How To Maximize Results In A Sealed Grow Room Environment

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Judaz

Judaz

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I'm socal but at elevation,low 30s for winter,highs 100+ for a few months summer.
I grow whatever I feel like at the time,usually 3 or 4 strains at a time,12-20 plants.Dialing a room for one strain wouldn't work for me,I like variety.

Seems like you are in the high desert environment. I have a friend running the same setup like I do in Lancaster and he rarely uses a dehumidifier this way. Your best bet is to find the happy medium for multiple strains. What you maybe doing is fine if you are happy with the results. I grow 1 strain per room and I tend to manage the micro climate of the room to cater to what my strain is happy to be in. Like I've mentioned on the thread. A complete sealed grow room will give you good results but if your goal is to maximize your results for a sealed room for your given strain then you are better tweaking the environment like I have to dial in the micro climate as best as possible for your given area.
 
Judaz

Judaz

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You had me sucked in until the pictures

The swerve reference kinda started the alarm

None the less great thread idea

Keep in mind that I'm running the original og cut from the mid 90's it's a super finicky strain that normally puts off small buds. It's an old clone and hitting weight and getting the nugs to grow big like all these newer og cuts has been a challenge.
 
Judaz

Judaz

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Some final thoughts for this thread. Based on the research that I have done, sealed grow rooms are the way to go but can be finicky sometimes depending on the materials that they are built with and the equipment used to manage it. Remember that you are attempting to recreate nature through an artificial environment that uses high CO2 levels. Even though your room is sealed the micro climate created in different rooms built across different cities in different places around the world play a major role in the development of the Cannabis strain that you are running. I can even go as far as saying that my og kush formula that worked in sealed room A did not work as well in sealed room B given the same strain. So there is adjustments to be made there as well. In simple terms I always aim to keep the ppm in and ppm runoff at balance. Your plant will uptake the nutes depending on the exact conditions that it is in. So watch out for those 2 numbers. So how did I stumble on a this hybrid system and later confirmed it with some of the master old school growers of the SFV.

Years ago when I started creating sealed room environments, I was runnin hood systems on hortilux bulbs. I would avg 1.75-2 pounds a light on my og kush. On this one particular room that was built in a sealed garage, I had to place the intake part of my 2 way split system in my veg room that was next to my flower room in the garage. Normally I would put the indoor part of the split system inside the grow room to have a fully enclosed system with no air exchange but this time I had no room in my flower room so I was forced to put it in my veg room. My veg room had a fresh air intake. And the air of the flower room would be blown from the intake handler in the veg into the flower room through a duct and it would be returned back to the veg on the bottom left side of the blower sort of creating an upside down u pattern for the air flow in the flower room. I had to carve a hole and literally connect the veg and flower environments together on the opposite side of the AC blower on the lower left side of the room where there was the closet space of room next to the garage. I put a filter mesh in the hole that connected both rooms to filter any bug problems like fungus nats that had developed one time in the flower room to protect my veg. The CO2 enriched air from the flower room would mix with the fresh air in the veg and be thrown back into the flower room. I also had a very rapid growing veg from this mixing of airs. Bam I pulled my biggest harvests and best quality that I have ever grown. I would avg 2.5 a light on hoods of some of the best rated og kush grown in The Valley. They would call my og the private reserve. The PR. Sold as the best og for each store. I now renamed
It the Kula Kush.
 
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Judaz

Judaz

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Updates: HUGE BREAKTHROUGH for this thread. "Flower Rooms On Crac"

I finally figured out why I'm getting better results in my hybrid sealed rooms versus complete sealed room with no air exchange. Back in the day I ran a 12 hood grow in a small office space. I kid you not. I grew the biggest buds that I have ever seen on my og kush strain with no c02. The top colas were like small footballs. I learned that by flushing them more in the latter weeks, would keep the nugs growing bigger but made them finish a little later usually 10 weeks instead of 9 with CO2. I would pull 2.25 per hood without a single drop of CO2 in this room and no fresh air exchange. Just a constant moving exhaust fan. I didnt know as much as I know now so I just labeled that grow room as the freak room. Now since I didn't use CO2 the nugs were way bigger but not as dense as grown with CO2. Definitely had bag appeal. And would always get compliments for my big og nugs. After moving to CO2 nugs weren't that big but they were so dense so the weight was comparable.

I've been thinking about that building and I remember that the AC system we used was the AC system of the building. We didn't I stall one there to save money. This whole time I was under the impression that I was running a split system there. So I took a trip out there today to see what AC system I was using there that created sugar huge nugs and weight like running CO2 without CO2. I thought maybe the brand was the keye. To make a long story short. There was no mini split there. It was a commercial roof top unit. Known as an RTU. It's a 15,000 dollar AC that is way more energy Efficient than a typical split system.

After googling how these systems work I found out that they recirculate the air in the room through an intake inside the room and then cools down the air up on the roof as it's a stand alone unit. So I found out that it not only recirculates the air but actually mixes the return air with about 25% new fresh air to deliver the cold and dehumidified air into the room. Eureka
That's when the light bulb went on and I knew why that first hybrid room that I stumbled upon (read my prev post on this thread) created those awesome results. Because the air flow design that I had created mimicked the way and RTU AC system works. By mixing fresh air and recirculated air together and running that back into the intake handler.

