First Ever Grow, No Til, Documenting Every Learning Step

[Ecompost]

I'm super happy i found some local compost and lava rocks, i wont be spending $200+ on my base soil mixture lol. 100% local all green debris nothing else $28 for a yard, and another $28 for a yard of 3/8th" screened lava rocks!

now i just need to figure out somewhere to store it out without it being an eyesore lol!

does anyone have a "goto" search for local amendments? malt barley should be fairly easy, but i don't even know where i'd find gypsum, kelp. bassalt, crab meal, or biochar in bulk locally.

honestly i think im just slightly "special" when it comes to searching for shit online lol!

buildasoil.com

 

[FutureGrower]

buildasoil.com

ah yeah i was just looking for a larger amount near me lol. i found some stuff like pumice 3/8" locally for $30 for a cubic yard was just wondering if there was any keywords that weren't intuitively known to search for locally :D

 

[Ecompost]

ah yeah i was just looking for a larger amount near me lol. i found some stuff like pumice 3/8" locally for $30 for a cubic yard was just wondering if there was any keywords that weren't intuitively known to search for locally :D

I am quite a literal searcher, so i write the obvious. The train made us all move miles away... well thats the rumor, before that everyone lived next to the river.

 

[FutureGrower]

So i finally got around to building my light, this thing is silly how damn bright it is, i thought the CMH was bright but this is something different entirely lol.

so far it runs so cool that i can actually hold my finger on the LED with only slight discomfort.

I really wanted to finish out my 2nd cycle without any other lighting but my CMH to see what my imrpovements are from my first cycle, but i can see it's better well before i switched lights so i unfortunately wont be comparing side by side.

My plant looks a little silly under a 46"x44" frame light but there's almost ZERO shadows and it probably cost me around $500 to build i'll post pics in a minute

 

[FutureGrower]

..

 

[FutureGrower]

I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN ANYTHING LIGHTING CANNABIS OR LIFE RELATED! TAKE EVERYTHING HERE AS SIMPLY ME SHARING MY LEARNING EXPERIENCES TO POSSIBLY SHORTEN YOUR LEARNING CURVE. I'M NOT ATTEMPTING TO GIVE BAD, OR SELF SERVICING ADVICE! ALL GROWING METHODS ARE COOL I'M JUST TRYING TO SHARE MY EXPERIENCE

So i made the thread title "documenting every learning step" and i haven't exactly stayed true to that, it's a lot of work to rethink of stuff you learned even a week ago and the process you had of learning, but i'll give it a shot.

So first of all, as some of you guys know i started growing with a 315 watt LEC, and even though it's way more efficient than a hps/mh system it still produced a lot more heat than I'd like, and you really only have 2 major spectrum to work with, and limited setups (mainly 315w or 630w.)

(I'm getting very interested in general gardening though i haven't done much with that interest... hopefully in the future i'll further pursue other growing ventures) But for now and the foreseeable future i see myself growing cannabis, and i also have became a much bigger stoner than i thought I'd ever turn into, so i realized one plant in a 25g pot wasn't going to be enough if i wanted to supply myself.

Since my 315 LEC had plenty of room for one plant but nowhere near enough for 2 i was considering getting 3 of them for a 4x4 or 5x5 area. I started playing with configurations in my room and just couldn't figure out anything i liked, so i looked into cheap (shit) quality LED's where i eventually found a youtube channel called GrowMau5 i believe.

Growmau5 gave me a general concept for DIY LED builds with Chip on board (COB) style lights and lighting. After watching his videos and many others i decided Vero29 C COB's were the way i was going to be going. I got onto another forum that almost specializes in LED builds and they directed me to bridgelux's EB2 strips, and Samsung F Strips (as well as quantum boards but the price gap gets pretty huge so primarily the strips.)

I really wanted to go with the Samsung F Strips, they're just sorta the "gold standard" or "mainstream" whatever, I'll be completely honest, Samsung has a bigger name than Bridgelux.

Doing alot of addition research the samsung strips cost more but can be driven harder. They create more heat because of this so they are highly recommended to purchase heat sinks with them (you might as well add 25% cost to the strips. maybe more maybe a little less.)

