Hi, I’m A Noobie Need Who Needs Some Expert Help With A Complicated Problem.

[boyoboy]

I have made whats looking to be a catastrophic mistake and wonder if anyone can help with some damage control.

I have used for my Miracle gro for my soil (peat free compost and enriched multi purpose. Both have slow release nutrients.) they are mixed very approximately 50/50 but varying degrees in each pot.


They seemed to do really well during the vegetative stage but as they have gone into flowering there are various problems appearing which seem to be getting worse as time goes by.


The first signs of trouble appeared after I started to feed them in the flowering stage, this appeared in deformed leaves in the new growth in some plants. These plants looked healthy and dark green with just deformity and maybe some stunted growth.

The others have been gradually getting slightly more pale in color and have now started to display brown spots on some leaves, generally higher on the plant. I will include pictures both at the end of this post.

I have looked at the brown spots under a microscope and cannot see any bugs. The brown spots seem to be mostly inn the gap between the veins.


I have done hours of research until I realized that the soil might be the issue. I have stopped feeding them as I did not want to over feed them if the soil is already feeding them. I am watering correctly as far as I know, typically every third day when the pots are light and the soil is coming away from the pot at the top. I water till there is slight run off and then remove the run off from the tray under the pot.

I have just checked the run off and it is ph5, the water I was using was tap water and was ph of 7.1.

I was using ph paper at first but now have a pen. I would like to know if the run off ph is important?

I was checking my ph after the fert was added.

I have a dirt cheap meter that supposedly checks the light levels/moisture and soil ph but it seems wildly inaccurate, reads ph7ish in soil.


There are leaves turning yellow at the underside of the plant and falling off and the brown spotted leaves at the top seem to be easy to pluck off.


I am using HPS lights 600w at the correct height.


Pots are fairly large, 5 gallon I think.


I fed with soil grow nutrients during vegetative stage and switched to soil bloom when switched to flowering. I stopped this after noticing the deformity in some plants and slight loss of color in others with no deformity after first soil bloom application.


The environment is within temp and recommended moisture levels, 20-30deg cel and 40-60% moist.


I have recently been made redundant and spent the last of my money on all this set up and am getting fairly concerned with the situation. I would greatly appreciate any and all advice on how to limp to the end as best I can. I have done a heck of a lot of research but this seems to be an unusual problem. The only information I repeatedly find is, don’t use miracle gro. Its the only thing I didn’t research at the beginning but probably the worst mistake I could have made.


Please let me know if you need any further information that would help with a diagnosis. Thank you.

 

[REDiJEDi160]

Damn bro I don't know what to say other than don't use miracle grow lol next time try some ff ocean forest or super soil

 

[goingtoguano]

I'll give you my $.02 and I doubt its worth that.

Stop feeding now_especially anything with Nitrogen in it.
Use good water. If you don't know the quality of your water, buy a PPM/EC meter and find out. They are cheap on amazon. In the mean time, you could use some store bought spring water or distilled with some CalMag. Is your water chlorinated? I tested the local spring water in my area and its only 35ppm so that's good and low.
Your could have a either deficiency or a nutrient lock-out issue brought on by either PH or (more likely) an overdose of some ferts. I don't have the experience to comment on that.
High doses of Nitrogen in flower is not desirable. Especially late-flower. There isn't much you can do about the slow-release ferts in the soil (which is imho boning you).

Don't freak out too much about the lower leaves. While they are giving you some good indications of a problem, they fall off anyway later in flower and I don't think you are going to need them for nutrients.

 

[boyoboy]

Thanks for the reply. Please note these are the worst areas and not all branches are like this (yet). I wondered if the ph of run off is something to worry about, as this could be the problem as you suggest. If the run off is ph5 should I just water with correct ph or should I adjust it up to compensate for the low run off ph?
I have read that the run off ph is not to be worried about but that is in ideal conditions,not like mine. I have also read that some people have done quite well with miracle gro in the past but so I am wondering about ph.
I cannot find what ferts are in miracle gro so dont know if they are getting everything they need?
Would flushing the soil once a week help at all?

 

[boyoboy]

!/ Basically, I have stopped feeding but don't know if miracle gro has all the nutes they need so may be deficient in some?
2/ Should I flush the soil once a week or so?
3/ What does the brown spot problem look like to an experienced grower with the given information above?
4/ Is it possible to wash the soil off most of the roots and resoil/repot them?
5/Should I just keep watering with correct ph water and not be concerned that the run off ph is 5?

