Full Spectrum Led' S Or Cob's

[Stark]

Hi, new to the community and forums in general, got into the field about 6 months ago, and since have been playing around with LED setups since, my current HPS's run about 1K a month in energy bills. So far i got KindLED, KingLED and a bunch of other under 500$ lights, KindLED 1000W is so far the best light, at $1800 though its probably the most expensive, and even though the controls and functions are very nice, i didint think it was worth the $1200 that one can save, long story short, got Gigahertz Optics Spectral light meter, and the claims DID NOT add up, so i started experimenting with building my own lights, (im going for beam bars) 25/50/100W Leds so one beam should be around 10KW of light, dimmable of course, and I also ordered some lenses to direct the edge diodes toward the center. Im going 320-490 for the Veg and 580-830 for Flower, adding extra UV and IR on the side of the setup made a pretty good difference compared to the control. Will report progress after more parts come. Oh, and for cooling, im using watercooling on both sides, works like a dream

 

[Dan789]

Hi, new to the community and forums in general, got into the field about 6 months ago, and since have been playing around with LED setups since, my current HPS's run about 1K a month in energy bills. So far i got KindLED, KingLED and a bunch of other under 500$ lights, KindLED 1000W is so far the best light, at $1800 though its probably the most expensive, and even though the controls and functions are very nice, i didint think it was worth the $1200 that one can save, long story short, got Gigahertz Optics Spectral light meter, and the claims DID NOT add up, so i started experimenting with building my own lights, (im going for beam bars) 25/50/100W Leds so one beam should be around 10KW of light, dimmable of course, and I also ordered some lenses to direct the edge diodes toward the center. Im going 320-490 for the Veg and 580-830 for Flower, adding extra UV and IR on the side of the setup made a pretty good difference compared to the control. Will report progress after more parts come. Oh, and for cooling, im using watercooling on both sides, works like a dream

Pictures or it’s like it never happened, btw welcome.

 

[DGP]

Yeah right and the color you are seeing is the light for my c02 medium you shouldnt talk about what you dont know

I used to work in the solid state LED lighting industry. Our company used to design custom COBs at the chip level. We produced lighting systems that could produce 8,000 watts of light (not equivalent light but 8KW from the wall). I have been an optical engineer. "Full Spectrum" is White light just as the sun appears to light things around us most of the day (yeah a little redder at sunrise and sunset). White light contains fairly equal levels of most colors and when you combine most colors together you get white. When have you ever gone outside and seen that funky pink or even Blurple outside in the Summer or any other season? The answer is never.

Cannabis still grows better and produces more outside in the sun than it does in any indoor grow. The sun just never shines blue and red only, never.

So, until we understand all the true effects of light on plants, I am staying with the philosophy of using light that is as equivalent as the sun (white) as we can strive for. If plants needed just blue and red then the system wouldn't waste so much energy producing all those other colors if there were no purpose. These pink lights would then by far outproduce more white balanced light and we would all be using them and writing and posting pictures showing that reality. Pink and blurple lights will grow plants but its not optimum.

LEDs are rated in CRI (color rendition Index) the lights you are talking about have a CRI of about 39 and an HPS about the same where an good quality of COB is at least 80 but more and more they are coming out with 90, 95 and 97. That means it is 95 % as accurate in color as the sun or as compared to a certain standard tungsten light that appears natural. I use 90 CRI LEDs myself and am lovin the results. Just look up some physics material on the web in regards to the color of sunlight.

"Full Spectrum" is a term the cheapo light manufacturers co-opted to sell lighting. However, I guess that depends on what one defines as "full spectrum".


Dee

 

[Stark]

have been an optical engineer.

Dee

Would you agree that the "optimal" Kelvin Temp would be 4250? As an "all rounder" start to finish option

 

[DGP]

Would you agree that the "optimal" Kelvin Temp would be 4250? As an "all rounder" start to finish option

Not necessarily because veg cycle is a lot less critical than flower. Plants will veg easily under any light and use a lot less light in general so in my opinion red shifted is better overall. In other words I would opt for ideal lighting in flower and not worry about the light being a little warm for veg. 3500K is my choice and I grow all the way through at 3500. Opinions vary of course.

Of course if you have a dedicated veg area and separate lighting systems then great go blueish in the veg tent and redder in the flower. maybe even 2700 in the flower room and 4000 or higher in the veg tent.