The Bridgelux EB2 series strips cost around half as much but they're able to take less current and they have less diodes per strip. Because of the price gap you can purchase almost 2 of the bridgelux strips for the price of 1 samsung strip. If you drive the Bridgelux's soft enough you won't need to purchase heat sinks because they run a lot softer.

A standout advantage between the two (in my eyes) is you can double the "effective" light coverage with the bridgelux strips. This is crucial because when running the strips soft some people will run as close as 6" from their canopies in flowering so light blockage would probably become a huge issue.

Another Plus for the Bridgelux is their price and not needing heat sinks...

For me i have 20 1" wide by 44" long strips over a structure that's 44x46" with spacing between them that's less than 1.5" between strips and probably 2" maybe 2.5" between diodes (they're on the center of the strip). Moving from my LEC to this LED i notice i have nearly no shadows which means i'm getting great even penetration. Since I've never used Samsung strips i don't know if they would have the same penetration as the bridgelux's (maybe somebody here has them and can chime in!)

I'm sorta running out of steam to keep this going and i'm about 3 joints into some good kush so i may no longer have any coherent thoughts but fuck it right?! lol

So my knowledge of PPFD (commonly read as PAR) and L/W (Lumens per watt) is minimum. But the process you are looking for with lighting is running less current through the strips (the softer you run them the less light you will produce but the better quality of light your plants will receive.) There's a huge diminishing return on this and there's many sweet spots, but just know the softer you drive them the better quality light your plants receive, and if you have issues with heat the softer you run them they will run substantially cooler.

In order to combine all the components you absolutely need to do some DIY stuff, and if that's not a normal thing for you, there's going to be a learning curve! Chip at it over a few weeks and be patient and do your research before making any orders, and don't go over the top! If you're currently growing and you're interested in switching to LED's take your time, especially if you're budget limited!

The thing about the DIY LED builds (that i haven't explored but plan to soon) is that you can do as much or little as you want. You can add some 620nm reds for dirt cheap to kick in a little better flowering period, or build a 100 watt seedling build for probably $150 (i figure about 125 for a nice setup including $25 for a misc learning curve of stuff you don't need.) Once you build one system you'll have the idea of what you need to do. From there your only limits are your budget and of course time!

One thing I'd recommend is learning parallel versus series wiring, there's many videos on it and there's a few based on LED stuff strictly that may help you wrap your head around it a little faster. Once you've done enough research you'll know have an idea of what you want for what you're doing rather than what somebody else tells you to want.

 

[Ecompost]

I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN ANYTHING LIGHTING CANNABIS OR LIFE RELATED! TAKE EVERYTHING HERE AS SIMPLY ME SHARING MY LEARNING EXPERIENCES TO POSSIBLY SHORTEN YOUR LEARNING CURVE. I'M NOT ATTEMPTING TO GIVE BAD, OR SELF SERVICING ADVICE! ALL GROWING METHODS ARE COOL I'M JUST TRYING TO SHARE MY EXPERIENCE

So i made the thread title "documenting every learning step" and i haven't exactly stayed true to that, it's a lot of work to rethink of stuff you learned even a week ago and the process you had of learning, but i'll give it a shot.

So first of all, as some of you guys know i started growing with a 315 watt LEC, and even though it's way more efficient than a hps/mh system it still produced a lot more heat than I'd like, and you really only have 2 major spectrum to work with, and limited setups (mainly 315w or 630w.)

(I'm getting very interested in general gardening though i haven't done much with that interest... hopefully in the future i'll further pursue other growing ventures) But for now and the foreseeable future i see myself growing cannabis, and i also have became a much bigger stoner than i thought I'd ever turn into, so i realized one plant in a 25g pot wasn't going to be enough if i wanted to supply myself.

Since my 315 LEC had plenty of room for one plant but nowhere near enough for 2 i was considering getting 3 of them for a 4x4 or 5x5 area. I started playing with configurations in my room and just couldn't figure out anything i liked, so i looked into cheap (shit) quality LED's where i eventually found a youtube channel called GrowMau5 i believe.

Growmau5 gave me a general concept for DIY LED builds with Chip on board (COB) style lights and lighting. After watching his videos and many others i decided Vero29 C COB's were the way i was going to be going. I got onto another forum that almost specializes in LED builds and they directed me to bridgelux's EB2 strips, and Samsung F Strips (as well as quantum boards but the price gap gets pretty huge so primarily the strips.)

