Grow Journal - Almost Done With Veg - Help Wanted On Leaf Issues

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rukind

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Here are the general details.

Lights: 1x HPS AC 18-24" height + 1x DE MH 24-36" height 18-6 was 24/7
Temp: AC set at 70 and multiple oscillating fans
PH: 5.6-6.2 (ph pen just took a crap but drops look like between 5.5 and 6.0)
Medium: DWC w 970GPH air pump to 5x 5 gallon buckets insulated and about 95% light proof
Humidity: My meter broke but it seems average about 45% +/-5
Strains: THC Bomb, Amnesia, Amnesia Lemon, Moby Dick, Moby Dick CBD all from seed
Nutrients:
+AN Connoisseur bloom A+B half dosage or TDS 1100 = 400 at tap +700 nutes
+Silica Blast 1/4 strength
+Florablend 1/4 strength

The plants are growing very fast!
They are not problem free though. I have a few clues about why that is but I would like some second opinions. I've attached some photos.

I'm changing the res out every 7 days and putting fresh nutrients in starting on 11/12/17.

So it got a fresh res yesterday. I PH check and PPM check and add water every day to every bucket. Most of the problems seem to be clearing up after the res change but I'm curious if anybody can help diagnose specifically the cause.
Grow journal   almost done with veg   help wanted on leaf issues


Here you see browning of the veins and light yellowing in the leaves This actually seems to still be progressing

Grow journal   almost done with veg   help wanted on leaf issues 2

A somewhat similar look on this plant. New growth looks almost perfect old growth looks like deficiency of some sort. All of the early life leaves where warped and curled but it seems to have grown out of that.
Grow journal   almost done with veg   help wanted on leaf issues 3


This is a older fan leaf. Several of the older fan leaves on several of the plants look similar to this.
Grow journal   almost done with veg   help wanted on leaf issues 4

Here you can see overall health is fine and they obviously aren't close to dying but still these leaf issues seem too serious to progress to flower until rectified.
Grow journal   almost done with veg   help wanted on leaf issues 5

now these actually seem much better than yesterday. You can see the new growth is kind of twisted, wrinkled, growing slowly and the tips are bright neon yellow. Most of the leaf was going to that yellow color yesterday and the coloring is starting to turn more normal after the new batch of nutes.

Anyways I'm keeping this journal so I can more easily track problems but also for people to jump in and add their thoughts and opinions. Trying to make this a great grow. I will upload my spreadsheet for the nutes once flower cycle has begun.
 
Dunge

Dunge

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Take note of specific ghosted areas in a few leaves.
Spray with calcium chloride. (tomato end rot spray)
Should green up the yellow, if not too far gone.
This is a low risk fix, but might revel a lock out condition.
Good luck.
 
R

rukind

25
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Take note of specific ghosted areas in a few leaves.
Spray with calcium chloride. (tomato end rot spray)
Should green up the yellow, if not too far gone.
This is a low risk fix, but might revel a lock out condition.
Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. I can't buy anything right now but I will next week. I'm curious on what you advised me to do actually does. Sorry I like to know things in detail. OCD like that. I'm assuming it is checking for calcium lock out?

If it greens up does that mean that there is a calcium lockout at the root level?

I'm positive there is a ton of calcium in my water as I can see it building up on my faucets. Do you get calcium or any other lock out from having too much of a specific nute or just too high of EC in general? I feel like 1100PPM is high even though I'm using at half strength. Will be moving to RO water before flower as well next week so that should resolve some of the confusion about what is or is not in my water. Also I'm under the impression that if I want to feed at a certain strength I have to count the tap TDS as well as part of my nutrient solution, which makes sense to me, just because it isn't what we want doesn't mean it doesn't exist right?

Thanks in advance.
 
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rukind

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Another question for you. I've used lots of nutrients over the years and had failures and successes some products or their secret ingredients I feel like they work and there is some evidence to that.. Enzyme products, mycorrhizae products, triacontanol/alfalfa products, chitosan. They all seem like they at least could help and I do feel like I've noticed differences with and without them.

