Economic Analysis Of Greenhouse Lighting: Led Vs. Hid Fixtures

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Homesteader

Homesteader

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i think the problem with using LED for greenhouse would be the weak par at such a height .
lets be realistic here having them lights 5 feet away from plants what are they really putting out .
Pretty much the same as a flashlight
i remember we used long time ago just plain 100 watt light bulbs hanging down near the plants
Uh no
If you read the link pg 17


Cree Reference design is 4.9 feet
Gavita height is 3.2 feet

Little more than a flashlight.
I agree bang for the buck a chinese lamp may be best bet for 3 hours a day but this thread kinda turned to the cree design
 
Homesteader

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Back to the original thread though I would think using the hortilux powerveg t5's would be great as supplemental and give you some of the heat like @nightwatch without dropping a ton of money up front.
 
NightsWatch

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Uh no
If you read the link pg 17


Cree Reference design is 4.9 feet
Gavita height is 3.2 feet

Little more than a flashlight.
I agree bang for the buck a chinese lamp may be best bet for 3 hours a day but this thread kinda turned to the cree design

I have to say that a dE unit will out perform par ratings @ 5 feet away from plat tops then what cree is capable of in a heart beat

Here just found this vid 1200 watt Cree cob unit @ 22 inches away what do you think par rating would be @ 22" away from a Gavita :) i wold be safe to say that the cree unit@ 44" away would be in the 400's and even less

5 feet away 300's

 
Homesteader

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PAR approved 1024x778



https://fluence.science/science/par-ppf-ppfd-dli/
 
NightsWatch

NightsWatch

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lol ok i know we here it all the time Cob kicks HPS ass yet i never seen one yet have you ?? here a nice cob grow :) just saying

Only selling feature with cobs is there more efficient. does not mean there better penetration
TBH that is cobs weakness is there penetration

This is why we see more n more Cob Sog grows then one plant vs one plant and for good reason ,
But anyways i am not here to argue
find an do what ever is in your budget for  green house lighting epaps Gavita nanolux CMH and even plasma are the leading choices by most agricultural green house farms
With solar power where efficiency means nothing because its free power
here a nice single cob grow not much really to scream about right
and hps grow both one plant grows
look at the bud growth on lower end of the plants

There all light at the end of the day.. if cobs out performed DE's there would never be a debate but guess what the debate remains strong as ever
And with lighting advancing so fast who knows what next year brings
I see a difference do you ??
User152169 pic1284803 1405154203
Bambam
 
Homesteader

Homesteader

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I don't think COBs are ideal for Horticulture either. They are better spotlights in museums imo. I'm going to build out this cree model this winter because I believe the 5 w and 3w are the way to go for cannabis and penetration
 
NightsWatch

NightsWatch

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I don't think COBs are ideal for Horticulture either. They are better spotlights in museums imo. I'm going to build out this cree model this winter because I believe the 5 w and 3w are the way to go for cannabis and penetration
Fuck yea that is what its all about trial and error no matter what i am very impressed with cobs but there just not there yet to force me to throw away De units but i am sure there will be a time when de units will be a museum piece :)
were advancing faster them ever in the lighting industry but it all comes down to cost reliability resources i mean its not hard to litterally walk down to a store and buy a DE unit where as if something failed with obs your waiting a week for UPS to show up

but both have there unique benifits right
 
Horto

Horto

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I believe they have two configurations. One in series unless I am reading that wrong.

http://www.sinkpad.com/inner-product.php?id=46
PCB has two on-board configuration 1x12s or 2pX6s.
This is all I could find which could mean 12 in series.
Or 2 lots of 6 serial connected LED's connected in parallel.
I have no idea, but it does not seem clear from this.
Edit (pX6) parallel x 6, so this gives the board options.

So, are all LED's in series for this Cree design

I have been using a proxy, and only noticed the problem afterwards.

Still looking through the thread and links, copy them for reference.

Thank you for the help.
 
Horto

Horto

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Fuck yea that is what its all about trial and error no matter what i am very impressed with cobs but there just not there yet to force me to throw away De units but i am sure there will be a time when de units will be a museum piece :)
were advancing faster them ever in the lighting industry but it all comes down to cost reliability resources i mean its not hard to litterally walk down to a store and buy a DE unit where as if something failed with obs your waiting a week for UPS to show up

but both have there unique benifits right

In the Comparison between Cree Reference Design and HPS, it would seem the HPS is singular without walls.
I use a 400w with parabola in a 1.2 Mtr square area with Mylar coated Walls, without which it would be useless.

I think the normal practice for most would be to have reflective walls or multiple lights.
With lights in a grid pattern the intensity between would likely exceed that at the wall.

My point is the Comparison is using a LED with angled Lens compared with HPS at some height without walls.
Just the same, the technology is getting better.
I intend to build 2 engines for 260 watt system and consider using CXB3590 or Citizen CLU058-1825 with them.
It will come down to the combined wattage and heat, which I am still considering.

