(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

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R

REGISTRD

Guest
excellent budboy,, I just relized crys has been using it too....
Thanks for the breakdown..only got macros here and Crop king shipping is out of control omg... anyone got a local spot in socal to pick up ferts...pm if needed...
 
P

PuFFnNugg

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InvisibleM I like to hear more about your Phosphorous levels and ratios. I have always thought I had to much P, but I never got it down that far, GH minus maybe 50 ppm P.

I usually bump up good bit right into flower then slowly peak. I think Sulphur helps strech too, but I always used in conjuction with a good deal of P.

I always wanted to try lower P, and will be using Bene's for one more cycle, so figured its a good time to try.

I'll post results, it will be a good test because I just ran high P, probably to high think I hurt Bene's just over 125 ppm P. But thats a different thread.

Also wondering if ratio has much affect on Sulphur, and if so with what? For example it seems that N-Ca, Ca-Mg, N-K ratios directly affect each other or more so than other nutes.

Is this the case with Sulphur, what about P?
 
MeJuana

MeJuana

320
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Re: Local pickup in Los Angeles area

Been looking REGISTRD but haven't found any please tell me if you do, although I ordered everything finally now!! I feel so "next levelish" hehehe
 
ogtealover420

ogtealover420

150
18
reading through here

First two labels from oregon website third and fourth from AN today.

Well the conni says "amino chelated" before or after the listing of each ingredient so how would one go about matching this formula exactly????? And BigBud has a list of aminos as well again how do we correctly match???? also if i where to mix my own nutes is there a way that my ph could be perfect for 7-10 days solid????? Also hoe do you know that you have pharmaceuticle grade matierials ??????:thinking
 