But what about Advanced nutrients why do they have multiple bloom boosters? Also Isn't big bud just 1-5-4? would it really be that much different if I just put in 0-10-10 at half strength so 0-5-5? Many of these products feel like not only are they snake oil they don't actually even claim to be anything other than 5 cents worth of NPK.

Anyways I will upload my planned flower schedule so that you can tear it apart and see what is jacked up or unnecessary about it. I'm basing it of AN grand master grow but I replaced all zyme products like voodoo, piranha, tarancula with a single product called pondzyme. I went through their entire product list and broke it down into raw materials basically but a few I'm not sure about/ not convinced it isn't complete BS snake oil so input would be helpful.
 
R

rukind

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Here is my grow chart. As you can see the nutrient calculation are all based off AN grow calculator at AN advised levels. As of right now I'm not in flower yet and the base nutrients I'm actually running at 34mL/bucket or roughly 8mL per gallon.

I have some additional side products I'm using right now but they are mostly just humic acids and organic stuff that probably don't do anything anyways.

Am I missing a secret ingredient or did I manage to recreate their $700 nutrient option for this grow with a $80 solution that will last a dozen grows? Is some of this just pure BS? I feel very suspicious that big bud or overdrive do absolutely anything other than raise P and K which is why I just listed their base nutes. I'm also not convinced that this PK boost is all that important. b-52 really feels like superthrive which from the propaganda on the bottle screams scam. Even if B vitamins are good for plants wouldn't a b vitamin that costs 10,000X less be just fine once dissolved?

The flush agent I believe to be BS also but I have a free bottle so I'm going to use it. I'm very skeptical of nutrient companies. They have a long history of being liars. Somebody once tried to sell me this black bottle of water for $30... label said 100% ionized water... I drank it to confirm it was just water then spit it out because the plastic bottle seemed like it was leeching out chemicals.. plastic smell inside and outside of bottle. point is I don't what what is bullshit but a lot of it definitely
Chart
is and this is the best chart I could come up with please offer tips I would love to hear from everybody
 
Enforcer

Enforcer

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Are you adjusting the ph after your res is all mixed up?
 
R

rukind

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Are you adjusting the ph after your res is all mixed up?
Oh yeah for sure twice a day at that. Ph is very stable at 6. I say 6 because that is what my drops say. My meter just broke yesterday and i cant order a replacement for a week so its loe tech for a while. Although ph perfect nutes supposedly dont need to be phed. Also supposed to be used with ro water and im not so i have had to adjust very slightly but not much.

Have an ro system comong in 10 days or so with the new meter. Its a very cheap ro so hopefully it lasts through the grow at least... I aim to buy a more legit one later for under the sink anyways.

Also i cant ppm this korning and it had dropped in every plant to about 800 so it is using nutes faster than water. Leads me to beliece not getting enough nutes. I doubled the dosage (+34ml a+b)/5gallon to 1300ppm total. Hopefully they respond eell. Im checking every couple hours. Been like 3 hours and nothing bad yet. My experience from past grows has been that if you have too much jutes your plants will start to tell you in a big way within an hour or two. Usually with tip burn. Anyways. That is my update for the day.

Oh other very interesting news. Got in touch with a chitosan expert and chitosan oligosaccharide is not the best to use hydroponically chitosan is. Chitosan needs to be disolved in a weak acid but he pointed me to a lowuid chitosan that is at least 75% off bud factor x. I might still make my own though. Also insect frass seems like a great product causing similar if not better results. basically chitosan works by tricking plants into thinking its being attacked by insects which creates a defense response which creates growth, or so goes the theory. There seems to be some evidence backing this logic. Go figure though, insect frass also causing the plants to think there is a bug infection. There is strong evidence that these reactions help prevent actaual infestations as well. I think i will be using frass and chitosan.

