporizing pesticides. However, this is because compounds enter the bloodstream through the lungs much more easily than they pass through the digestive tract. They do not consider the effect of heating solvents or pesticides. Moreover, in their reference to exposure limits for solvents regulators confuse two different units. The short-term exposure limit (STEL), applicable to acute inhalation, can be measured in ppmv or mg/m3. Ppmv stands for parts per million by volume, which is sometimes written “ppm”. Limits on cannabis are given in ppm by weight, which is measured as the grams of adulterant per million grams of cannabis product, or µg (microgram) of adulterant per gram product. The relevant ppmv in the lungs is not simply the ppm contamination on cannabis. The relationship between ppmv and ppm depends on the volume of the lungs and the amount of cannabis product inhaled. The concentration (in mg/m3) of adulterant inhaled is approximately L*c/V, where L is the limit in ppm, c is the amount of cannabis used in grams, and V is the volume of the lungs in liters.

3 The relationship is as follows: Let b be the individual’s body weight in kg, L the regulatory limit in ppm, A the acceptable daily intake in mg pyrethrins/kg bodyweight, and C the maximum amount of cannabis consumed by any individual per day in grams. 1 kilogram is equal to 2.2 lbs. Safety would mean that these variables satisfy:

A * b ≥ 10-3 * L * C

Substituting b = 62 [kg], L = 1 [ppm], and A = 0.4 [mg/kg], we see that C ≤ 24,800 [g] or C ≤ 54.7 lbs.

On the other hand, if we suppose that b ≥ 0.1 C (that the individual consumes less than 1% of their bodyweight in cannabis each day), the limit must satisfy L ≤ 40 [ppm].

Sources:

 
DetGrnThumb

DetGrnThumb

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So before I begin this thread, I’m not looking for all the hippy opinions on eagle 20. Cannabis combustion naturally produces hydrogen cyanide at 3-5x the rate of tobacco cigarettes. So please spare me the lecture. I’ve tried every other option out there for PM and now I’m on to the heavy hitters.

My questions about eagle 20 are:

Does anyone have actual lab testing documents to show whether or not eagle 20 is gone after 30 days? Any other lab documents from other durations of application would be great too.

How fast after applying eagle 20 will PM disappear?
Myclobutanil can stay in a plant for well over 180 days. DO NOT USE THIS TRASH!!!! We have over a million sq ft of fully licensed flowering canopy space in Santa Barbara alone. They will pull all your shit that tests dirty and destroy that trash
 
DetGrnThumb

DetGrnThumb

290
93
So before I begin this thread, I’m not looking for all the hippy opinions on eagle 20. Cannabis combustion naturally produces hydrogen cyanide at 3-5x the rate of tobacco cigarettes. So please spare me the lecture. I’ve tried every other option out there for PM and now I’m on to the heavy hitters.

My questions about eagle 20 are:

Does anyone have actual lab testing documents to show whether or not eagle 20 is gone after 30 days? Any other lab documents from other durations of application would be great too.

How fast after applying eagle 20 will PM disappear?
And yes I have mountains of data, both in our records and filed with the state. If you use Eagle 20 on your plants you are a trash grower and should quit before you fuck more peoples lives up.
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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Actually, there are some sources that claim even the dirty cannabis is somehow making itself into the retail markets and or the black markets in spite of it testing dirty...…… Sad and apparently true.

Is there a chain of custody documenting dirty erb and what happens to it after it is deemed unsafe? Is it really destroyed or is it diverted back into the retail stream. These are questions we should all be asking. Dispos here in AZ aren't even regulated to where lab testing is required and or enforced. With the legalization movement moving full steam ahead there is much work to do in the research and science areas of what is and isn't safe and acceptable and proving whats safe and what isn't. There is indeed a long road ahead.

https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/leafly-investigation-california-dirty-cannabis-problem

https://www.forbes.com/sites/debrab...e-industrys-dirty-little-secret/#741afa641220

https://www.wired.com/story/california-cannabis/

https://hightimes.com/grow/tainted-the-problem-with-pot-and-pesticides/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...-medical-marijuana-destroyed/article34026223/
 
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