ogtealover420

ogtealover420

150
18
Here is a sales pitch on aminos. When I get home I can post some research. JK
Effects of Amion Acids on Plants
Every plant like any organism needs certain components for
growth over and above soil, sun, rain and air. The basic
component of living cells is Proteins, with building block material,
Amino Acids. Proteins are formed by sequence of Amino Acids.
Plants synthesize Amino Acids from the Primary elements, the
Carbon and Oxygen obtained from air, Hydrogen from water in
the soil, forming Carbon Hydrate by means of photosynthesis and
combining it with the Nitrogen which the plants obtain from the
soil, leading to synthesis of amino acids, by collateral metabolic
pathways. Only L-Amino Acids are part of these Proteins and
have metabolic activity.
The requirement of amino acids in essential quantities is well
known as a means to increase yield and overall quality of crops.
The application of amino acids for foliar use is based on its
requirement by plants in general and at critical stages of growth
in particular. Plants absorb Amino Acids through Stomas and is
proportionate to environment temperature.
Amino Acids are fundamental ingredients in the process of Protein
Synthesis. About 20 important Amino Acids are involved in the
process of each function. Studies have proved that Amino Acids
can directly or indirectly influence the physiological activities of the
plant.
Amino Acids are also supplied to plant by incorporating them into
the soil. It helps in improving the microflora of the soil thereby
facilitating the assimilation of nutrients.
Foliar Nutrition in the form of Protein Hydrolysate (Known as
Amino Acids Liquid) and foliar spray provide readymade building
blocks for Protein synthesis.
Protein Synthesis
Proteins have a structural function, metabolic function
(enzymes), a transport function and a stock of Amino Acids
function.
Only L - Amino Acids are assimilated by plants. D - Amino
Acids are not recognised by the enzymatic locus and therefore
can not participate in protein synthesis.
Hence Amino Acids obtained by organic synthesis are not
well assimilated.
Stress Resistance
Stress such as High temperature, Low humidity, Frost, Pest
attack, Hailstorm, Floods have a negative effect on plant
metabolism with a corresponding reduction in crop quality and
quantity.
The application of Amino Acids before, during and after the stress
conditions supplies the plants with Amino Acids which are directly
related to stress physiology and thus has a preventing and
recovering effect.
Effect of Photosynthesis
Plants synthesize carbohydrates by photosynthesis, Low
photosynthesis rate implies a slow growth leading to death of the
plant, chlorophyll is the responsible molecule for the absorption of
the light energy.
Glycine and Glutamic Acid are fundamental metabolites in the
process of formation of vegetable tissue and chlorophyll
synthesis.
These Amino Acids help to increase chlorophyll concentration in
the plant leading to higher degree of photosynthesis. This makes
crops lush Green.
Action on the Stomas
Stomas are the cellular structures that control the hydric balance
of the plant, the macro and micronutrient absorption and the
absorption of gases.
The opening of the stomas is controlled by both external factors
(light, humidity, temperature and salt concentration) and internal
factors (amino acids concentration, abcisic acid etc.)
The Stomas are closed when light and humidity are low &
temperature and salt concentration are high, when stomas are
closed photosynthesis and transpiration are reduced (low
absorption of macro & micronutrients) and respiration is
increased (Carbohydrate destruction)
In this case the metabolic balance of the plant is negative.
Catabolism is higher than anabolism. This implies slow metabolism
and stops the plant growth.
L-glutamic acid acts as a cytoplasm osmotic agent of the “guard
cells”. Thus favouring the opening of the stomas.
Chelating Effect
Amino Acids have a chelating effect on micronutrients. When
applied together with micronutrients, the absorption and
transportation of micronutrients inside the plant is easier.
This effect is due to the chelating action and to the effect of cell
membrane permiability.
L - Glycine & L - Glutamic Acid are known to be very effective
chelating agents.
Amino Acids & PhytohOrmones
Amino Acids are precursors or activators of phytohormones and
growth substances. L - Methionine is precursor of ethylene and of
growth factors such as Espermine and Espermidine, which are
synsthesized from 5 - Adenosyl Methionine.
L - Tryptophan is precursor for Auxin synthesis. L - Tryptophan
is used in plants in L - Form only. L - Tryptophan is available only
if hydrolysis of Protein is carried out by enzyme.
If hydrolysis is carried out by acid or alkali, as done in many
European countries,
L - Tryptophan is destroyed.
L - Arginine induces synthesis of flower and fruit related
hormones.
Pollination and Fruit Formation
Pollination is the transport of pollen to the pistil, so fecundation
and formation of the fruit is possible.
L - Proline helps in fertility of Pollen. L - Lysine, L - Methionine, L -
Glutamic Acid are essential amino acids for pollination.
These amino acids increase the pollen germination and the length
of the pollinic tube.
Equilibrium of Soil Flora
The equilibrium of the microbial flora of the agriculture soil is a
basic question for a good mineralisation of the organic matter and
also for a good soil structure and fertility around the roots.
L-methionine is precursor growth factors that stabilize the cell
walls of the microbial flora.
General
L - Glutamic Acid & L - Aspartic Acid, by transamination give rise to the
rest of the amino acids.
L - Proline & Hydroxy Proline act mainly on the hydric balance
of the plant strengthening the cellular walls in such a way that
they increase resistance to unfavourable climatic conditions.
L - Alanine, L - Valine & L - Leucine improve quality of fruits.
L - Histidine helps in proper ripening of fruits.2
AMINO ACIDS OBTAINED BY ENZYME
HYDROLYSIS - A FEW FACTS
1 CONSISTS OF TWENTY AMINO ACIDS.
2 ALL AMINO ACIDS ARE IN L FORM (NATURAL FORM) & ARE
ABSORBED QUICKLY & EASILY BY PLANTS.
3 NO CYCLIZATION OF GLUTAMINE WHICH IS IMPORTANT FOR
ENERGY METABOLISM.
4 NO DESTRUCTION OF ASPARGINE WHICH HAS ACTIVE
ROLE IN RESPIRATORY FUNCTION.
5 TRYPTOPHAN WHICH IS STARTING MATERIAL FOR
SYNTHESIS OF AUXIN IS AVAILABLE IN L FORM.
6 SERINE & THREONINE ARE FREE & IN L FORM.
7 ASPARTIC ACID & GLUTAMIC ACID WHICH ARE VERY
IMPORTANT AMINO ACIDS ARE AVAILABLE IN FREE L FORM FOR
EASY ABSORPTION.
8 AMIDE NITROGEN IS NOT FORMED.
9 HIGH PERCENTAGE OF BIOLOGICAL VALUE & NUTRITIVE
VALUE.
10 NO INORGANIC NITROGEN IS PRESENT.
11 HIGH QUALITY OF INTERNATIONAL STANDARD EXPORTED
WORLD OVER.
12 CONSUMPTION IS AT LEVEL OF 250 ml. PER ACRE, 2-3
SPRAYS. EXCESS DOSE IS NON TOXIC.
MANUFACTURED BYCOUNTRY SELECT Catfish
for HCA from100% CATFISH PROTEIN
P.O. BOX 271 ISOLA MS. 38754
PHONE 662-962-3101 OR 877-964-2885
FAX: 662-962-0118 OR 805-474-8531
web site http.//www.multibloom.com

wouldnt the rotten catfish foul up an rcdwc system???????
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
I just posted this to show what some feel there is in the value of amino. My normal supply is from veg(carrots I believe). Lately I have been using valagro's megafol, which works well in a foliar as it helps nutes thru the wax.