Dee

 

[Stark]

Thats understandable, veg should be cool 4-8K, but i was asking as an alternative, by no means it would be as ideal as running 2100-2500-2700 for flower and 4000/6000/8000 for veg, but 4250 should be a good start-to-finish temp, i guess that was my inquiry

 

[DGP]

I would recommend 3500 if you want to go start to finish.

De

 

[DGP]

BTW sunrise is ~2700K and midday is 5500. I think what we are trying to do is replicate an average Fall day (for flower) because the color is slightly redder in Fall but in the end it is an average. The ideal way would be to have the light source in an indoor grow change color temperature throughout the day mimicking the sun exactly. Could be done with LED technology now.

The color of daylight is highly dependent on cloud cover, smoke or particulate levels as well as time of day.

3500K is considered "Warm White" and ~4000 is considered "Cool White" but cooler as you move up. You often see these terms with regards to indoor space lighting. People prefer warmer light typically and overall the sun generally seems slightly yellow to our eyes. This is due to a back-scattering effect but the light from the sun is very, very "white".

We are photoperiodic in a way too. We want the relaxing color of early morning or early evening and not the midday when it is hotter and we are working hard to make a living. The reddish light of sunset and the outdoor fire in the evening prepares us for sleep. The reason there is so much insomnia is we stare at blueish colored screens on computers phones and tv's late at night and it tells us to wake up. Hey we are a lot like plants:). Damn it, its 10 pm here and I shouldn't be staring at the computer.

Dee

 

[Jamescoleman]

I would recommend 3500 if you want to go start to finish.

De

I have been using a combo of 3000 and 3500 together but i agree 3500 is pretty optimal for start to finish they make cheap meters to tell you if your light is enough to low or to high. The trick to me is knowing how many watts verses the square footage of foliage .

 

[budfarmer420]

Agree 3000K is great for LED for flower.

 

[Snoleperd]

Full speck decient led lights

 

[scubascrog]

Agree 3000K is great for LED for flower.

Yeah I am mixing 6 3000k with 6 3500k cobs and setting them around a 350W from the wall platinum... I will stagger my cobs on and off an hour or 2 before and after my time on / off to simulate sunrise.

 

[Homesteader]

COBs are typically full spectrum which is why they look white. I have never heard of a single color COB. Individual diodes are the way to go if you can afford it IMO but COBs are a safe bet.

I heard about these citizens 450nm COB a few weeks after writing this and grabbed one. I figured I would go back and correct myself. Probably will use it in the future to test effects of blue light only.

 

[chillywilly]

Greetings,
Great thread... I'm currently using Super Grow SK450 model, 250w draw with an equivalent of 500 of HPS lighting. They run $860 for one...
this is some badass lights, USA made 4200k full spectrum...also I have Gosun 75w 3200k/2, and another one can't remember 3200k 100w here you go folks...here is TGA Dannyboy close trich shot and by mirror, lionheart x Mikado, Mikado, and Hawaiian indica......
Have fun!!

 

[DGP]

LEDs are about 35% more efficient at best (last time I went thru the numbers) and so it always perplexes me how a 250w led fixture can be equivalent to 500w. That's just not possible with current technology unless I am missing something. The LED lighting market really needs some standardized specifications, it's kinda like the wild west of lighting right now:(.

Dee

 

[chillywilly]

Oh, forgot have 2 20w red Led flood for Xtra red in flowering to augment...my first indoor grow, I went a 3200k MH, since the quality of resins increased not amount...but I thinking of getting a couple of blue LEDs to supplement uv...check the flood types...
Peace
cw

 

[chillywilly]

Equivalent, this unit is extremely efficient, no fans just find...these folks(led super grow.com or Google)
These guys top of the line. There are banks of white and red, blended makes equivalent in wattage
cw

 

[Schkronis]

Equivalent, this unit is extremely efficient, no fans just find...these folks(led super grow.com or Google)
These guys top of the line. There are banks of white and red, blended makes equivalent in wattage
cw

Got any numbers or may be what chips are used? This is redicilous price for this light... No way this 250watter gets even close to 400w SE HPS...

 

[chillywilly]

Results...

 

[DGP]

Equivalent, this unit is extremely efficient, no fans just find...these folks(led super grow.com or Google)
These guys top of the line. There are banks of white and red, blended makes equivalent in wattage
cw

If the best HID LAMPS are 50% efficient then how efficient do your leds need to be to make twice as much light? I used to be an led engineer and I am just saying nobody in the industry is capable of that, nobody. 100% efficiency?

No disrespect intended but there just aren't any Leds out there that can achieve 500w of equivalent light for 250 out of the wall.

This is why standards in the led market are needed. The specs don't even pass the giggle test.