Hail Hydro 2.0: New Beginnings

[PhatNuggz]

It took a couple hours to trim, but feels so satisfying when done

The gray tiles are 17" diagonally. Actual WET weight is 241 gms, again, that's just the main cola after harvesting a fair amount off large cola lower branches ~ 5 days prior (see earlier pictures) Note the fine roots hairs throughout. These are key to getting more food into the plants

I didn't weigh them but guessing ~ 200gms wet. I mention this is in advance of you seeing the root pictures.

It seems there's big dick concept that you need big roots to grow big plants. Well, I wouldn't call these 'big' plants, but the correlation seems skewed to me. I mean would you think 450gms WET could be grown from such a small root ball? But this is consistent with my current F & D system, which is about to get a new set of buckets. Could my side drain DIY totes be an issue to better grows?

Probably 5 more days to harvest the other 2 plants

 

[PhatNuggz]

>95% red hairs, so I just turned off the monos: the remaining 2 are totally in the dark now

 

[PhatNuggz]

FF to ~ 4:40 to see plant growing in nanobubble water

 

[PhatNuggz]

Just harvested 1/2 left , these under the Amare Tech SE 250. It seems that these have a lot more trichs than the same strain under the SPYDR 600, which lacks IR, but that can be added via supplemental bars from SolSkin

Note the roots pics. IMHO, thatt is not a lot of roots to have grown this plant. even so, I am going to up my game next grow with Oxygen Pots and maybe O2Grow (or something similar) to create nanobubbles in each rez

 

[PhatNuggz]

N O on the D O Emitter???
I ve been saying more bioavailability, and here is the proof

ALSO, the smaller bubbles stay in suspension far longer

 

[PhatNuggz]

Why No One Should Use Tap Water
https://www.grozine.com/2014/08/12/hy...demonstration/

 

[PhatNuggz]

DO dissipates in warm water much faster than cool water. What we want is to increase the DO in the rez water to prevent root/stem rot issues, which is why we use air pumps/stones. BUT, they draw in unfiltered ambient air, which in addition to being warm, could contain germs, viruses, pathogens... , and it injects CO2 from the ambient air 24/7, which affects pH.
Waterfalls are a significant improvement, but the pump (which is in the rez) needs to be on a timer to prevent overheating. Mine are on a timer running 3 minutes/60. However, this frequency is a guess. To determine how much DO is in the water one needs a DO meter which is $500+. Im a small personal se grower, so no bueno

How much DO do air stones.waterfalls add? According to O2Grow (they make a nanobubble DO emitter) who demos with a DO meter, the max with air stones is ~ 8% DO. "I" assume waterfalls are similar

And while I have vg roots, I can't help but think that a 50% increase to 12% using a O2Grow DO nanobubble emitter (according to O2Grow) will pay dividends, WHILE, eliminating the need for a chiller.

Why? Again, according to O2Grow (and other studies I have read plus videos I have watched promoting nanoDO) nanobubbles are the key. Presumably, when left undisturbed in the rez water, DO stays in suspension for > 12 hours, which is more than enough for simple F & D systems, and may well supercharge them

I have yet to find a grower using it, but tests restoring polluted and stagnant lakes, tributaries, etc. to good health have intrigued me to get one to see If this works as advertised

The O2Grow 2020 (good for 20 gallon rez) is $300, which is less than a 20 g chiller.

I will be reporting on it in my next grow thread Thinking Outside the Box, but won't start up for a a couple months, though I will use nanowater to start seedlings

 

[PhatNuggz]

This article looks to be very enlightening regarding O2 pot system

https://topgrows.com/oxygen-pot-hydroponic-grow-systems-review/

 

[PhatNuggz]

Finally, a peek under the hood with O2Grow emitter

ot much, but it's something.

Most important when says even with warm dwc

 

[Aqua Man]

For the sake of conversation about this I will point out what I disagree with as many claims use half truths for the sake of sales.

1. DO emitters - Once the hype in the aquarium hobby I see they have moved over to hydroponics since not taking well and for good reason. They do not add oxygen to the water per-say, they work by using 2 plates charged with electricity that react with the h2o separating the hydrogen and oxygen molecules to release hydrogen and oxygen from h2o. They are more expensive, they do not provide more DO however they do provide more suspended o2. Once equilibrium is reached without the addition of pressure it is extremely hard to increase oxygen levels in water as the gas is not easily dissolved in water. Probably the biggest reason they didn't make in the aquarium hobby was the fact these charged plates break down due to oxidization and release toxic heavy metals, I bet they didn't include that into their sale pitch.