 

[dan1989]

I don't do soil, only coco. But word to the wise man: dark green doesn't mean healthy, it means you have an abundance of nitrogen in your leaves. I'm guessing they are kind of leathery feeling, rather than dainty and paper-like. I understand times are hard for you, but I think the second worst mistake you made behind using miracle gro is cheaping out on the PH Meter. This is probably the single most important piece of kit you could need. Mine cost £40 (about $50...?) and I see it like buying snap - on tools. You only need to buy them once. I had the creaky crappy yellow coloured meters and hated them. Hope you manage to work it out pal

 

[dan1989]

I don't do soil, only coco. But word to the wise man: dark green doesn't mean healthy, it means you have an abundance of nitrogen in your leaves. I'm guessing they are kind of leathery feeling, rather than dainty and paper-like. I understand times are hard for you, but I think the second worst mistake you made behind using miracle gro is cheaping out on the PH Meter. This is probably the single most important piece of kit you could need. Mine cost £40 (about $50...?) and I see it like buying snap - on tools. You only need to buy them once. I had the creaky crappy yellow coloured meters and hated them. Hope you manage to work it out pal

Didn't mean to write creaky in that, it was the predictive text thing on the phone but I guess the cheap meters are kind of creaky lol

 

[goingtoguano]

1) I don't know either and it is hard to know because there could be plenty of a nutrient in there that is being locked-out and adding more wont help and could just make matters worse.

2) you could try a flush or two but those slow-release arent going to wash away quick so it could help or make matters worse. It would definitely be worse if you over-water so you need to have a good drying time in between.

3) I am not experienced enough to answer.

4) it looks like your already at least week 3-4 in flower so you shouldnt stress them any more now (that you can help) or you could get hermies.

5) you could try going up a little. My well water is 8.3 out of the tap and, while I have only rarely used it (without reverse osmosis), I have and it doesn't seem to bother anything. The thing is, it will take time for it to have any result. Several waterings anyway and you won't know if your doing good or not other than the ph runoff which, like you read, is questionable.

 

[Snoleperd]

As soon as I read miracle grow I know exactly what ur problem is, miracle grow contains it's own food thus when u fed ur plants u burned them, buy fox farm, run do not walk from miracle grow its shit & only good 4 houseplants + those assholes put sodium in there shit, as 4 your plant flush long and hard & don't feed, I don't know what will happen if u add flowering agent most likely burn your plant again, I'm sorry friend but that's how you learn 2 grow by your mistakes, if you need help ask SNOLEPERD I will be glad to help you in any way possible. SNOLEPERD

 

[Dunge]

I don't believe you are going to successfully flush a time release fertilizer.
I'd foliar with calcium chloride to arrest what looks like a calcium deficiency.
Top dress with earth worm castings.
Catch some rain water.
Ride'er out.
Good luck.

 

[Snoleperd]

I don't believe you are going to successfully flush a time release fertilizer.
I'd foliar with calcium chloride to arrest what looks like a calcium deficiency.
Top dress with earth worm castings.
Catch some rain water.
Ride'er out.
Good luck.

That a good idea 2, me I would throw it in the trash by now the damage is done and his plant is going 2 fall apart like a Chinese motorcycle, it happend 2 me and I should have known better, I do use miracle grow on my houseplants just add water, I ran a tiny bit short on fox farm so stupidly added not even a lot of that shit had a nice girl going till I fed it, it went in the trash, allso when u do use miracle grow u must dust with De earth there mix usaly are full of those little gnats, black flys you know what I mean, even fox farms has those fly in there mix but know where as bad as miracle grow the assholese, de earth is organic and will add a little calcium to your mix, i feel bad 4 him but i have been growing many years and from time to time f up. Sincerely. SNOLEPERD

 

[boyoboy]

Thank you Dan. I have no options at the moment funds wise so am stuck with the cheap ph pen for now.

Thank you goingtoguano for answering my questions one at a time, very helpful and concise information. I have been to a local shop and he advised me to water with ph of 5.8 and said the run off ph of 5 was acceptable? He said its what goes in that counts. I now don’t know what ph to water at. Lol. My tap water is 7.1 and if there has been lock out that's the ph that locked it when added to the shitty soil. I have the shitty pen which is better than the ph paper and as you know measures in .1 increments. Its what I got and all I can afford for now, I just don’t know what ph to water at.


I will try a flush or two and see how they react. I have no choice with water options, its tap water. As far as I know all tap water is treated with chlorine to kill any bugs but I may be wrong.


Thank you Dunge. I bought some cal mag and also bought some potassium and phosphorous additive as I read Miracle gro is lacking the necessary amounts needed in these. The shop did not have earth worm castings and I don’t have a spade. :)

What do the worm castings do?