Dumping big bud and over drive for more generic pk boost maybe havent thought it through much.. Stuff is easy enough to make both and same price regardless.
 
Enforcer

Enforcer

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Ok, that’s what I thought. You’re very detail oriented like I am. Which means you’re going to have an issue with this, DO NOT adjust the ph on the ph perfect line. You’re messing up the additives, chelates, and surfactants they have engineered to “feed” the plant between 4.0 and 8.0. If your ph is anywhere in that range, your good, don’t mess with it. Call the support number and they can explain it better than I can. But I was doing the same thing, and got similar leaf problems. I haven’t adjusted my ph in weeks, and they are doing better. I will probably use a different base nute next time. The ph perfect stuff seems to be made for complete noobs, who’s only piece of kit are measuring spoons from the kitchen.
 
R

rukind

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Ok, that’s what I thought. You’re very detail oriented like I am. Which means you’re going to have an issue with this, DO NOT adjust the ph on the ph perfect line. You’re messing up the additives, chelates, and surfactants they have engineered to “feed” the plant between 4.0 and 8.0. If your ph is anywhere in that range, your good, don’t mess with it. Call the support number and they can explain it better than I can. But I was doing the same thing, and got similar leaf problems. I haven’t adjusted my ph in weeks, and they are doing better. I will probably use a different base nute next time. The ph perfect stuff seems to be made for complete noobs, who’s only piece of kit are measuring spoons from the kitchen.

Interesting. I haven't actually had to adjust the PH much and only on two of the plants at all. I think my hard water will probably make their ph perfect tech not work quite right but that will be fixed on the next week after I get my RO system. The leaf problems actually all were caused under GH 3 part. Also I think the silica blast is too much for the ph buffer they have in it. silca blast has a really high ph.

Thanks for your input. Its always good to have a second pair of eyes on it.
 
Enforcer

Enforcer

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Interesting. I haven't actually had to adjust the PH much and only on two of the plants at all. I think my hard water will probably make their ph perfect tech not work quite right but that will be fixed on the next week after I get my RO system. The leaf problems actually all were caused under GH 3 part. Also I think the silica blast is too much for the ph buffer they have in it. silca blast has a really high ph.

Thanks for your input. Its always good to have a second pair of eyes on it.
GH huh, haven’t used thier nutes yet. So I can’t really comment there. RO water will definitely help. I know it’s a strong base, but I don’t think the silicate effects the ph perfect at all. I’ve mixed up a res with it and one without, both had a ph of 6.6 when I was done. Hope you get it sorted.
 
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rukind

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It will work out. I'll have a meter soon and RO soon my tap is 400-500 that really throws off dwc. flora nova was my first grow I think that might actually be the best nutes I've ever used.
 
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rukind

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Ok so a couple days ago I upped the nutrients from half strength to full strength or about 1350 PPM (450 at tap)

All issues are resolved already.

I have changed my flower chart around a bit and almost ready to print out customized ones for each plant. The main changes I'm made is I've ditched making my own NPKs to replace big bud and overdrive. Mostly because I found an even cheaper way. In the end making your own NPK is the cheapest but right now I'm concerned about actual dollars out. So I've replace overdrive with Kool Bloom because the NPK is nearly the same and I already had a bottle bid enough for the grow. Big bud will just be replaced with connoisseur B as the NPK is nearly the same again.

Also found a liquid chitosan product for half the price for twice as much as twice the strength so about 8X cheaper... called tidal vision. Although I've also come to the conclusion based off what I've read that insect frass is likely just as effective if not more so and its a lot cheaper. Right now I have both on the list because they both seem like great products but they also seem somewhat redundant. So I might axe one or the other.

RO system is picked out its cheap so hopefully it will last the entire grow. Going to order everything monday so should be able to start flower on thursday.
Nutrient chart
 
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rukind

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FIRST DAY OF FLOWER

Did first flower res yesterday first 12 hours of night ends at 9PM today. So I'm going to say first day of flower is 11/27/17.

