Flush with sugar or no sugar

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ShipWrecked

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Just wanted to hear what others are doing during flush...

I've had good results using a 1 week flush of RO water with just 1-2 teaspoons (5-10 ml) of molasses for every 5 gallons. Always tempted by H&G Drip Clean but never used, some use it as a PK boost as well.
 
OGONLY

OGONLY

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I flushed 15 days with straight R/O and everything came out perfect. Used Bud Candy from week 2 to week 8, running it at about 1/4 strength. The last 2 weeks just R/O.

I did use Drip Clean throughout at .4 ml/gal (100% Canna Coco) with nutes. I happen to have almost a full gallon of Final Phase that I decided not to use. Figured it wasn't needed since I planned on flushing so long.

I'll tell you what...this stuff (all 6 strains) is so smooth I can't even feel a big bong hit. The exhale is pure flavor. Absolutley no sqinting or nose tingle with this stuff.
 
mastacheeser

mastacheeser

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drip clean is just supposed to remove the salts before they build up, so if theres nothing in your water to build up, no reason for drip clean
i saw advanced dropped the molasses from bud candy, so now im running flora nectar
just straight R/O for the last week for me (aero)
 
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ShipWrecked

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drip clean is just supposed to remove the salts before they build up, so if theres nothing in your water to build up, no reason for drip clean
i saw advanced dropped the molasses from bud candy, so now im running flora nectar
just straight R/O for the last week for me (aero)

Your nutes will cause build up and lock out not just hard water. Easy to see on the insides of my pots towards the end. Drip clean is also a fert not just a flush so if it works keep it up.
 
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hoog

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With Sugar. You lose flavor if you don't. Don't let anyone tell you something else. It's the reason why their bud doesnt taste as good :)

Blackstrap or Canna Boost, best products on the market imo.
 
mastacheeser

mastacheeser

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the plant naturally looses sugars through the roots, adding sugars will slow this process
also its very plant dependant on what absorbs sugar and what doesnt. not doubting you all all just looking for more info. can you expand a little bit or send me something to read?

and with drip clean dont use it with flush, its ment to be used with every watering.
 
Bud Spleefman

Bud Spleefman

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the plant naturally looses sugars through the roots, adding sugars will slow this process
also its very plant dependant on what absorbs sugar and what doesnt. not doubting you all all just looking for more info. can you expand a little bit or send me something to read?

and with drip clean dont use it with flush, its ment to be used with every watering.

I read an article in Maximum Yield or some similar magazine recently about how the plants can't replace the sugars used in photosynthesis by absorbing them back via the roots, they have to make these sugars themselves... it also said that sugars slow osmosis occuring at the rootzone... so they end of the story was that a lot of these sugar products like Sweet and Carboload are a waste of money. I need to look for the article, it was quite pertinent to this thread....
 
Bud Spleefman

Bud Spleefman

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Alright, I have to humbly retract my earlier comments about plant roots absorbing sugars, the do absorb Sucrose and Glucose, which happen to be the active ingredients in Clearex! Here's the article, it's good....

http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/07/expert-eye-carbohydrates-and-amino-acid-products/

Expert Eye: Carbohydrates and Amino Acid Products
By Urban Garden Magazine ⋅ July 12, 2010 ⋅ Email This Post ⋅ Print This Post ⋅ Post a comment
Filed Under amino, amino acid, amino acids, aminos, carbohydrates, carbs, casparian, casparian strip, Issue 11, molasses, phloem, Plant Nutrition, Roots, Steve Berlow, steven berlow, sugar, xylem
What’s the big deal with carbohydrate and amino acid products these days? Are they being used or misused by growers? We asked Steve Berlow, a research consultant for Florigen Laboratories in BC, Canada to give us his insider perspective on the rise of carbohydrate and amino acid based products in the marketplace in recent years…

The hydroponics and indoor gardening industry is rapidly changing and evolving. Recently the pace of that change has become quite staggering with new products seeming to appear almost daily – nowhere is this more prominent than in the field of plant nutrition. In the last few years the hydroponic nutrient market has progressed from offering base nutrients and some phosphorus flowering boosters through to today’s market where a staggering (some might say ‘bewildering’) array of new technologies and theories are promoted.
Two product types that have been causing a lot of chatter in the growing community are carbohydrate (sugar) supplements and amino acid based additives. And for good reason. Sugars and amino acids are both interesting concepts in the context of plant nutrition and many experts consider them to be on the cutting edge. All sounds pretty exciting doesn’t it? But before you rush off and buy that next fancy-labelled bottle of sugary or amino acid goodness, you really should get your head around some basic facts concerning these substances and the ability of plants to make use of them.