2. Warmer water exchanges gas faster - You are right however warmer water also holds less dissolved oxygen so this can be counter productive. Again once equilibrium is achieved your not going to be adding more so having more DO in cooler temps provides more of a buffer. And if you looking to prevent stem/root rot a cooler temp will allow you more time to react as warmer water temps also speed the reproduction of bacteria (both good and bad).

3. Air pumps introducing Co2 and pathogens etc. - Ok you need to understand what equilibrium is in order to see that Co2 is not injected into the water by air pumps. Air holds several types of gases ALL of these gases will try to reach equilibrium with water and once they have done so they will not add more. To aid in explaining think of a several glasses of water of varying sizes ALL will fill up but once full you will not be able to add more (this is not 100% accurate but it to much to try to explain for this purpose). Pathogens, viruses etc. live everywhere and to think you would eliminate the risk or even substantially reduce it with these emitters I just don't see.

4. Waterfalls produce heat - Not always the case depending on the pump efficiency and drive type you use, heat can range a whole lot. A mag drive pump produces very little heat. Also these have been adopted from the aquarium hobby and used due to the limited surface area to help oxygenate the water and usually incorporated into a trickle filter system. They provide excellent gas exchange and used in combination with a trickle filter a great home for beneficial bacteria.

5. How much DO do air stones/waterfalls provide - Your way off here and this is a marketing gimmick. There are far to many variables but here is the basic. Water will hold a certain value of oxygen at equilibrium based on a few factors, temperature, pressure and salinity. If the level of oxygen falls below equilibrium due to use by plants etc. it will naturally try to bring itself back to equilibrium and the same is true if it is increased above equilibrium. While emitter's do provide tiny bubbles in essence more surface are to dissolve into water the majority of gas exchange comes from the surface area and agitation.

These emitters are not some miracle if you doubt what I have said take a look over the past years on almost any reef or aquarium forum. They DO NOT provide more DO and you can even find some of the more honest manufactures that admit that.

I won't get into tap water but unless you have unusual high levels of heavy metals or high Na (sodium) and a ppm of 200ish or lower I can see a problem there either

 

[PhatNuggz]

I appreciate the input.

My curiosity is aroused having 3 grows using HPA., where nutrients are pushed through HPA mist heads at ~ 100 psi (tiny/nano bubbles of O2 + nutrient misting the roots). I've never seen massive root balls that looked like cotton candy using any other method: more root surface area equals more nutrient consumption per feeding. Alas, HPA requires tight tolerances for root chamber temps, which can ony be maintained here a few months per year.

Thinking back, I was using an 8 bulb hot5 which threw off a lot of heat. I had to cover the lid with heavy duty Al foil which helped a lot. Back then, LEDs were in their infancy. Been using them for 4+ years now. Anyway,t the HPA knowledge has helped me develop the F & D system I've been using and improving. The last biggest improvement was to replace air pumps/stones with waterfalls. So when I came across O2Grow I was predisposed

Understand that I am regurgitating info provided by O2Grow. But I would not equate growing plants with fish, although I have seen research videos where stagnant, polluted lakes, canals, and tributaries have been cleaned up by just using commercial grade DO equipment; plants regrew, aquatic life returned. I also saw a YT video where both fresh and saltwater fish have lived in the same tank for YEARS

I have hunted for videos or grow threads using emitters to no avail. In one of the videos on the O2Grow site, they are at a convention in a retailers booth, circa 2015?. Dennis is using a DO meter, which he recommends if one is to use emitters. It's been a while, but as I recall, he used a $500 Hanna DO meter to show airstone DO 8% v emitter DO 12%, (50% increase) so where did the 50% more O2 come from?

(I emailed the retailer, but never got a response )

and even if that is marketing hype, making the o2 bubbles nanosized should simulate HPA. And, since it stays in suspension for hours all I need do is to charge the nutes prior to each 2 hour feeding.

Unless you can direct me to a grow where it was used and failed, I am going to spend the ~ $250 to find out

Feel free to respond

 

[Aqua Man]

Just providing info to try and save you money... to answer your question on where does the 50% extra come from... it doesn't look at o2 grows own faqs section. If you doubt my info that's your call. Lots of forum peer reviews you can find with a little effort. But it's your money, your choice and your opinion in the end.

https://www.o2grow.com/faq

And that is them only providing half truths. Look at the life 1600 hrs... why is that? Because the plates break down releasing heavy metals.