I used RO water and maybe 5PPM of city water to add in a little calcium and magnesium. checked on them during lights off and they are having some issues already. Which really shouldn't be the case considering everything is the same as it was except I added a little MKP and RO water instead. As of right now my theory is that the plants want more nutrients nitrogen in particularly I believe as I'm getting a bit of yellowing that has the light green brown color that quickly proceeds to burnt brown. So hopefully the added nutrients will bring them into a better place. I will check on them every couple hours until I certain I've resolves this. Basically I brought the TDS (ec x 500) up to 1150. I'm assuming it was getting some NPK from the tap water since it tested at 500PPM.

A note on PH. I tested the PH of all buckets after mixing and it read 5 on drop test but drop test doesn't have a 5.5 just 6 and 6.5 So I decided to let it rest I normally aim for 6. I tested this morning and all are at 6 so it seems to be correctly PHed.

Its been a few years since I last grew in DWC and I have to say I can't remember being low on nutrients causing such a problem. I guess with a coco medium you have a much more forgiving range of tolerable nutrient levels. I recall feeding plants at nearly 2000 PPM years back though with floranova which I'm starting to think is my favorite nutrient. I might keep giving AN a chance with its base though.
 
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rukind

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When I was growing in DWC before I used a small homemade water chiller that I wasn't sure was doing anything. I decided to check my water temps today and they are the same as the ambient air 73F I know some people say that is far to high so what I decided is that I'll lower the temps during the night periods to 65F the buckets are insulated a little so I assume the temp will level out some place below 70F which should be perfect.

I have a 25,000 BTU AC in there so it is no problem at all. I sized it like that so I can run 4 lights during the summer in this room (garage).
 
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rukind

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During the past week I have topped all of the plants several times except the THCB it has been too short it has actually been raised on a higher block to level out the canopy. I expect the canopy to require a lot of work to keep it even or at least reasonably even, being that we have 5 different strains
 
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rukind

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FLOWER UPDATE:

immediately after going into flower the plants started showing issues. They appeared similar to nutrient deficiency from before so I upped the PPM to about 1200 and that is with RO. Most of the plants seemed to respond well to that and I believe I was right because the next morning the PPM had dropped in all most of them by about 300PPM. So that is nice. I believe they can take more actually. I think they aren't getting enough nitrogen frankly AN does not have enough N in flower. I believe it is a myth that they don't need N in flower.

THC Bomb is the exception for some reason this plant seems like its dancing between nutrient deficiency and to High of nutrients. This plant was heavily trimmed a day or so before flower started. My hope is that the plant was just stress from that. Last time I looked it had started to reach up with its leaves instead of drooping downward but now what looks to me like classic nute burn on the tips. Its clearly not overwhelming but it looks like its there.
 
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rukind

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I haven't done a flush yet, probably going to skip it for now if not for another few weeks. The AN really does keep the PH at 5.8 I got a new meter and it read dead on and that is after adding a lot of different products. . Although they drink almost the entire bucket of water in 2 days. I have to fill them up daily. I'm not going to use insect frass listed above as it is fairly redundant with chitosan.

I found the liquid chitosan for $1.5 per 150ml at 1% solution which is approximately 3X as strong as bud factor x. so basically $3 for a 1 liter bottle of bud factor x.

I did find some left over organic boost fertilizer with bat guano chitine and crab meal and a bunch of other nasty smelling stuff. I added a small amount to each bucket because why not.

They are about 6ft tall right now counting the bucket and cinder blocks. I'm going to tie some more of the tall branches down to even out the canopy tonight when the lights come on.

The plants are typically eating about 25% of their nutes daily so they are topped off daily to about 1100 PPM ECx400 so 2.75 EC

the leaves are really dark which is something that I like to see but not all plats do that. I think they are happy at 1100 I might try 1250 tonight to see how they react though.
 