Thank you Snoleperd, I don’t think I have a pest problem,knats etc. I looked at underside of leaves under microscope and there are no signs of anything like that at all. Unfortunately I cant afford to waste the time, set up cost and energy bill to bin them if they will achieve something. I have become fond of my new hobby and feel I have done very well for my first attempt with my set up and research apart from the worst unfix-able bloody mistake I could have made. I was enjoying my new hobby with a refreshing vigor until I went 12/12 (apparently that's when things go tits up with the plants changing needs) and the unknown terror struck, causing lots and lots of extra research into a problem that does not have much information on across the whole world wide web. I am the kind of person who tries much harder than average but if it can go wrong it does, no matter what I am doing :) However I am a tenacious bugger (probably because of this) and if it is possible to limp through I bloody well will.

I greatly appreciate your offer of further help if needed and will keep you all updated in this post as it might help others in the future.


In summary, I bought Canna pk 13/14, Plant Magic Magne-Cal and also got talked into buying Canna Boost which is very expensive. Feel like I got my pants pulled down a bit on that one but maybe not?

I could only afford a 250ml bottle so will just use once a week to stretch it to the end and see if it helps but after getting home and doing some more research I found that Molasses would probably do the same job for a lot less.

 

[oldskol4evr]

just caught this,maybe i can help,
first you cannot no matter what anyone says ,FLUSH SOIL period,all you do with that attempt is make mud,and the clay count in the soil just bury all your life in it,dont have a clue who ever came up with that shit,like saying vacum your carpet till the dirt comes out and in true life to do that you have to pull it up and vacum the sand out,lol anyway never do that,the problem you have is ph out of control due to the time realease and if you add any other nutrients just add to problem.
get some humic and fulvic acid and feed the soil ,it will clean up your ph,fulvic helps with the uptake,and humic is the adjuster,its under ever leaf and log you see ,,give it that and next time you need to feed or light pots,give it water and fulvic acid,again it increase the uptake,next feeding humic and fulvic,by then you shoulod have leveled off your ph.
WATER AND PENS go into your water source,check your ppm and ec,couple times threw out the day,in that day you will know what your adverage is,,keep this number in mind,,so when you do get around to mixing nutrients,check your ec hold them ec numbers ,you can get them from the hanna chart,dont add your ph down or up until you have mixed you nutes,then feed .
im not into the clinton foundations and fuck they neighbor threw soil wagon,but i do know you can grow in the stuff,just takes tweeking that most folk dont have and dont want the head ache,but when that all you got ,roll wit it bro,the way they have designed the stuff,it really is good for about 4 or 5 months of slow release,so use the humic and fulvic as your feed,and wouldnt hurt to put a bit of clean compost on them just scrath it in the top that alone is nutrients,every time you water it filters threw it if you dig.
so in a nut shell ,damage done,that screwed will not come back,roll with it like cancer and pamper it friend,dont worry of yield or looks and get the smoke off that you can ,next time you know better ,hope this helps a bit,,doesnt matter what soil you use,just nothing with slow realease nutrients in it,above you heard me say feed the soil,this is my meaning for that,feed the soil to make the life in the pot grow your pot and buy doing this stay away from synthetics and salts that kill them,and bro you be rolling in the stone if you keep them critters happy in that pot hahahah

 

[boyoboy]

just caught this,maybe i can help,
first you cannot no matter what anyone says ,FLUSH SOIL period,all you do with that attempt is make mud,and the clay count in the soil just bury all your life in it,dont have a clue who ever came up with that shit,like saying vacum your carpet till the dirt comes out and in true life to do that you have to pull it up and vacum the sand out,lol anyway never do that,the problem you have is ph out of control due to the time realease and if you add any other nutrients just add to problem.
get some humic and fulvic acid and feed the soil ,it will clean up your ph,fulvic helps with the uptake,and humic is the adjuster,its under ever leaf and log you see ,,give it that and next time you need to feed or light pots,give it water and fulvic acid,again it increase the uptake,next feeding humic and fulvic,by then you shoulod have leveled off your ph.
WATER AND PENS go into your water source,check your ppm and ec,couple times threw out the day,in that day you will know what your adverage is,,keep this number in mind,,so when you do get around to mixing nutrients,check your ec hold them ec numbers ,you can get them from the hanna chart,dont add your ph down or up until you have mixed you nutes,then feed .
im not into the clinton foundations and fuck they neighbor threw soil wagon,but i do know you can grow in the stuff,just takes tweeking that most folk dont have and dont want the head ache,but when that all you got ,roll wit it bro,the way they have designed the stuff,it really is good for about 4 or 5 months of slow release,so use the humic and fulvic as your feed,and wouldnt hurt to put a bit of clean compost on them just scrath it in the top that alone is nutrients,every time you water it filters threw it if you dig.
so in a nut shell ,damage done,that screwed will not come back,roll with it like cancer and pamper it friend,dont worry of yield or looks and get the smoke off that you can ,next time you know better ,hope this helps a bit,,doesnt matter what soil you use,just nothing with slow realease nutrients in it,above you heard me say feed the soil,this is my meaning for that,feed the soil to make the life in the pot grow your pot and buy doing this stay away from synthetics and salts that kill them,and bro you be rolling in the stone if you keep them critters happy in that pot hahahah

