Hail Hydro 2.0: New Beginnings

[PhatNuggz]

PhatNuggz,

I have a couple of questions for you:

1. I noticed throughout your thread the plants from seedling to fully mature have some twisted and burnt looking leaves. Is this something about the strain you are using? Could be un-diagnosed root issues or too high a ppm as well.

2. Roots often look brown and you mentioned the color of the nutes but if the nutes dye the roots that dark how do you tell if your getting some amount of root rot? In earlier pictures I saw some roots that were very dark compared to adjacent roots and that looked suspicious to me. Also, the leaf twisting and drying out/dying thing looks like what I have seen in my hydro grow when the roots were just starting to rot or had a partial outbreak (not enough to kill em outright but surely stunts their performance). I struggled like hell to keep my water temps under 69F but finally succumbed to buying a chiller ($$ouch).

3. Generally speaking how does your water smell and what are the res temperatures (min and max)?

I stopped using general hydro cause of the freakin dyes and switched to clear nutes eventually will go to a commercial agricultural formula like Jack's. I am sick of the commercial cannabis nutes that are simply overpriced hyped up products.

Just curious not trying to criticize here......

Dee

Welcome Dee

If you dug back far enough into this thread you would know that for the last 2 grows I was experimenting with NPK RAW nutrients, though not developed for hydro, I was trying to make them work. Perhaps the biggest issues were caused by me supplementing their veg or bloom with fulvic acid and microbes. without those, it may work, but somethig wreaked havoc with my roots. Honestly, it's a testimony to cannabis' amazing ability to survive. The 2 plants are drying now. Smaples are good, but volume understandablly small. The plant I finished outdoors in soil, was super healthy with the NPK RAW nutes

And I have a couple grows worth of Emerald Harvest nutes (developed for hydro) to use up. They're what Im using this grow

However, this grow I am experimenting with growing with lpa, with a twist. LPA roots typically look like soggy spaghetti, no doubt due to 24/7 watering: roots benefit from some dry time to process the food. Without it, the cells swell up and shut down. So, I am using a deep cycle timer: still dialing in o/o times, now at ~ 3 minutes on/30 minutes off

hrh

 

[DGP]

Ah, I see now. I read the whole thread but not your previous hail hydro. Must have missed that detail about the raw NPK. I like experimentation sometimes it moves us forward and often failure occurs but I like the experimental spirit. I know a lot of people have tried to figure out how to use organics in hydro.

The cool part is you got a harvest with a supply to keep you going in spite of some issues.

Thanks,

Dee

 

[PhatNuggz]

hope you hang around. I expect to redeem myself this grow

 

[DGP]

Yeah, will do. I feel like with every new seed or clone I am doing the same, redeeming myself from the last grow, trying to refine and add skills and find answers to my questions.

Dee

 

[PhatNuggz]

wait until you see pics of the roots tomorrow

 

[PhatNuggz]

Hard to believe the seeds popped on 3/2

I need to get the tote systems ready, but waiting on new 1/2" bulkheads and screens that are designed for F & D tables. My reason is to create more DO as the nutrients enter and exit each tote

I have a sample (230g) coming from a relatively new dry nutrient company (Mega Crop).

A couple hydro growers on another gro site are having success with it. I will use it in one rez for this grow

Look at these roots. The plants don't match them yet, but damn, these are only 19 days from breaking the surface

pH has been fairly stable < 6.4

I am swapping out blue ice paks every 3-4 hours

It would be a good idea to drop the tote into a cooler

 

[DGP]

Man Nuggz, the roots look stunning. Have you done any root trimming to make em branch out like that or did they just come in with all the branching? Very nice start. In my res I have been using some tubing to kind of floom the water as well as letting it fall a ways into the top of the res....kinda like a waterfall in a pond to add aeration.

I like what I am reading about certain powdered nutes like Mega Crop and Jacks professional. I am going with Jacks for now but my own personal opinion is that liquid canna nutrients are pretty much expensive hype. I used to farm (not cannabis) and if agricultural nutes were as expensive as canna nutes all the farmers would go broke and there would be no food crops. Have talked to some large grow owners and they say we are getting played like a violin with all the canna nute marketing hype. The Jack's I ordered cost about $100 for 50 lbs of dry nutes and it will last me about 2 years reducing my nute cost from about 700-800 per year to about $100 a year! We will see how it comes out but I am encouraged by what I see and reports from people who have used dry nutes for years.

Tops of the babies look pretty happy too! :)

Dee

 

[PhatNuggz]

Thanks Dee

The mist heads add DO right when it's needed most, mixed into the nutes during each spray cycle directly onto the roots

Yeah, I root trim, but the coco net pot inserts help a lot too

Too bad you already went all in on Jacks, BUT, look at Mega Crops ingredients and add what's missing. Most individual supplements are available from NPK RAW on Amazon

 

[DGP]

Thanks Dee

The mist heads add DO right when it's needed most, mixed into the nutes during each spray cycle directly onto the roots

Yeah, I root trim, but the coco net pot inserts help a lot too

Too bad you already went all in on Jacks, BUT, look at Mega Crops ingredients and add what's missing. Most individual supplements are available from NPK RAW on Amazon

Looking at Jack's I don't see what is missing but I am planning to use a variation on 3-2-1. Jacks hydro pro, their Ca nitrate and Epsom. That combo is 3 grams/2 grams/ 1 gram per gallon and is supposed to be a full nute profile. Which elements do you think are missing? Just curious....