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rukind

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Plants have been doing good. Moby dick experienced a small shock. somehow one night I dosed the nutes up to 1800 and ph was really low like 4 also. The leaves turned dark green and there was a small amount of tip burn as well as maybe 10 leaves that were damaged significantly. Luckily it was caught in time. The damaged leaves were removed and other than being very dark it looks healthy. It isn't growing as fast as the others but I've grown moby dick before and its a slow growing plant. 20 weeks sometimes. It does get very dark leaves as well.

running nutes at 1000ppm. The plants seem happy with that. out of AN connoisseur and PH is much more difficult to track but fairly stable. Also the plants seem happy in a much wider range of PPM AN seems like it had to be 1100-1250 generic seems happy in 800-1500. No idea why or if that is actually happening even.

chitosan is running in the buckets. I have flushed several of the buckets since last update but only do so if I feel a need. If i see a nute issue on the leaves or its its just been a while. I have started to install proper drains on them as the old way was not working with the roots in the way. Just need to pick up some more clear hose.

THCB is exploding in white hairs right now and seems quite happy. The plants are crowding a bit but THCB should be done about half way through the others so it will give them a little extra space for the end of flower.

have several clones going in a bucket right now I'm going to attempt to fem some seeds probably with aspirin method but if that fails I will redo with colloidal silver.
 
P

PharmHand

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Here are the general details.

Lights: 1x HPS AC 18-24" height + 1x DE MH 24-36" height 18-6 was 24/7
Temp: AC set at 70 and multiple oscillating fans
PH: 5.6-6.2 (ph pen just took a crap but drops look like between 5.5 and 6.0)
Medium: DWC w 970GPH air pump to 5x 5 gallon buckets insulated and about 95% light proof
Humidity: My meter broke but it seems average about 45% +/-5
Strains: THC Bomb, Amnesia, Amnesia Lemon, Moby Dick, Moby Dick CBD all from seed
Nutrients:
+AN Connoisseur bloom A+B half dosage or TDS 1100 = 400 at tap +700 nutes
+Silica Blast 1/4 strength
+Florablend 1/4 strength

The plants are growing very fast!
They are not problem free though. I have a few clues about why that is but I would like some second opinions. I've attached some photos.

I'm changing the res out every 7 days and putting fresh nutrients in starting on 11/12/17.

So it got a fresh res yesterday. I PH check and PPM check and add water every day to every bucket. Most of the problems seem to be clearing up after the res change but I'm curious if anybody can help diagnose specifically the cause.
View attachment 757467

Here you see browning of the veins and light yellowing in the leaves This actually seems to still be progressing

View attachment 757468
A somewhat similar look on this plant. New growth looks almost perfect old growth looks like deficiency of some sort. All of the early life leaves where warped and curled but it seems to have grown out of that.
View attachment 757469

This is a older fan leaf. Several of the older fan leaves on several of the plants look similar to this.View attachment 757470
Here you can see overall health is fine and they obviously aren't close to dying but still these leaf issues seem too serious to progress to flower until rectified.
View attachment 757472
now these actually seem much better than yesterday. You can see the new growth is kind of twisted, wrinkled, growing slowly and the tips are bright neon yellow. Most of the leaf was going to that yellow color yesterday and the coloring is starting to turn more normal after the new batch of nutes.

Anyways I'm keeping this journal so I can more easily track problems but also for people to jump in and add their thoughts and opinions. Trying to make this a great grow. I will upload my spreadsheet for the nutes once flower cycle has begun.
AN seems to do better when fed and all used same day from what I've seen. They got a bunch of organics in all their products and I find it smells bad even 24 hours later,even when aerated. Bad smell usually indicates anaerobic bacteria or something bad. Connoisseur has quite a bit of potassium for coco too. Idk, just shootin spit balls here, hope ya get it sorted
 
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