I have never ran that product but I would bet it would be stable in a rez. Call them and ask for a sample. JK
 
MeJuana

MeJuana

320
43
If you follow what sulfur pushes out, Mo, then what a lack of Mo shows as N deficiency I have a reason why sulfur might should be more closely monitored... Then the question becomes, when does it push stuff out.

Here's a list of elements that push other elements, I post with attention to Sulfur pushes Mo



P.S. Nutrient Deficiencies (So can show N deficiency from excess sulfur?) lol
 
Crysmatic

Crysmatic

529
43
aqua flakes a&b 4.6-3.4-9.9
bud xl 0.4-0-0.1
drip clean 0-18.7-6.1
top booster 0-7-5.8
shooting powder 0-39-25

at the recommended rates, the additives give the following ppm (approximately):

bud xl 4-0-1
drip clean 0-9-6
top booster 0-50-79
shooting powder 0-111-135

NPK w/o shooting powder (normalized):

week 1-3: 1.8-1.3-4 (1.4-1-3.1)
week 4: 2.6-2.2-5.6 (1.2-1-2.5)
week 5:2.8-4.5-7.8 (0.6-1-1.7)
week 6-7: 2.8-2.4-6.1 (1.2-1-2.5)
week 8: 1.5-1.5-3.1 (1-1-2)

apart from the 3-4 day blip in the fifth week, you could call it 1.2-1-2.5 throughout the entire cycle.

with shooting powder:

week 1-5: same as above
week 6-8: 1.4-5.8-5.9 (1-4.1-4.2)

the small change in NPK ratio is insignificant (imo) with bud xl and drip clean. i used 1.1 g/ml which is probably +/- 4% ppm.

one thing that sticks out is the super high PK at the end. it's close to ripe and overdrive. i think i'll make some up as my girls are close to harvest.

some still doubt that you can reverse engineer ferts. is shooting powder 49g MKP, and 16g magic powder? are the unlisted ingredients 'better' than the 'magic' powders AN lists? cutting base nutes to 50% probably requires more calmag and micros.
 
Crysmatic

Crysmatic

529
43
CNS17 Ripe recipe

my micros are ppm / g/L for A/B sol'n:
Fe 10 / 16.7
B 4 / 2.29
Mn 4 / 1.23
Zn 3 / 1.32
Cu 1 / 0.39
Mo 0.09 / 0.023

CNS17 Ripe is NPK-CaMg 69-151-230-86-35 ppm (35 S). the below recipe gives 69-151-230-72-35 (44 S) with 4% ammonium. pure calcium nitrate brings Ca to 78 ppm.

btw, i did Ripe vs Aqua Flakes + shooting powder because they have a guaranteed analysis (i didn't know what Ca and Mg should be with H&G) and it's pretty darned close.

part A
KNO3 10.3g
yara Ca(NO3)2 37.8g (straight calcium nitrate 46.2g)

part B
MgSO4 35.0g
KH2PO4 66.2g

1L each A and B stock solution.

in hydro buddy, i check off 'concentrated A and B (1:100)'. 'calculate weights for specific stock solution volume (specified below)'.
 
R

REGISTRD

Guest
Gotta luv how easy this is getting for us.. ...
whats this mean though: "1L 100x A/B sol'n"
im guessing 1 liter 100x concentrate A/B ???
R u using the setting for 10 res changes or you using the specified option??
 
MeJuana

MeJuana

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Hydrobuddy Question

If I was using Yara Brand Calcium Nitrate do *I* still set the percentage correctly under nutrient salts, or do I leave it 100%? 15.5 + 19 = 34.5% but it is default 100%. Also with say Iron FeDPTA 11%, do I set it to be 11%?

Edit: Post on this topic actually from Daniel Today, interesting makes me think he views this thread...
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
i messed up in post #81 for the AN recipes and i can't edit it:( here's a better version. i make no warranties for performance.

i use DNF straight calcium nitrate, which is 11.8-0-0.

connie + big bud:

potassium nitrate 300g
yara calcium nitrate 578g

magnesium sulphate 300g
potassium phosphate 190g
plus fatman micros
100x 4L
pH 6.05 3.94 mS

actual npk-ca-mg ppm 275-108-425-244-74. connie + big bud actually has 72-41 ppm ca-mg. you could probably run this all through flower, and you don't have to buy ammonium nitrate.

connie + overdrive:

ammonium nitrate 172g
potassium nitrate 247g
yara calcium nitrate 511g

magnesium sulphate 300g
potassium phosphate 244g
plus fatman micros
100x 4L
pH 5.94 4.01 mS

actual npk-ca-mg ppm 297-139-413-216-74 with 30ppm ammonium.