I really wanted to go with the Samsung F Strips, they're just sorta the "gold standard" or "mainstream" whatever, I'll be completely honest, Samsung has a bigger name than Bridgelux.

Doing alot of addition research the samsung strips cost more but can be driven harder. They create more heat because of this so they are highly recommended to purchase heat sinks with them (you might as well add 25% cost to the strips. maybe more maybe a little less.)

The Bridgelux EB2 series strips cost around half as much but they're able to take less current and they have less diodes per strip. Because of the price gap you can purchase almost 2 of the bridgelux strips for the price of 1 samsung strip. If you drive the Bridgelux's soft enough you won't need to purchase heat sinks because they run a lot softer.

A standout advantage between the two (in my eyes) is you can double the "effective" light coverage with the bridgelux strips. This is crucial because when running the strips soft some people will run as close as 6" from their canopies in flowering so light blockage would probably become a huge issue.

Another Plus for the Bridgelux is their price and not needing heat sinks...

For me i have 20 1" wide by 44" long strips over a structure that's 44x46" with spacing between them that's less than 1.5" between strips and probably 2" maybe 2.5" between diodes (they're on the center of the strip). Moving from my LEC to this LED i notice i have nearly no shadows which means i'm getting great even penetration. Since I've never used Samsung strips i don't know if they would have the same penetration as the bridgelux's (maybe somebody here has them and can chime in!)

I'm sorta running out of steam to keep this going and i'm about 3 joints into some good kush so i may no longer have any coherent thoughts but fuck it right?! lol

So my knowledge of PPFD (commonly read as PAR) and L/W (Lumens per watt) is minimum. But the process you are looking for with lighting is running less current through the strips (the softer you run them the less light you will produce but the better quality of light your plants will receive.) There's a huge diminishing return on this and there's many sweet spots, but just know the softer you drive them the better quality light your plants receive, and if you have issues with heat the softer you run them they will run substantially cooler.

In order to combine all the components you absolutely need to do some DIY stuff, and if that's not a normal thing for you, there's going to be a learning curve! Chip at it over a few weeks and be patient and do your research before making any orders, and don't go over the top! If you're currently growing and you're interested in switching to LED's take your time, especially if you're budget limited!

The thing about the DIY LED builds (that i haven't explored but plan to soon) is that you can do as much or little as you want. You can add some 620nm reds for dirt cheap to kick in a little better flowering period, or build a 100 watt seedling build for probably $150 (i figure about 125 for a nice setup including $25 for a misc learning curve of stuff you don't need.) Once you build one system you'll have the idea of what you need to do. From there your only limits are your budget and of course time!

One thing I'd recommend is learning parallel versus series wiring, there's many videos on it and there's a few based on LED stuff strictly that may help you wrap your head around it a little faster. Once you've done enough research you'll know have an idea of what you want for what you're doing rather than what somebody else tells you to want.

awesome post brother

 

[FutureGrower]

So I harvested my auto flower and got fairly disappointing yields (a little less than last time.) But that’s completely my fault, I over trained a auto flower and under trained it at the same time. The buds look a little better then last run and visually they look a little dense than last run. We will see after it dries.

I’m very glad to downsize to 15 gallon pots in my next grow. With the 25 I always had a slight crust on the top followed by loose soil under it, I just figured I needed a dash more of gypsum next cycle. However I pulled the roots out of the soil since i’m Transferring it over anyway and found tiny roots. When I dug down beyond 5-6” the soil became very compact, and unfortunately 2/3 of my soil was unavailable to the plant.

Last time around I took a probably 15 gallon plastic container filled it 3/4 to the top with peat and filled it to the top with water for a night. I had broken it up prior but I left maybe 2/3” chunks of peat.

This time around I’m going through crazy amounts of effort to make sure my peat is FULLY soaked through and doesn’t have even the tiniest clumps. I broke the peat up to a very fine consistency to start. From there I soaked the peat using my sprayer and adjusting the peat with my hands non stop until it was soaked through. I started on a corner and went all the way down and jut kept going til everything was covered. This took a rediculously long time and I don’t recommend it but It’s one way to make sure your peat isn’t dry.

I’m actually more excited that I figured it my soil was compact then bummed... if my soil was this bad and still did this, there’s only room for improvements!