I am of similar mind that LED is a long way from HPS in penetration, you can understand why LED companies want to show favorable comparison with HPS, for market share.
You need different Growing methods to match HPS, then there is fruit size and depth.

That said, I am building half the Cree Reference because it might come close to 400 watt HPS with some foliage training.

Personally, I would not choose LED's for Outdoor supplementary light.
Might be wrong?
 
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Horto

Horto

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Cree shows how to build a 553w LED module that performs at par with Gavita Pro with Phillips bulbs drawing 1064 watts.
Cree Horticulture Reference Design


I have decided to change the design for my 2 Rows of plants (900 x 900 Grow area)

9 PCB version with 96 LED's @ aprox 292.5W
9 PCB (173 x 147mm).


63.5mm >-------------------< 127mm >-------------------< 127mm >-------------------< 63.5
^
Row Spacing = 300mm.
v
63.5mm >-------------------< 127mm >-------------------< 127mm >-------------------< 63.5
^
Row Spacing = 300mm.
v
63.5mm >-------------------< 127mm >-------------------< 127mm >-------------------< 63.5


3x “3 PCB Modules”. (Each Module would consist of 3x 12 LED PCB connected long wise into strips).

I would like to choose a driver that provides the power to LED's efficiently as with the original design, if you have suggestion?

This change from the original design will also need a solution for suitable heat sinks?

---------------



Made this Email Inquiry with Cree:

Could you please supply the wiring arrangement for the Cree LED's on each SinkPad Aluminum PCB – 1950.
Also the arrangement of 8 PCB (Series or parallel) connections to HLG-320H-C1050B Driver?

I need this information to calculate requirements for:
9 PCB version with 96 LED's.
3x “3 PCB Modules”.
Each Module would consist of 3x 12 LED PCB connected long wise into strips.

I would like to choose a driver that provides the power to LED's efficiently as with the original design, if you have suggestion.

This change from the original design will also need a solution for suitable heat sinks.

Any updates on design, LED’s or components is welcomed.
 
J

Jasha

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I've built one of the light engines for the Hort design from Cree. Those mcpcbs are available from sinkpad, but requesting a sample is not as easy as it should be. Minimum order from them is about 25 units I believe at 6$ a piece. You can wire the mcpcb in series or in parallel. I made a single 12 led engine with a A011 flex block driver, ledil optics, and graftech TIM. Soldering the mcpcb was... Interesting.
 
J

Jasha

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I actually used a cheap electric skillet for the soldering with some lead free kester solder paste. The board itself has a tendency to bow when it heats up, so be careful with your change in temperature. Some of the Xlamp G2 diodes are difficult to determine the cathode and anode outside of the packaging, so be sure to take note of their orientation prior to soldering if you are using those red G2s. Anyone interested in purchasing the mcpcbs from me at cost plus shipping if I purchase the minimum amount from sinkpad?
 
Homesteader

Homesteader

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@Jasha How is the light? Are you happy with it? How was it at lower canopy height? 5 feet like the model seems hard to maintain in my case.

Did you see the new HE version?
 
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J

Jasha

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@Jasha How is the light? Are you happy with it? How was it at lower canopy height? 5 feet like the model seems hard to maintain in my case.

Did you see the new HE version?

http://www.cree.com/led-components-and-modules/products/xlamp/discrete-nondirectional/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/XLampXPEHEW.pdf[

I have seen them! I'm using the same LEDs as the reference design, with the addition of some G2 blue. I have two small engines, each mounted with one mcpcb wired in series. I haven't had the chance to grow anything with the engines yet, I just finished it yesterday. Growing results to follow. But two should be ideal for 1-3 plants, as allowed by prop 64 in Ca now.
 
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Crysmatic

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I was doing some estimating just this morning. Many parts are super expensive to build a single 520W light. You have to get into the hundreds before it comes down on par with commercial units (and that's if you diy). fwiw, a single 4 foot length of heatsink is cheaper than four 12" lengths, or two 24" lengths...and 24" is cheaper than 23". there are much cheaper alternatives for prototyping eg. heatsink usa.

The discrete LED distribute heat much more evenly than COB. They're already 10% brighter than COB and you can drive them harder which makes them even more efficient than COB. The downside is soldering 192 LED (which is the main reason COB make good diy). 520W @ 1050 mA matches the gavita pro 1000 but underutilizes the heatsink's capability. the aavid heatsink can comfortably handle 100W of dissipated heat per foot. go for 693W @ 1400 mA (737W total draw). ~25% better yields trumps marginally higher electric bill.

CREE uses the 4000K bin70 LED. I built a COB fixture with the preferred 3500K. the 4000K are in stock at mouser, while the 3500K are 9 week lead time. Looking at Greengene's gorilla glue grow, I can't see any difference between 4000K and 3500K. No need for far red LED...they just kill PPFD.
 
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