Flushing is a bad practice based on flawed science.

[Herb Forester]

No way noob, we relativists here on this forum prefer our science served over a heaping bed of woo and pseudo salad. Get with the program Mr. 78 posts :badboy::fire::shockedninja:

 

[ink]

i like to add organic feed to my rez last to weeks to strip the nitrate and get a fade in the plant
this is for hydro though.

i used to use VitaSol many moons ago but know i use something completely different

 

[Seamaiden]

He's yanking your chain.

 

[jumpincactus]

No way noob, we relativists here on this forum prefer our science served over a heaping bed of woo and pseudo salad. Get with the program Mr. 78 posts :badboy::fire::shockedninja:

LOL go get em Herb

 

[jumpincactus]

He's yanking your chain.

And @Seamaiden it would appear a "chain" easily yanked......... LOL :)

 

[ThaDurb707]

I've smoked flowers that were not flushed... Always tasted like crap, burnt black, had to relight, even had some spark n pop(from high levels of metal in nutes-magnesium?) Flushed flowers have never done this(my product is all I can really speak for)
You try to confuse... But my mind is sharp like bowling ball!

 

[ink]

nitrate, mg, i need a fade and return flood at the level i want, giving me what i am looking for.
anybody who say no need chattting, fluff ahahah

or there taste buds dont work

 

[ken dog]

Thing is, if you keep your EC low enough, I can see where the no-flush crowd is coming from.

I'm not sure if plants need as many nutrients as many people think.:)

 

[ThaDurb707]

As for the chlorophyll... Anyone ever take some undernugs that barely got any light, almost no green in em, throw em in a dark spot to dry fast as you can and smoke that? Best ever! I tried this a few times as I noticed those hella light colored buds turn darker green right before my eyes while trimming. Got some that were almost white when done and tasted just like the scissor hash I got from trimming.

 

[Seamaiden]

Thing is, if you keep your EC low enough, I can see where the no-flush crowd is coming from.

I'm not sure if plants need as many nutrients as many people think.:)

This. :) The pebble has been snatched!

 

[The Humanure]

Can any one helpful assist me?

300 gallon pots.
Fed GH flora all year.

1. They got food yesterday 700 ppm.
2. Flushed with Clearx followed by molasses until runoff.
3. They never got 0-50-30 so no bad chems for the most part.
4. I want to harvest saturday. (Food on the 10th, flushed 11th, harvest tops on the 15th)
5. It will be a rain soaked harvest into Twister trimmers.

Will that be a solid flush for no chem flavors?

 

[OldPine]

What an incredible read. I read every single comment for 24 pages. This is my very first post to this site. I'm blown away by the wealth of knowledge being passed around, and I honestly think the debate is a healthy thing. I truly appreciate that there are so many of you extremely experienced farmers who take the time to share your hard earned secrets, successes, and failures. Thank you all.

I do want to compliment the OP @YarraSparra for opening the topic...all the way back in 2014! Boy does this topic have legs (even if some substantial deviations happened along the way)!

I have to say that I'm going to have to join the other fence-sitters on this issue. Perhaps it's due to my lack of years of experience. Perhaps it's because so many (seemingly) valid points have been made on both sides.

@YarraSparra, I read your post and immediately thought "great, so no flush (or deprivation/reduction of nutrients as it may be) whatsoever for me, ever again" but then I've also clearly understood the opposing position. I'd love to hear your voice back on this topic in further defense of your original posting, but maybe you've run out of steam for the debate. Fair enough play, if so.

I'd like to ask a further question of this forum. A lot of this thread has been a back and forth specifically about nutrients and how a flush (or reduction in nutrient levels...as I think this is what is actually being discussed here...not a flush to remove unwanted salts from media) might or might not improve smoke and make for a safer experience. What are the thoughts of the forum for other additives that may, for example, be added to a DWC? Take Hydroguard or SM-90. If something like one or both of these are added to a DWC and not properly flushed, what would be the outcome? Safety concerns or just less appealing smell, taste, etc.?

I've also noted that @YarraSparra has another post regarding curing and the positives of a faster cure. Perhaps my next question is better suited for that thread, but since it was mentioned here by @jumpincactus, I'll go ahead and ask...

Have you (0r anyone else here) seen or tried the 58% RH Bovedas? I just ordered some and they should be here tomorrow. It seems this has replaced their 54% packs that apparently never caught on since they were too low?

Related to the two-way membrane possibly poaching terpenes, would it be better to dry further than ideal (below 58%) and then use the Boveda to bring the RH back up? This way, it's primary function is to add moisture rather than remove it. Would this then stop the poaching of smells?

It seems Boveda suggests to dry a little past prime and then use Boveda to raise RH, but they mention this is best practice simply because it's easier to tell when the Boveda has run it's course when the primary function is to add moisture (http://www.bovedainc.com/solutions/herbal/curing-with-boveda/). In this case, the Boveda pack turns into a hard wafer, whereas when it's primary function is to remove moisture, the Boveda swells but never gets hard and it's difficult to know if it needs to be replaced. The website, however, says nothing about the robbing of smells (right, why would they purposefully out themselves if this really is the case!).