 

[Wishbone]

So I harvested my auto flower and got fairly disappointing yields (a little less than last time.) But that’s completely my fault, I over trained a auto flower and under trained it at the same time. The buds look a little better then last run and visually they look a little dense than last run. We will see after it dries.

I’m very glad to downsize to 15 gallon pots in my next grow. With the 25 I always had a slight crust on the top followed by loose soil under it, I just figured I needed a dash more of gypsum next cycle. However I pulled the roots out of the soil since i’m Transferring it over anyway and found tiny roots. When I dug down beyond 5-6” the soil became very compact, and unfortunately 2/3 of my soil was unavailable to the plant.

Last time around I took a probably 15 gallon plastic container filled it 3/4 to the top with peat and filled it to the top with water for a night. I had broken it up prior but I left maybe 2/3” chunks of peat.

This time around I’m going through crazy amounts of effort to make sure my peat is FULLY soaked through and doesn’t have even the tiniest clumps. I broke the peat up to a very fine consistency to start. From there I soaked the peat using my sprayer and adjusting the peat with my hands non stop until it was soaked through. I started on a corner and went all the way down and jut kept going til everything was covered. This took a rediculously long time and I don’t recommend it but It’s one way to make sure your peat isn’t dry.

I’m actually more excited that I figured it my soil was compact then bummed... if my soil was this bad and still did this, there’s only room for improvements!

Interesting observation. I’m on my first round of no til too and not sure how it will turn out, but tips like this will have me better prepared for the next round along with things I have been learning along the way as well.

 

[FutureGrower]

Interesting observation. I’m on my first round of no til too and not sure how it will turn out, but tips like this will have me better prepared for the next round along with things I have been learning along the way as well.

Thanks for the reply and I'm glad it may help! Good luck on your grow, do you have a thread to follow?

 

[Wishbone]

Thanks for the reply and I'm glad it may help! Good luck on your grow, do you have a thread to follow?

I do, take a look, always open to additional advice.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/wishbone’s-outdoor-round-2.97564/

 

[FutureGrower]

Upon further thought I believe what happened was between cycles I stopped watering the media. I soaked the hell out of it and thought I soaked it through before starting the 2nd cycle but I just didn’t.

I think the first cycle the soil was probably fine, and everything I did is probably not needed and way overboard, just wanted to throw some thoughts that were floating around my head :)

 

[Ecompost]

Upon further thought I believe what happened was between cycles I stopped watering the media. I soaked the hell out of it and thought I soaked it through before starting the 2nd cycle but I just didn’t.

I think the first cycle the soil was probably fine, and everything I did is probably not needed and way overboard, just wanted to throw some thoughts that were floating around my head :)

allowing media to dry in organic systems is a bad idea typically. Some drying is a good thing, where we reduce moisture but dont drop below a minimum threshold, but over drying is very bad. Usually the media becomes hydrophobic esp if its peat, coco and so on but all media is susceptible and so re-wetting is problematic, with water taking the path of least resistance and so passing out leaving wide dry spots.
Calcium uptake is dependent on even and moist media, eg between 40-60% and we regularly get fungal infections where calcium levels drop off.

If you media has over dried, you might try using a saponin based product but make sure its Organic and not just some non ionic surfactant. We make a product called Bio Hydrate this is friendly for soil microbes whilst providing the all important reduction of water tension, so producing a more even wetting, thus aiding nutrient uptake and lowering watering needs by about 1/3 overall across a cycle.

Best Eco

 

[Wishbone]

allowing media to dry in organic systems is a bad idea typically. Some drying is a good thing, where we reduce moisture but dont drop below a minimum threshold, but over drying is very bad. Usually the media becomes hydrophobic esp if its peat, coco and so on but all media is susceptible and so re-wetting is problematic, with water taking the path of least resistance and so passing out leaving wide dry spots.
Calcium uptake is dependent on even and moist media, eg between 40-60% and we regularly get fungal infections where calcium levels drop off.

If you media has over dried, you might try using a saponin based product but make sure its Organic and not just some non ionic surfactant. We make a product called Bio Hydrate this is friendly for soil microbes whilst providing the all important reduction of water tension, so producing a more even wetting, thus aiding nutrient uptake and lowering watering needs by about 1/3 overall across a cycle.

