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Experience w/ Canna Coco nutrients?

Discussion in 'Nutrients and Fertilizers' started by MtGrownCanna, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. So....this is my first attempt at "hydro"....I've been strictly organic the last 22 years. My plants are entering the second phase of veg, around day 17. Up until about week 2, the plants got dosed three times daily w/ 280ppms total, of Canna Coco and Calmg, drain to waste in a 60/40 mix of Canna coco coir and perlite. The mix per Gal. was 1.5ml A, 1.5ml B, and 1ml Calmg. Starting week 2 the mix is 2mls A, 2mls B, and 2mls Calmg, at 340ppms. Week three, I plan on using 3ml A, 3ml B, and 2ml Calmg. PH is steady at 6.0. My overall plan at this point is to increase Coco A & B keeping the Calmg steady at 2mls from here, until I reach 800ppms.

    How many mls of Calmg does a plant generally need during veg?

    How many total ppms generally work the best for max growth in veg?

    How much is too much Calmg?

    At what week is it best to do the first flush, and how many flushes are necessary for a full 5 month grow cycle?

    A few people have told me if I use Canna nut's and coir, I won't need to add Calmg. Others tell me add Calmg no matter what coir is used. Everyone says flushing is important. Problem is, I never here anyone talk about specific numbers. So if you've run Canna with good or bad results, I would love to hear about it. Thanks for the useful tips....I am grateful and will now get baked! :)
    HelixFertili and RoneGrown like this.
  2. Running Canna coco now for the first time...
    Pre-charge needs heavy Cal/Mag, problem is I have noticed no Cal/Mags are equal, I use Grow More's Cal Mag supplement. My pre-charge was 400ppm base nutes and 200ppm Cal/mag and I foliared Cal/mag.

    I run Jack's salts, not canna nutes and I fumbled a bit in the beginning so if you're worried at all just run with the canna line, or H&G's coco line, heard its the shit.

    Not sure where you read about flushing but YOU DO NOT WANT TO FLUSH COCO...

    If you have salt build up youre suppose to 'flush' with low ppm water, never water only.

    Aim for 20% run off and make sure you are reading ph and ppm in and out.

    Don't let it dry out completely...
    MtGrownCanna likes this.
  3. Hard questions because of the variables in plant up-take of nutrients. Some plants are N hogs and some are not. Go join the Canna club, Canna knows their shit better than most and they know what were growing. They have some great video's, and lots of reading. They are happy to answer your question. That's where I would take my lead from and combine this site and Canna for all you research.

    I did not see what type of water you are using? tap, well, city, RO?
    Pimples and MtGrownCanna like this.
  4. R/O water, Woods. Thanks for the guidance. I'll check it out later.

  5. How to buffer reverse osmosis water

    Here is a great tip for those who use reverse osmosis water to buffer your water and help stabilize pH. There are two ways, both efficient.

    - For those who prefer simplicity, all you have to do is add 20% tap water to your reverse osmosis water.

    - For the purists who do not want to use tap water, or whose water is particularly bad, here are two easy steps:

    1 – First increase your pH up to 10.0 with pH Up or potassium carbonate
    2 – Then bring it down to 6.0 with pH Down

    In both cases you’ll obtain water well adapted to hydroponic nutritive solutions, while avoiding untimely pH fluctuations.

    You need to raise pH first because the “buffer” elements have a very high pH or very low pH. You can start by adding acid, but then you will need pH up to raise your pH.
    You need to buffer R.O. water simply because pure water has no buffering capacity. It is subject to big swings in pH every time you add something to the solution, making it unsuited for cultivation. Using pure R.O. is a classic source of failure.

    If you’re using reverse osmosis water, add 50-100 ppm of Cal/Mg; this helps to buffer your water so nutrients absorb better.

    What happens is that the basic/alkaline components (mainly calcium) that are responsible for the high PH (as in 7.3 or 7.6) also buffer it together with the more neutral components. As soon as you add SOME acid, the basic elements neutralize it in 24 hours, but loose some potency, respectively get eliminated partially within the "reaction". If you repeat that process, the alkaline components- and their buffer capacity get lower and lower until the alkaline buffer is "gone". The "last" time you add ph-down/acid to your water, it will drop drastically to perhaps under 5. This mostly happens when a week PH down is used repeatedly. With Nitric acid at 75 or 95 %, this will not happen; it will get the alkaline elements down in one shot. But that is the stuff that burns through concrete floors like alien blood and it's truly not everyone's cup of tea.

    PH of boiled water of 8.4 after 13 hours of boiling is "normal" because you evaporate lots of water, while calcium and other alkaline elements (already responsible for the high pH) remain in the water and hence will be present in higher concentration and push up the pH. There may also be some chemical reaction and transformation within these 13 hours of boiling, I don't know of.

    Nutrients generally lower and buffer a certain pH, that's what any mineral composition with an acidic sum, added and dissolved in water does anyway. NUTRIENTS are actually made to lower the PH, as the usual 7+ is not suited. The only difference is that some manufacturers point this out explicitly while others don't. Some manufacturers may indeed add some more of specific components like mono potassium phosphate that helps lowering and buffering such Ph, but that's pretty much it. As a side effect (when running higher EC) you may have excessive Phosphorus that will result in Ca deficiency.