Carbohydrates – Are They Really ‘Candy’ For Your Plants?
You’ve probably heard the hype about carbs: “Feed your plants supplemental carbs and turn them into Olympic Gold Medal winners!”
So a grower walks into their local store, decides to buy a big bottle of some sugary carb supplement, with the intention of deploying it on his next res change. The notion is that the plants will suck up the carbs and get a boost of ‘pure energy’ without having to go through the hassle of producing them as a product of photosynthesis.
Errrr, sorry to spoil the big carb party, but it’s not actually that straight forward. The carbohydrate supplement is definitely a case where theory got ahead of practice. In theory providing your plants with an array of simple and complex carbohydrates seems like a great idea. We all know that plants, driven by light energy and photosynthesis, produce sugar and starch. The plant uses this for growth and development. So the theory goes – if we supplement our nutrient solution with those very same sugars and starches, then the plant won’t have to make them all for itself and can therefore devote its energy to other things – such as making big flowers and fruits! Alternatively, if the plant is undergoing a period of physical stress (such as flowering or fruiting) then the supplementation of those sugars and starches will enable the plant to grow and develop at warp speed as we have removed a limiting factor. Unfortunately all this seems feasible in a text book but, as usual, these things are rarely as simple in real life.
Why not? Well, put simply, it’s one thing to supplement a plant with carbs in a lab, quite another to do so in vivo (real life – real situation.) You can inject carbs directly into a stem or a leaf, for instance, using laboratory techniques, but surely the crunch question is: can a plant uptake carbohydrates through its roots? I have been involved in research that aimed to determine whether plants could actually uptake and utilize carbohydrates and, if so, what could they uptake and utilize. Carbohydrates range in size from very small, simple structures like glucose or fructose through to enormously large, complex molecules like polysaccharides. So – did I find that plants could uptake simple and complex carbohydrates? Other than some very simple, and small carbohydrates (e.g. plain table sugar or fructose / glucose) plants essentially cannot take up other more complex carbohydrates through their root zone. Why? It’s because of a unique little barrier in the roots called the Casparian strip – complete with his sidekick the endodermis. Essentially the Casparian strip forces everything, and that includes carbohydrates, through the endodermis to be actively selected or rejected for uptake.

Ready For The Science Bit? Introducing The Casparian Strip – Your Plant’s Very Own Homeland Security!
Inside the roots of your plants sits a very innocuous and extremely important band of cells – called the Casparian Strip. I like to think of this as a sort of “security guard” for your plant. It is used to block the passive flow of materials ( travelling between the cells), such as water and solutes into the main water carrying columns of the plant – the xylem and phloem. By doing this it forces everything to actively pass through or be rejected by the endodermis. Once within the epidermis, water passes through the cortex, mainly traveling between the cells. However, in order to enter the stele, it must pass through the cytoplasm of the cells of the endodermis. Once within the stele, water is free again to move between cells as well as through them. For solutes to pass through the endodermis they must be in inorganic, ionic form to be transported across to the stele. As you can see getting water and nutrients inside your plants is no easy process!
An interesting side note for people who grow with organic nutrients.
When you hear of the virtues of organic fertilizers, remember that such materials are unable to meet any nutritional needs of the plant until they have been degraded / converted into inorganic forms. Organic matter does play an important role in making good soil texture and rhizosphere health, but it can only meet the nutritional needs of the plant to the extent that it can yield inorganic ions. Once within the epidermis, only the inorganic ions pass inward from cell to cell.

Amino Acid supplements and supplementation – possible or possibilities?
Okay, after that bombshell, let’s take a look at Amino Acids. These are fascinating little things, these miniature building blocks of protein – body builders love them and, according to many growers, plants do too. So what roles do amino acids play in plant nutrition?


Table 1 shows the 21 Proteinogenic Amino Acids
There are total of 21 Amino Acids used in the production of protein and you’ve probably seen most of them listed on the back of a bottle by now. They are known as Proteinogenic Amino Acids