I read where you are running this formula. Do you find using K nitrate so early in bud that you get big bud but not as dense and smaller trics? JK
 
K

kuz

678
63
Crysmatic, in another thread you asked about why I was using potassium sulphate and potassium chloride and its because I wanted low amounts of potassium nitrate early on but still wanted K to be two time N.
Didnt say anything because I dont know where I came up with that, maybe dreaming it. lol
 
MeJuana

MeJuana

320
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this is a really nice site, i just stumbled upon it by accident and definitely packed full on info. He also just released a free nutrient calculator (although im not sure how accurate it is, I've had some difference with my hand calculation) :)

Is this still true that you find differences by hand calculations with Hydrobuddy? How did you learn how to calculate it all out using molar masses and etc. That is so damn confusing.

Edit: squarepusher do a search for a program called Chembuddy, it has all the molar masses and some technical info with a 30 day free trial, fun to play with.
 
P

PuFFnNugg

68
0
CLEAREX

Clearex’s main ingredients are sugars glucose and sucrose. There are other inert ingredients that are electrolyte forming which are sodium based. Clearex is formulated with proprietary ingredients that help maintain the osmotic pressure around the root membrane while gently pulling away the salt build up around the roots and in the soil. Clearex contains hexose sugars, and does not contain sodium benzoate but it won’t mold any easier than other bottled fertilizers or flushing agents if kept in a cool dark place. Clearex will expire though after about 2yrs.

Before applying Clearex Foliar Spray plants with pure water. Use it in the early morning or evenings. Clearex can be added to res with nutes in it if you drain to waste. I did not know that.

Cysmatic I stated earlier in thread that all botanicare has sugar, but I had PB Pro on the brain n most the supplements do too, I wanted to correct myself but figured I would wait n confirm the rest of your question. Srry bout that.

Sugar is not a listed ingredient for the PBP series, it is contained within the formula as a bi-product so no guaranteed percentage is going to be present on the label and no it doesn’t need to be accounted for in calculating ppms. There are no sugars in the CNS or Power series line, they are both fully synthetic.

Mejuana thanks for those links, good info. To calculate by hand is kind of self explanatory, your just try'n to get down to Mg/L, just a lot of steps. I google'd it when I was doing some calc's just to make sure I was doing it right.:anim_44:

I checked a couple on Canna calculator and they came back right, I was wondering the same thing about Hydrobuddy. It seems to get confused sometimes. I'm gonna check my program by hand here soon, I'll let you know how it comes back.
 
MeJuana

MeJuana

320
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Funny you are talking about Botanicare Pure Blend Pro and supplements I am going to build a supplement fatman micros trace mineral mix to supplement Botanicare for a friend of mine. So I started trying to figure out which traces Botanicare has now, and by what I see it is just CalMag and so low of a mix I will just give my Fatman micro mix to them as well, as if they had NO trace elements..

Cal-Mag Plus = (1ml per gallon = .032 Iron FeDPTA PPM per gallon

Pure Blend Pro Bloom

Sweet "Berry"

Karma
 
P

PuFFnNugg

68
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A lot of traces in Hydroplex, amino's too. But I think the majority of the trace's are in Hydroplex. Karma is primarily Kelp and Humic, I pretty sure B vitamin from Kelp and other Traces but don't know exactly how much of what. They won't be listed, but maybe some research on Kelp? Should be able to figure out amount of Kelp from N-P-K ratio n go from there.


This link will save you the trouble of doing it by hand Mejuana and it's free! Just enter chemical compound just like seen on Hydrobuddy with a . instead of +. Gives you molar weights and %!

http://www.lenntech.com/calculators/molecular/molecular-weight-calculator.htm
 
Crysmatic

Crysmatic

529
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I read where you are running this formula. Do you find using K nitrate so early in bud that you get big bud but not as dense and smaller trics? JK

this is my first time running this regimen...so i have no basis for comparison. this is also my first time mixing my own nutes, and first time running soiless outside. my colas are filling in now...i'll let you know how dense they are when they're done.

what is it about KNO3 that makes buds loose? do you use ammonium earlier in flower?

i just ran ripe in hydro buddy with potassium sulphate, and no potassium nitrate. i get 69-151-229-85-35. the only difference is calcium goes up about 13 ppm. there's the same ppm of nitrates...so what's going on here that makes harder buds?

mejuana: purity has to do with whether or not a salt is cut with an adulterant. Pure MKP is 0-52-34. 100g of pure MKP contains 52g P (really P2O5). shooting powder is 0-39-25. 100g of shooting powder has 39g P. 39/52 = 75% pure. does that make sense?

edit: epsom salts is magnesium sulphate heptahydrate. it is 9.86% magnesium. wiki is handy for molar masses.
 
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