Hi oldskol4ever, thank you for your time and information, you have made me feel a lot better about being able to get to the end. I got some hope back.
I have ordered a ppm/ec pen and read up on the hanna chart. I am a bit confused and wondered if you would mind answering a few questions so I can buy the rest of the things you suggested.

1/ Would a tomato grow bag be ok to use for the top soil or should I buy some soil specifically for cannabis from the cannabis grow shop?

2/ You mention checking the ppm of my water, is this so that I can mix chemical nutrients accurately?
I thought you meant at the end of your post that I should not use chemical additives at all and just get the PH corrected so that the miracle gro and the new top soil can feed the plant with no additives?

3/ I have found some fulvic acid and humic acid to buy that are already pre mixed together and cheaper than buying separate, is it ok to use this or should I buy them separately?

4/ Can you tell me what PH I should water at considering My run off was PH5 or will the fulvic/humic take care of this? Unfortunately I flushed them thoroughly before I saw your reply, 30 liters fresh water per pot. This brought the run off PH up too 5.9 but may have washed some nutrients out of the soil.

5/ Do I need to worry about the run off PH and if so what should it be? or should I just concentrate on the PH of what I put in.

6/ I have bought some calcium chloride crystals, would it be a good idea to foliar spray the leaves with this or maybe add some to the new top soil? Many leaves have brown spots.

7/ How should I moniter the PH so I can get it right for the roots? Check the run off?

Sorryfor all the questions but I dont want to mess it up any further.
I really appreciate your advice, you have saved me lots of stressful time researching.
Thanks again buddy.

 

[goingtoguano]

I don't want to jump in in front of @oldskol4evr as I am sure he is much more knowledgeable but, I use a ppm meter to make sure the water I am using is low in dissolved solids/minerals/elements to begin with. If your water is high ppm to begin with, it'll just make things a lot harder to target a certain element because it is full of stuff already. Also, If you just want to give it basically-straight water, you will want some that is low PPM.

 

[45North]

As soon as I read miracle grow I know exactly what ur problem is, miracle grow contains it's own food thus when u fed ur plants u burned them, buy fox farm, run do not walk from miracle grow its shit & only good 4 houseplants + those assholes put sodium in there shit, as 4 your plant flush long and hard & don't feed, I don't know what will happen if u add flowering agent most likely burn your plant again, I'm sorry friend but that's how you learn 2 grow by your mistakes, if you need help ask SNOLEPERD I will be glad to help you in any way possible. SNOLEPERD

Miracle NO!

 

[oldskol4evr]

question 1,your talking about the earth bags right,yes you can just more watering,you want a fluffy soil,but not to fluffy,them roots do all the magic above,air with moisture a good thing,i never liked the bags cause in the outdoor heat they cook and i cant keep my tomato cool enough to keep from splitting
#2 that is correct if your running higher ppm just add enough nutrient to get your number depending on stage of growth after you mix every thing ,check ph ,then adjust that to what you need it to be,i used lemon juice for years to drop my ph
#3you can but be careful,i use individal packs ,fulvic feed even with water,humic ,you can go over board,so i use it every 3 weeks
#4compation,you gonna have to let um dry out a bit,watch the leaves,when they droop and probally are now,lol,but ya when they perk up and try to drop back down,start your feed again,with that time release hard to say,never flush soil bro,your fixing to find out
#5what goes in,runoff is more of a control for coco growers and soiless mixs,with soil any runoff is going to have sand silt and clays ,that will just send you false readings ,if you dig
#6 you talking epsome salt? if so yes you can foiler it,just as a rescue type thing if desperate,you got flowers right?
#7 check your ph at watering or feeding ,down the top,,im a give you a little tip,in containers up to say 3 gal,if you put a coffe filter in the bottom it will still drain just slower were the soil has no other choice but to be wet,and the great thing ,is if you are running wet,helps keep knats from getting in your pots

 

[GT21]

I have made whats looking to be a catastrophic mistake and wonder if anyone can help with some damage control.