Just wondering what your (and the forum's) thoughts might be.

Sorry for the two unrelated questions.

 

[jumpincactus]

What an incredible read. I read every single comment for 24 pages. This is my very first post to this site. I'm blown away by the wealth of knowledge being passed around, and I honestly think the debate is a healthy thing. I truly appreciate that there are so many of you extremely experienced farmers who take the time to share your hard earned secrets, successes, and failures. Thank you all.

I do want to compliment the OP @YarraSparra for opening the topic...all the way back in 2014! Boy does this topic have legs (even if some substantial deviations happened along the way)!

I have to say that I'm going to have to join the other fence-sitters on this issue. Perhaps it's due to my lack of years of experience. Perhaps it's because so many (seemingly) valid points have been made on both sides.

@YarraSparra, I read your post and immediately thought "great, so no flush (or deprivation/reduction of nutrients as it may be) whatsoever for me, ever again" but then I've also clearly understood the opposing position. I'd love to hear your voice back on this topic in further defense of your original posting, but maybe you've run out of steam for the debate. Fair enough play, if so.

I'd like to ask a further question of this forum. A lot of this thread has been a back and forth specifically about nutrients and how a flush (or reduction in nutrient levels...as I think this is what is actually being discussed here...not a flush to remove unwanted salts from media) might or might not improve smoke and make for a safer experience. What are the thoughts of the forum for other additives that may, for example, be added to a DWC? Take Hydroguard or SM-90. If something like one or both of these are added to a DWC and not properly flushed, what would be the outcome? Safety concerns or just less appealing smell, taste, etc.?

I've also noted that @YarraSparra has another post regarding curing and the positives of a faster cure. Perhaps my next question is better suited for that thread, but since it was mentioned here by @jumpincactus, I'll go ahead and ask...

Have you (0r anyone else here) seen or tried the 58% RH Bovedas? I just ordered some and they should be here tomorrow. It seems this has replaced their 54% packs that apparently never caught on since they were too low?

Related to the two-way membrane possibly poaching terpenes, would it be better to dry further than ideal (below 58%) and then use the Boveda to bring the RH back up? This way, it's primary function is to add moisture rather than remove it. Would this then stop the poaching of smells?

It seems Boveda suggests to dry a little past prime and then use Boveda to raise RH, but they mention this is best practice simply because it's easier to tell when the Boveda has run it's course when the primary function is to add moisture (http://www.bovedainc.com/solutions/herbal/curing-with-boveda/). In this case, the Boveda pack turns into a hard wafer, whereas when it's primary function is to remove moisture, the Boveda swells but never gets hard and it's difficult to know if it needs to be replaced. The website, however, says nothing about the robbing of smells (right, why would they purposefully out themselves if this really is the case!).

Just wondering what your (and the forum's) thoughts might be.

Sorry for the two unrelated questions.

Welcome to the Farm!!! Nice post BTW. Good to see this thread is still kicking. Yes, you are correct ,there is a veritable cornucopia of cannabis growing information in this site.

I am still up in the air over flushing. Agreed, I think it is a valid technique when salts have built up and it's a good practice to free the rhizosphere from concentrated salt build up. So see that's the thing, shouldn't we look at "flushing as a 2 fold thing.? 1 for removing excess salts from the rootzone, which BTW is related to the plants overall health and has nothing to do with flavinoids, terpene profiles, or harshness in the smoke. Genetics is the primary source of the aforementioned qualities.

The second form of flushing is to allegedly increase smokability and taste among other things for the last 2 weeks is based on much "anecdotal" data and to date I have yet to find any scholarly peer reviewed studies that would indicate a flush during the last 2 weeks of flower being required or necessary. My thoughts are and always will be, until such time someone can show me the science to prove this theory, why would we want to limit the nutrients levels to almost nil during one of the most important phases on the plants growth.

I think this whole flushing thing came to be from the indoor hydro guys because as we all know hydro is a technique that typically uses synthetic based salts to provide nutrients to the root zone. I cannot see where someone using well cultured "living soil" or outdoor organic growers would need to flush at all. Again, I hold fast to this belief until someone can show me the proof otherwise. Without backup, all of the stoner myths remain just that myths. I grow in living soil and do not flush ever. I dont get excessive salt buildup and I want my gurls well fed right up until chop. And I have never had anyone complain that my meds tasted, smelled, or smoked harsh.

Thanks again for resurrecting this post. :D Now if you really wanna get me stoked and all fired up resurrect the "Terpinoid" thread LOL

 

[OldPine]

The second form of flushing is to allegedly increase smokability and taste among other things for the last 2 weeks is based on much "anecdotal" data and to date I have yet to find any scholarly peer reviewed studies that would indicate a flush during the last 2 weeks of flower being required or necessary. My thoughts are and always will be, until such time someone can show me the science to prove this theory, why would we want to limit the nutrients levels to almost nil during one of the most important phases on the plants growth.