I have tried to explain but as the saying goes you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Good luck in whatever you decide friend

 

[PhatNuggz]

Thanks, I was already aware of that, but, I c/pd the FAQs for anyone else following along. IMHO, parts replacement is a part of doing business, so to speak. I now have both 2 and 4 head air pumps and multiple stones gathering dust. I also have multiple Hydro Halo drip rings, 2 HPA pumps @ $100, plus a bunch of fitting, nozzles, etc. I gave away a Quantum Bad Boy 8 bulb with ~ 20 used bulbs when I moved to LEDs

More to your point, emitters are only $59.95. I use ~ 300ppm to veg and ~ 800-1000ppm to flower (guessing minimal wear to the electrodes). As I mentioned I will cycle just prior to each 2 hour flood, and my rez is ~ 4 gallons, so 'on time' should be relatively short. Even if it takes 20 minutes to resaturate 4 gallons (I really should get a DO meter) = 240 minutes/4 hours per day if my math is correct 1600 hours divided by 4 hours/day = 400 days. I don't see the big deal, but then I did the math as a part of my research

Info that O2Grow should provide: how much time to saturate one gallon with one emitter. Since I often run 2 separate rezes, I will get a 2020 to have one emitter per rez.

Q: How long do the emitters last?
A: The emitters will last more than 1600 hours with normal use, meaning that you only need to run the emitters a few hours per day and that you maintain the emitters by cleaning them with muriatic acid whenever they get buildup from calcium. The screens are coated with iridium and with proper use and maintenance you should be able to even extend the life of the emitter past 1600 hours. You will know when the emitter is at it's end of life when the emitter is generating significantly fewer bubbles.

Q: 1600 hours does not seem very long?
A: If you run the emitter about 2-3 hours per day, everyday, you should be able to get about 16-24 months use. It's important to note that once charged, the water will hold it's oxygen for about 12-24 hours without disruption (meaning, no bubblers and no flow) so you would actually be safe to run every other day and maintain fully saturated water.

Q: Is there a benefit to run this unit 24 hours a day? Will the plants get more oxygen?
A: Water will only hold so much dissolved oxygen. It depends on the type of water, the temperature of the water and any nutrients or other additives introduced into the water. Once the water is fully saturated, it can hold no more and running the emitter longer will not provide any more DO. The best way to check is to have a DO meter and measure the DO ppm.

 

[PhatNuggz]

I finally ordered a O2Grow 2020 yesterday

I might be starting a new grow in mid september, but might have to push it to mid October. Just depends on whether i go to CO in early October

 

[PhatNuggz]

Ive had it for a few days, attempting to make potable water (NOT ITS INTENDED USE) using SEA 90 minerals, which I use in a recirculating water device for drinking purposes (>1200ppm) at 15 minutes x 2 emitters, but the O2G breaks the salts down, releasing chlorine gas. Now that makes sense, so I made several more batches with one emitter, lowering the ppm each time, even as low as 120ppm, I still smell some Cl; but at < 30 it's fine, but that doesn't help with mineral uptake in my body. So, I am mixing my liquid minerals with the low ppm O2G water

I doubt the Cl gas will have any negative affect on plants

I usually veg at <200ppm then pre flower at ~ 4-500pm, and flower at ~ 800-1000

Ive been communicating with Dennis at O2G


TBC

 

[PhatNuggz]

Ive been warning people about using blurple lights, here's proof and a bizarre connection caused by cool/blue light

 

[PhatNuggz]

After making a few batches, I have noticed it seems to be working a lot better/making bubbles much faster

 

[PhatNuggz]

The O2G begins.

A few weeks ago, my dumb ass went all in on the 2 outdoor plants . When making DO water with SEA 90 minerals, there was a lot of chlorine smell. Instead of tossing it (or better still switching to my Emerald Harvest nutes) I diluted it and used it for several feedings; both feeding and foliar spray. Both died :cry:

So, I decided to start anew with some very old seeds, and no SEA 90 minerals. I soaked the seeds in Kelp + DO water. Once they cracked I placed them into presoaked Coco Pellets with DO water + a tiny amount of Root Wizard, Grow, and NPK RAW Kelp

So far 7/8 have cotyledons :cool:

 

[PhatNuggz]

My babies a a touch behind due to constant clogging of my hpa mist heads. Earlier toda I replaced them with heads that have much bigger holes and will not clog. Within 3 hours the babies responded with an additional leaf sets

I the venturi I ordered from AZon came with no instructions or adapters. You wouldn't think instructions are needed but, when you see the picture... I went to 3 different hardware stores today in search of adapters as my EcoPlus' are metric. To be continued

 

[PhatNuggz]

No picture of the 'venturi', as I am returning it. First, there is no tip to extend into the 1/2" flow tube, and, instead of being on a 45* angle it is 90* which does not create the flow- by needed to make the bubbles

Im returning it

I replaced my 280 gph pump with 3 heads for my EcoPlus 640 with 4 heads. I put a nylon footie under the bottom feed. I was hoping this would resolve the clogging, but am still dealing with clogged hpa mist heads, which are the better choice IF they didn't clog. I am forced to use the non clogging heads which spray way too much. I had to cut the 'on' time back quite a bit so as not to drown the coco/ roots