Best Eco

Any recommendations for storing soil over the winter? I was thinking of dumping all the soil, currently in smart pots ~100 gals total, in a dark corner of the yard and covering with a tarp til spring, letting it vibe with Mother Earth for the winter. Then waking it up with new amendments water etc. in the spring.

 

[FutureGrower]

allowing media to dry in organic systems is a bad idea typically. Some drying is a good thing, where we reduce moisture but dont drop below a minimum threshold, but over drying is very bad. Usually the media becomes hydrophobic esp if its peat, coco and so on but all media is susceptible and so re-wetting is problematic, with water taking the path of least resistance and so passing out leaving wide dry spots.
Calcium uptake is dependent on even and moist media, eg between 40-60% and we regularly get fungal infections where calcium levels drop off.

If you media has over dried, you might try using a saponin based product but make sure its Organic and not just some non ionic surfactant. We make a product called Bio Hydrate this is friendly for soil microbes whilst providing the all important reduction of water tension, so producing a more even wetting, thus aiding nutrient uptake and lowering watering needs by about 1/3 overall across a cycle.

Best Eco

Thank you man. I may be getting this third cycle started soon but it'll be with different media. I spread my 25g in my backyard and I planted 3 aloes into the ground with it. Our winters are generally relatively mild. Snows a few times here or there though so im thinking of I do a layer of mulch to insulate them when it gets a little chillier and seeing if they make it.

Also I don't have them even ordered yet but I'll be running blumats just so I don't have the watering issue, a long with a quality moisture meter.

This last run was sort of me wanting to expand and grow more cannabis. This run will be dialing things in. Soil in particular is going to be my focus. It should've been my focus from the start but just a small reminder to anyone reading; this thread quite literally shows the first thing I've ever grow, so my learning curve was overwhelming. I'm learning and continuously going to share my mistakes with you guys to potentially help someone.

 

[FutureGrower]

Any recommendations for storing soil over the winter? I was thinking of dumping all the soil, currently in smart pots ~100 gals total, in a dark corner of the yard and covering with a tarp til spring, letting it vibe with Mother Earth for the winter. Then waking it up with new amendments water etc. in the spring.

I think @Ecompost idea of the bio hydrate or organic saponins to rehydrate. I would (please read over this @Ecompost) soaked the media through several times using the bio hydrate or sappnins through the day and do compost teas to bring back some of the dormant life and let the soil come back together for a couple weeks before planting...

I'm not an expert this was just my first thoughts hopefully ecompost will help you if any of that was bad information :)

 

[Wishbone]

I think @Ecompost idea of the bio hydrate or organic saponins to rehydrate. I would (please read over this @Ecompost) soaked the media through several times using the bio hydrate or sappnins through the day and do compost teas to bring back some of the dormant life and let the soil come back together for a couple weeks before planting...

I'm not an expert this was just my first thoughts hopefully ecompost will help you if any of that was bad information :)

Thanks, I definitely think that makes sense for waking it up, just wondering what would serve the soil best over the winter (in CO so it will be below freezing quite a bit), to keep it alive and “brewing”.

 

[Ecompost]

I think @Ecompost idea of the bio hydrate or organic saponins to rehydrate. I would (please read over this @Ecompost) soaked the media through several times using the bio hydrate or sappnins through the day and do compost teas to bring back some of the dormant life and let the soil come back together for a couple weeks before planting...

I'm not an expert this was just my first thoughts hopefully ecompost will help you if any of that was bad information :)

Living roots man, this is the key. The worlds best soil improver is a plant. Try cover cropping, clover, alfalfa rye etc, terminate this with black plastic ahead of planting next year. Otherwise just remove it, keep it in the dark and keep it damp. If you dont let it dry, you should be good.
Hope that helps

 

[Ecompost]

Thanks, I definitely think that makes sense for waking it up, just wondering what would serve the soil best over the winter (in CO so it will be below freezing quite a bit), to keep it alive and “brewing”.

choose a plant you know grows in winter there, if you cant take the soil to a warmer location, you might just cover it in landscape fabric black plastic etc to over winter it

 

[Ecompost]

Any recommendations for storing soil over the winter? I was thinking of dumping all the soil, currently in smart pots ~100 gals total, in a dark corner of the yard and covering with a tarp til spring, letting it vibe with Mother Earth for the winter. Then waking it up with new amendments water etc. in the spring.

yes good idea