Dee

 

[PhatNuggz]

Mega Crop has a nutrient comparison chart

 

[Farmer P]

Don't know if these are the same guys, but they are giving away 15 dollars worth for free it looks like on this page.
https://greenleafnutrients.com/product/mega-crop/?attribute_size=230g&v=f24485ae434a

 

[PhatNuggz]

yep that's them

 

[PhatNuggz]

here's an important point when doing lpa

You need ample water/solution above the pump in order to get proper head pressure out of the sprayers

 

[PhatNuggz]

Update

Transitioning to F & D totes right around the corner

Nutrients ~ 300ppm

So far only 2 clogged mist heads, BUT, that is 2 to many. This prevents some of the roots from getting a proper feeding= drooping (plant in lower left is droppy as a result). I resolved this by placing a nylon footie around the pump intake

On/off times. On time is now 3 minutes. I increased off time from 30 minutes to 60 minutes. Still dialing it in

New Active Aqua bulk heads (amazon/10 packs) should improve on DO mixing into solution as each feeding enters the totes and drain back (see pics) they are larger diameter than what I have been using, so, will need to replace all totes in order to drill bigger holes

 

[PhatNuggz]

Plants are responding to cleaned mist heads (plus nylon footie), especially the one in the lower left. Interestingly, both it and the big one in the middle seem to have pistils developing at the very top

The smaller ones were not getting sufficient spray from the get go

There's a fair amount of debris on the bottom of the rez. Will be changing it out later this morning. First stop is Harbor Freight to get the correct size hole saw for the new bulkheads

Crossing my fingers that the new 750 gph bottom feed pump marries to the pvc riser. Actually, I need to check that before heading out in case I need to go to HD

 

[PhatNuggz]

It seems these nozzles are more prone to clogging. Their intended use is HPA. I had them, so another experiment (would they work with lpa?). Yes

FYI: I traded a guy some of my seeds for 3 of these lpa spray systems. Unfortunately, he glued all the connections. Still, it showed me that I was onto something.

I'm gathering parts now to make my own, starting with a single pvc bar in the center of the tote running the long way. I haven't decided whether to get more hpa mist heads, or simply drill a bunch of small holes in the pvc and cap both ends. My idea is to drill holes as small as possible in hopes of simulating the fine mist, which I think is the reason for the sweet roots (root misting comes from hpa). Gonna test it: I will drill one row straight up with 2 more rows one @ ~ 60*s left and other right of center. I just talked myself into the latter since i have everything I need, but, the mist heads are cheap, so...

 

[PhatNuggz]

Damn, my 2 biggest plants have nuts

 

[PhatNuggz]

The 4 remaining plants are small. To say the least I am disappointed. 2 have pistils, the other 2 (even smaller) have not shown sex yet.

I really need 4 females to run a proper nutrient test

Chances are they are, but still 2 are very small

I moved the largest male outdoors

 

[PhatNuggz]

IMHO, you only need DO during the feeding cycle, AND roots DO benefit from a pause cycle

Enter my new technique: low pressure aero in shallow water (just enough to cover the lp pump). Great news for this technique is bottom draw pumps are readily available AND reasonable, plus, they would cut the nutrient use in half. Im running ~ 3 minutes on and 30-60 minutes off. This depends on how many plants, mist heads...

anyway, it broke my heart, but I had to pull 2 males yesterday, They were pretty big for being less than a month old from seed

So far, 2/4 left have pistils, the other 2 likely females considering they haven't sexed yet, but they are all small, and the 2 that haven't sexed yet, smaller still; none of these were getting adequate misting, so they're stunted at a critical time in their development.

This is first my attempt: adjusting on the fly. I now have a new mist head/PVC design, and am using a side feed pump.

Now that I think of it, because the bottom draw pump only needs ~ 1/2 the solution of the side feed pump, which also requires more nutes for headroom.

Another revelation: this also means fewer blue ice pack rotations each day and easier to maintain stable rez temps. I'll be switching that pump out tomorrow!

Pic of biggest plant after I moved it outside and roughly 1/2 section of its roots

plus roots under the hood, and a pic of what's left

hth

 

[PhatNuggz]

here's an important point when doing lpa

You need ample water/solution above the pump in order to get proper head pressure out of the sprayers

Im ammending this because of bottom draw pumps. I have 2, one is a 730 (I have mistakenly said it was 750), the other is 265 gph, comparable to the side draw I am currently using). Sucking nutes from the bottom means one needs a hell of a lot LESS nutes; combined with the short feed times @ ~ 3 minutes, as long as the solution line is even with the top of the pump, that should be plenty