Every chemical reaction or process that goes on inside a plant relies on protein. From photosynthesis through to hormone production, growth and development, stress – proteins are used by the plant for every aspect of its life, so we can see that amino acids are very important in the big scheme of things.
This importance has not escaped the attention of researchers or manufacturers of plant nutrients and additives. We are now seeing quite a few emerging products that contain these essential building blocks of life. One area being examined by both researchers and manufacturers are amino acids that are direct precursors to hormones. Tryptophan is one popular amino acid being researched as it is the direct precursor to IAA - a powerful growth hormone. Arginine is one of the precursors for cytokinins and is a major player in the production of flowers and fruits on a biochemical level. Other exciting roles of amino acids include their part in mitigating plant stress. Proline is produced by the plant in huge quantities during times of stress to assist with osmotic balance and to maintain a positive water status.
Amino acids are also used as a source of nitrogen in the root zone as they are delaminated by rhizosphere bacteria and fungi. The bacteria feed on the amino acids and in return nitrogen, in the form of ammonia, is released which can be absorbed by the plant. Ammonia is very rapidly absorbed and utilized by the plant and, in small quantities, is very beneficial to the support of rapid growth and development.
A new and very exciting and emerging area of amino acid research, and one that I am very actively involved in, is the role played by accumulated amino acids. In plants, the roles of accumulated amino acids varies from acting as an osmolyte, the regulation of ion transport, modulating stomatal opening, and detoxification of heavy metals. Amino acids also affect the synthesis and activity of enzymes, and most excitingly of all play a major role in gene expression!
So it’s readily apparent why plant nutrient manufacturers would be interested in the humble amino acid – they could be very useful to growers! As useful as might be, amino acids are also commonly misunderstood – just like the carbohydrates we looked at earlier. Once again theory is getting way in front of reality.
As with carbohydrates no one really looked at whether plants can take actively up amino acids through their roots. A major focus of my research is examining how or if plants can take up amino acids via their roots. One method is to feed plants a solution of radioactively labelled amino acids and then take special x-rays of the whole plant 24 hours later. You can actually visualize the extent of the amino acid uptake. In all of the experiments I’ve been involved in, almost none of the amino acid solution fed to the plants had been absorbed by the roots and transported to the leaves. So what’s at play here? Once again it’s the role of the Capsarian strip and endodermis coming into play and excluding the uptake of almost all of the amino acid solution fed to the plants. Amino acid supplementation does work to a minor extent – as some, but very few, of those root fed amino acids are absorbed by the plant. The exciting thing is that even that tiny amount that is absorbed positively affects the growth and development of plants.

So what did we learn?
Only simple sugars are absorbed by the plant root system. And only a very small amount of any amino acids supplied will ever be taken up by your plant’s root system. So what does that mean? Are carboyhydrate and amino acid producs a waste of your time? No – not exactly. Even when a small amount of amino acids are absorbed by the plant, we can get some positive effects. The simple sugars in your carbohydrate products do get absorbed. Others form a good source of food for beneficial bacteria in your root zone. So there are some benefits from using these types of products – just probably not to the degree that some of us may have hoped.
Feeding your plants carbohydrate and amino supplements is not a waste of your time or money – in fact many of those simple and complex carbohydrates serve as food for the friendly bacteria and fungi in your root zone. But don’t forget that your plant’s roots constantly exude simple and complex, carbohydrates, amino acids and proteins into the rhizospere and that those exudates serve as food and growth promoting compounds for many of the beneficial bacteria, fungi and micro organisms present in your plant’s rhizoshpere.
Root exudates are commonly divided into two classes. Low-molecular weight compounds – such as amino acids, organic acids, sugars, and other secondary metabolites and high molecular weight exudates – such as mucilage (polysaccharides or complex carbs) and proteins. The rhizospheric bacteria and fungi return the favor, in a symbiotic relationship, by breaking down complex products in the rhizosphere into ionic forms the plant can absorb as well as excreting protein and secondary signalling molecules of their own that benefit the plant by increasing its rate of growth and development.
In fact, much or all of the apparent success of carbohydrate and amino acids products are due to this inadvertent power feeding of your root zone friendlies and the symbiotic benefits they return to your plants.

The Future of Carbohydrate and Amino Acids?
Biochemists and plant researchers around the world are conducting research into methods of delivering carbohydrates and or amino acids directly into the plant in large or precisely controlled amounts. We are conducting research on developing radical new delivery methods for compounds that are otherwise impossible to deliver to plants in a controlled or effective manner. Techniques such as bio and nano encapsulation technologies are currently being pursued and developed – the promise of these techniques is huge. They could allow things like complex carbohydrates and amino acids to be delivered to your plants as they need them.
 
jyip

jyip

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Bud S,
Hmmn, it's either that white widow I smoked or the super detailed info,,, i had noticed that before, that the labels on both protein powder supplements for body builders and that also plant fertilzers had alot of common ingredients like the aminos and much others 2