I completely agree that these are two completely different things. In fact, it looks like (from an outsider's perspective coming in late and reading the post all the way through) that a lot of the disagreement was due to people arguing about two different things. I do believe that @YarraSparra intended to have a conversation about the latter - the final "flush" as it were.

I also agree that starving the plant at this stage doesn't make sense. I've always been one who reduces levels approaching harvest. I'll continue to do the same.

What about other additives in a DWC reservoir though? Should we take care to ensure things like SM-90 are removed in the final weeks? Or does this just stay in the root zone and not impact flavor, safety, etc?

Also - did you happen to notice my comment regarding the 58% RH Boveda packs? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks for the warm welcome to the community!

OldPine

 

[jumpincactus]

Speaking to the Boveda paks I just ordered the 58's I am using up my existing stock of the 62's currently. Since they are a 2 way membrane it makes sense that if the erb is dried to below the % of the pak and used to add moisture only, it seems it would limit the "poaching" of terps. I will give this a try to see if it indeed works better with my next harvest.

On your question concerning things added to the rez such as sm90 in my mind I would think any additive if it is capable of being taken up into the plant via the rootzone the minerals or compounds would become incorporated into the plants tissues and once incorporated how then would flushing strip it back out.??? I harken to the old saying "you are what you eat" So to this end, I'm not convinced that flushing does any good at all. Running plain water thru the system cannot remove things already built into the plants tissues. Just my .2 cents

 

[OldPine]

Excellent! I agree completely.

I'll also report back on the 58% packs. I feel like this will put me right where I want to be.

Thanks, by the way, for the likes!

 

[mojavegreen]

Speaking to the Boveda paks I just ordered the 58's I am using up my existing stock of the 62's currently. Since they are a 2 way membrane it makes sense that if the erb is dried to below the % of the pak and used to add moisture only, it seems it would limit the "poaching" of terps. I will give this a try to see if it indeed works better with my next harvest.

On your question concerning things added to the rez such as sm90 in my mind I would think any additive if it is capable of being taken up into the plant via the rootzone the minerals or compounds would become incorporated into the plants tissues and once incorporated how then would flushing strip it back out.??? I harken to the old saying "you are what you eat" So to this end, I'm not convinced that flushing does any good at all. Running plain water thru the system cannot remove things already built into the plants tissues. Just my .2 cents

Concur

 

[420VT]

Thing is, if you keep your EC low enough, I can see where the no-flush crowd is coming from.

I'm not sure if plants need as many nutrients as many people think.:)

I've never understood why people see the need to maintain PPM's on the hairy edge of nute burn. More is not better. Learn to read your plants. Absent deficiencies, enough is enough. If you poison your grow with high phosphorous "boosters" in flower, then a flush is likely beneficial. What is even more beneficial, is not blasting them with excessive phosphorous in the first place. Reasonable nutes through flower & flush is unnecessary.

 

[jumpincactus]

I've never understood why people see the need to maintain PPM's on the hairy edge of nute burn. More is not better. Learn to read your plants. Absent deficiencies, enough is enough. If you poison your grow with high phosphorous "boosters" in flower, then a flush is likely beneficial. What is even more beneficial, is not blasting them with excessive phosphorous in the first place. Reasonable nutes through flower & flush is unnecessary.

To add, if you are growing in a well balanced dialed in living soil grow, there is minimal need for other inputs and certainly no need for a flush. Besides flushing can only partly remove the mobile nutes. The immobile nutes stay fixed in the plant tissue. making for a harsh smoke.

To me over fertilization is like a human doping on roids....... all show and no go...... Let the soil do its job!!!! Cant believe how many peeps will dump xy& z in their soil without even knowing what nutes are already there. Soil test anyone???

 

[RippedTorn]

Here's how you flush natural pot: You harvest after a dark period while the nutrients are below ground. I harvested at day once and my bud tasted like dirt.. Not the sugary good kind. Like my medium. Fermentation was weak and bud was unsmokable for 4 months til the bacteria inside the bud realized it was supposed to be curing my bud sugars into alcohols, not eating nutes. Curing has nothing to do with quelling chlorophyll when you're organic. Its fermentation.

Here's how you flush synthetics: you cant. Trace amounts are trace amounts.. Youve picked a threshold. Maybe you cant taste 1500 ppm but average people can. Maybe average people can't taste lab chemicals ran at at 500ppm til harvest. But I know plenty of normal assed people who can. The higher your nutes the lower your terps and vice versa. Strip away the natural flavor and you can detect nutes at much lower concentration. You gotta have something to compare to. If you've never smoked natural bud, you don't understand. Curing has nothing to do with fermentation when your synthetic. Its quelling chlorophyll and expiring half life's of bottled inputs.



How many growers vaporize? How many of them vaporizer with autistic life growers (not career, not hobby)?

How many growers can even tell a lemon from a lime? I'd say 1% Just watch how the unflushers talk about weed flavor.. They use generic terms like sweet and earthy. I've never heard a synthetic grower talk about aliens coming down and pissing on some blueberries that a skunk ate and pissed out his ass into a jug of kerosene