    But in this context it is im:ortant to know that a higher nutrient concentration will lower the pH more than a weaker ratio. Hence in some cases it's not a bad idea to simply (slightly) increase the nutrient concentration by a click or two. It's also a reason why some manufacturers recommend higher concentrations as needed, and some commercial growers push the nutrient concentration higher.

    If the PH of the base water is too high, most nutrients can't bring it down to around 6 and that's (only) where pH down- as in acids or other components are required. In ANY case it is always best to have, use or get water that is around and not (much) over 7.

    RO water is fine, but take care what nutrients you use, as with some extra acidic nutrients (many are developed with areas in mind that have an excessive amount of calcium carbonate in the (well water) you may end up with an unwanted but extraordinary low PH as well.

    Attention; Ph and EC are interconnected; EC reading of a nutrient solution will not be the same at PH 5.0 as it is at 7.0!
  6. Is that necessary to buffer when doing drain to waste? I it better to raise the PH of the water first , before adding nut's? I usually add the nut's , then PH adjust a few hours later. I also check PH and ppms before and after every feeding....everything is as it should be.....I think. PH is sitting right around 6, ppm's for week three veg around 350. I just picked up Boost and PK 13/14....gonna start budding these testers asa I take cuts.
  7. turbo14


    Canna Coco rages. I run my 2o light room in 5 gallon hard pots fed Canna A + B

    Early Veg 5 ML per gallon
    Late Veg into flower 10 ML per gallon.
    Cal Mag 5ML per gallon for first 4 weeks, then dropped to 2.5 ML per gallon. PK 13/14 on Week 5. Overdrive on weeks 6-7.

    Merks it'

    RoneGrown and pussOGbrah like this.
  8. Thanks Turbo. Looks like I wasn't adding enough Calmag. Started seeing signs of a deficiency yesterday morning but hooked them up last night and they're better already. So this is why hydro is so expensive!! It's like steroids for our plants.... ;)
  9. i run it at 10-12 ml of each in veg. maybe add 1-2ml gh calimag every couple feeds..

    run this until day 1o flower then drop a+b down to ~4-5mls. calimag at 1.0-1.5 mls. Then once flowering kicks in around day 30 start creeping up your base to ~6-7mls. You could use a pk boost around day 35-40, but i would do one or two rounds without it first.

    >>>Dont be scared to run higher nute levels off the bat if your running clones..they can take it. And if they get really dark green and you see any burn just cut base nutes in half for a couple days/feedings and they will not miss a step.

    You run into more problems undernuting than over nuting imo..remember coco has zero nutes except a bit of K and will suck up cal and mg the first few feedings making these less available to the plant..

    >>>Think of coco like a magnet that is easily flushed..The coco has a negative charge, so it binds with nutrients with a positive charge (calcium, magnesium, potassium, iron, amoniacal nitrogen) Negatively charged nutes like phosphorus and nitrogen will be instant available to plant in coco.

    Calcium (ca+2) and magnesium (mg+2) have a stronger positive charge than potassium (K+), so if you water with only calmag you will displace the K+ making it easily available to the plant risking overdose or lockout. Thats why its best to stick with the canna A+B and avoid using too much calmg.

    your gonna love coco if you get it dialed. it can get frustrating though. keep it simple
    closetgrow69 and Pimples like this.
  10. Thought you were running Rockwool fed with Jacks (3-2-1)?
    turbo14 likes this.
  11. turbo14


    Runnin' two rooms.

    24kw ebb and flow rockwool fed Jacks

    20kw Gavita room Canna Coco fed Canna Nutes

    variety is the spice of life..

    McNaughty, closetgrow69 and GR33NL3AF like this.
  12. Good lord... Right on Turbo..

    Which has the higher GPW?
    turbo14 likes this.
  13. turbo14


    First round out of the Gavita 20 lighter so no numbers yet. I have ran a single 1000w gavita in my rockwool room for the past year, it has outshined every single hps light I have ever used period..

    I am assuming I can pull close to 43-45 Units out of the 20 lighter... 5 plants per light vegged right at 5 weeks.. Topped 5 or 6 times each.

    I have been getting a consistent 2-2.25# per light for the past 5 runs.. The Gavita get's over 2# every single run.
    This is 9 plants per light. I think I can hit similiar numbers with the 5 plants per light coco room.

    Both rooms are sealed with 5 ton air conditioners and co2 burners. (this is what's uppppp)

    love and light

    closetgrow69 and GR33NL3AF like this.
  14. Pimples


    This is a good thread. Smart fukers know what they arw talking about.
  15. Jory


    Hey Turbo,

    I’m sitting at about the same Ml per gal as you with A&B. Except I have Rhizo,Cannzym and a lil bit of Mamoth P as well going. But I haven’t supplemented with Cal mag yet, that’s my main question I can’t seem to get answered. Do I need to have CalMag with Canna Coco line if using RO water?