Offtrack BUt ..anybody wanna recommend a nice indoor soil such as Foxfarm Ocean Forest? or something like that..or towards the appropiate section in which forum? thx
 
Bud Spleefman

Bud Spleefman

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Bud S,
Hmmn, it's either that white widow I smoked or the super detailed info,,, i had noticed that before, that the labels on both protein powder supplements for body builders and that also plant fertilzers had alot of common ingredients like the aminos and much others 2


Offtrack BUt ..anybody wanna recommend a nice indoor soil such as Foxfarm Ocean Forest? or something like that..or towards the appropiate section in which forum? thx

I know this is the coco forum, but here's Moonshine's Soil Mix:

1 bag of FoxFarm ocean soil (light blue bag)
1 bag of FoxFarm light warrior (dark blue bag)
1 bag of FoxFarm potting mix (red bag)
 
vonwolfen

vonwolfen

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Flushing with carbs(molasses, or a carb sup like sweet) gives the plants (some)energy, and helps with stress during the flushing stage. The plants still need a source of energy during flushing since they are still "growing"(adding bulk to their flowers, and continuing kreb cycle, and photosynthesis) even at the end of their life cycle. They dont know they are about to be chopped. Hopefully.
 
I

ibTheMan

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Yah use'n molasses while flushn is good, it also feeds the liven stuff in the Medium.
 
Tardbuster

Tardbuster

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Plants roots don't absorb sugar, so why are you flushing with it? The only thing sugar does is feed beneficial bacteria.

BUMP.

This myth needs to die. I'll kill it single handed if I have to!

Cannabis absorbs simple sugars through the roots! You can readily detect half the shit dumped into a pot by gullible growtards. This isnt imaginary big mike dutch bastard science. Its reality.

FEEDING BUDS SUGAR IS SOAKING YOUR BUDS IN SUGAR. Nothing more. If you even have microbial they get their sugars from the soil and photosynthesis. The plant-soil connection makes everything Monsanto tries to sell you in a bottle (when your soil is on par that is) .

Ive seen it, Ive smelled it, tasted it. Ive threatened nute companies into admitting it. Botanicare puts it best:

"The natural esters in Sweet are easily absorbed by the plant, but are not broken down further once deposited within the plant tissue. This means that as new flowers develop they will contain small amounts of these natural esters which contribute to the overall flavor and aroma of the finished product."

I can seperate BudCandy tainted buds from Sweetraw tainted buds with 100% accuracy, by smell alone.

Adding bottled plant esters (from scrap sources such as rinds and peels) to the mix of simple sugars, you notice all the colors separate too. A contaminant so heavy it changes the color of the buds overnight!

Why do I care so much that growers are sandbagging their bud with sugar weight? Respiratory issues. I vape to keep my lungs clean. Good clean bud opens my breathing up. Smoking sugar bud sends me to the ER with a nice coat of burnt sugar on the lungs. Any bud that makes you wheeze is not medicine, let alone safe to smoke!
 
Maxresdefault 2
A

Amsterdamer

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ive just injected my plant with 10ml x 10% solution of dextrose. lets see what will happen. stem is empty inside and injection was very easy.
 
A

Amsterdamer

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ive don an experiment at home . i have cut a bit of plant and put some honey in a water and i had other plant without it only water. the one with suger was doing so much better.
 
P

Pimples

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All of your additives except silica are best delivered by foliar spray. Yes..if your environment is on point you can spray buds. Every one says its a no no but they are nuts or have had bad pm problems and botrytis issues in there past grows. Your kelp/fulvic/ soy hydrolyates are best used in a weekly foliar in early (young rooted cuttings love it)..mid and later veg and early flower. Makes for super bushy and shorter plants. Also shuttle's in (chelates) calcium, magnesium and iron big time. These foliars promote massive roots in veg and early bloom set in early flower as well. Towards middle flower you can foliar spray cane sugar molasses (basically what your after its triacontinol content) for a super dense more frosty bud. Your milaeage may vary but its suposed to make the plant think its under attack by disease or bugs. And in response it produces more glandular trichome production..dense flowers and earlier ripening as a result. You can use molasses in the root zone but only if you have microbes in the substrate to eat it. All of your "bio-stimulant" additives (kelp, fulvic, soy hydrolysate, triacontinol, chitosan oligosaccaride) are way more effective as a foliar spray and with a yucca saponin as a wetting agent/carrier. Keep silica in the tanks along with the base nutrient.
 
K

kirkydman

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ive don an experiment at home . i have cut a bit of plant and put some honey in a water and i had other plant without it only water. the one with suger was doing so much better.
How did you get on with that?
 
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