I have used for my Miracle gro for my soil (peat free compost and enriched multi purpose. Both have slow release nutrients.) they are mixed very approximately 50/50 but varying degrees in each pot.


They seemed to do really well during the vegetative stage but as they have gone into flowering there are various problems appearing which seem to be getting worse as time goes by.


The first signs of trouble appeared after I started to feed them in the flowering stage, this appeared in deformed leaves in the new growth in some plants. These plants looked healthy and dark green with just deformity and maybe some stunted growth.

The others have been gradually getting slightly more pale in color and have now started to display brown spots on some leaves, generally higher on the plant. I will include pictures both at the end of this post.

I have looked at the brown spots under a microscope and cannot see any bugs. The brown spots seem to be mostly inn the gap between the veins.


I have done hours of research until I realized that the soil might be the issue. I have stopped feeding them as I did not want to over feed them if the soil is already feeding them. I am watering correctly as far as I know, typically every third day when the pots are light and the soil is coming away from the pot at the top. I water till there is slight run off and then remove the run off from the tray under the pot.

I have just checked the run off and it is ph5, the water I was using was tap water and was ph of 7.1.

I was using ph paper at first but now have a pen. I would like to know if the run off ph is important?

I was checking my ph after the fert was added.

I have a dirt cheap meter that supposedly checks the light levels/moisture and soil ph but it seems wildly inaccurate, reads ph7ish in soil.


There are leaves turning yellow at the underside of the plant and falling off and the brown spotted leaves at the top seem to be easy to pluck off.


I am using HPS lights 600w at the correct height.


Pots are fairly large, 5 gallon I think.


I fed with soil grow nutrients during vegetative stage and switched to soil bloom when switched to flowering. I stopped this after noticing the deformity in some plants and slight loss of color in others with no deformity after first soil bloom application.


The environment is within temp and recommended moisture levels, 20-30deg cel and 40-60% moist.


I have recently been made redundant and spent the last of my money on all this set up and am getting fairly concerned with the situation. I would greatly appreciate any and all advice on how to limp to the end as best I can. I have done a heck of a lot of research but this seems to be an unusual problem. The only information I repeatedly find is, don’t use miracle gro. Its the only thing I didn’t research at the beginning but probably the worst mistake I could have made.


Please let me know if you need any further information that would help with a diagnosis. Thank you.

You probably did not rinse the soil long enough and burnt the piss out of your plants... In mg you have to just use water for a long time to cool off the soil. This is not soil specific... It happens to a lot of ppl and a lot of soils...when you feed the minimum the plant will tell you what it needs... If you just pour shit in a plant... Youll give it diabetes.... And i bet your runoff ph is WAY OFF

 

[Dunge]

i cant keep my tomato cool enough to keep from splitting

I have been working under the model that splitting is the result of allowing a period of low water to shrink the fruit ever so slightly, creasing the skin, which then yields when re-inflated.
You have a root heat model?
Perhaps root heat is at the root of the low water pressure?

 

[Snoleperd]

Hi oldskol4ever, thank you for your time and information, you have made me feel a lot better about being able to get to the end. I got some hope back.
I have ordered a ppm/ec pen and read up on the hanna chart. I am a bit confused and wondered if you would mind answering a few questions so I can buy the rest of the things you suggested.

1/ Would a tomato grow bag be ok to use for the top soil or should I buy some soil specifically for cannabis from the cannabis grow shop?

2/ You mention checking the ppm of my water, is this so that I can mix chemical nutrients accurately?
I thought you meant at the end of your post that I should not use chemical additives at all and just get the PH corrected so that the miracle gro and the new top soil can feed the plant with no additives?

3/ I have found some fulvic acid and humic acid to buy that are already pre mixed together and cheaper than buying separate, is it ok to use this or should I buy them separately?

4/ Can you tell me what PH I should water at considering My run off was PH5 or will the fulvic/humic take care of this? Unfortunately I flushed them thoroughly before I saw your reply, 30 liters fresh water per pot. This brought the run off PH up too 5.9 but may have washed some nutrients out of the soil.

5/ Do I need to worry about the run off PH and if so what should it be? or should I just concentrate on the PH of what I put in.

6/ I have bought some calcium chloride crystals, would it be a good idea to foliar spray the leaves with this or maybe add some to the new top soil? Many leaves have brown spots.

7/ How should I moniter the PH so I can get it right for the roots? Check the run off?

Sorryfor all the questions but I dont want to mess it up any further.
I really appreciate your advice, you have saved me lots of stressful time researching.
Thanks again buddy.