Now get this I just found a brand new article of these new growers hitting 4 to 5 pounds a light using a new AC system known as the crac system. Also
Known as a computer room air conditioning. Very expensive but top of the line in helping create a very stable environment for computer servers. Literally government shit and big companies use these fuckers. it ends up being that this AC system work very similar to an comercial RTU system and it mixes fresh air with the recirculated air of the room back to the room. The only difference is that they are so precise that you can dial them in so well that you're temp and humidity stay constant and do not fluctuate. Read the article on the new new technique of growing with these systems that use fresh air to pull 4 to 5 pounds per light on a consistent basis. The article is called flower rooms on crac.

So what does injecting fresh air do for the plant? It helps keep the indoor environment less stressful by correcting micro deficiencies in the environment that are outside the realm of our normal sealed room environment indicators. That's why you hear many growers talking about injectinh fresh air and phantom problems in sealed rooms dissapearing. and creating the most stable environment possible is the key to more weight per light.

https://www.marijuanaventure.com/flower-rooms-crac/
 
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Judaz

Judaz

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I knew I was onto something, I explained my situation to Chris Bayley owner of jointworks consulting. They specialize in room designs. He emailed me back saying that I am right about my slow continuous fresh air exchange hypothesis.

https://www.alignable.com/tonasket-wa/jointworksconsulting-com

"specialize in designing growing operations both large and small. We source out and install cultivation equipment as well as offer specialty products like greenhouses, LED's, rosin presses, trimming machines, and breeding supplies through our affiliate, Elemental Gardener, in Tonasket Washington. We can create both operating plans and the accompanying protocols needed to stay compliant within your local jurisdiction. In short we can teach you everything from seed to sale."
 
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PharmHand

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I run a 5t York rooftop aka package unit. It came with a fitting for bringing in fresh air but I threw it away lol. It wouldn't have worked in my situation anyway it was a 90degree fitting for coming down through the roof, I've got it mounted on the ground at the end of a shipping container. It's got 16" duct running in/out from the unit. I didn't wanna put it on the roof because it would have been too obvious what I was doing haha. I do have a small exhaust in there that I put in originally just to create neg pressure to keep smell down but I agree having a small exhaust in an otherwise sealed room is the ultimate setup.

I cut a small 3" hole in the ducting on the return side as my intake and I have a 4"vortec exhaust fan that draws thru a charcoal then exits the container. I also run bottled co2 but feel the small amount lost is worth the added benefits. A 50# tank costs me 40$ to fill and lasts me 10-14days depending on where the plants at (early bloom gobbles it up -peak metabolism). Not sure if you've noticed but plants dump co2 at lights out. At another coop spot we have em completely sealed and the co2 spikes to 3k+ at lights out AND the humidity spikes. The exhaust helps w nighttime humidity too. Currently in the process of trying to install an exhaust there too....

So there's ethylene, excess humidity, excess co2 and I'm sure other vocs that the exhaust helps with. But there's also ambient nitrogen,oxygen and argon. After all the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen 21%oxygen and 1%argon and a tiny amount of co2. If you run a burner, which I feel is kind of silly- even in a big place, having an exhaust is really important because they add sulfur compounds to propane/nat gas to help identify leaks, which when burned creates sulfide compounds that can harm plants.

Plants use a decent amount of oxygen at night Ive noticed dumping your co2/humidity at night keeps the plants perky/transpiring all night boosting nutrient assimilation. In a completely sealed room the plants tend to droop at lights out. I've built/ran a lot of sealed rooms over the years too and while it isn't always convenient,I definitely feel an exhaust is a great thing to have
 
Judaz

Judaz

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I run between 11 and 17 strains all in my flower room. I've never had to baby a strain, if so it gets "da' boot"!

I wish I could do the same but when I'm running the legendary finicky clone only og kush cut from the mid 90's that was first brought to LA from Florida, I couldnt do that. Those genetics are priceless.

The truth is that it was bred to be grown outdoors and people need to dial it in indoors. That's why it does so well with fresh air
 
StandingRock

StandingRock

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I started out with a hybrid system. All the science is there to prove it. It's just not economical for most, unless you run natural gas burners like me. The cost is pennies a month. I haven't run hybrid in a while but I'm going to start it back up again to see.
 
ontheroad

ontheroad

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I'm using a hepa filter, to filter the fresh air and the next thing that I will do is run a duct from my fresh air intake and put it right next to the intake of my ac. Since I'm using a 2 way split AC system it circulates the air in the room and cools it down and also removes humidity. By putting the small fresh air intake flow next to my AC intake, this will cool down and dehumidify outside air that might be hot or humid from a day with bad weather instead of dumping that hot and or humid air on my plants, I will pass it through the AC system first.

"GrowBright high-efficiency particulate arrestance (HEPA) filters remove 99.97% of airborne particles 3 micrometers or smaller to prevent insects and other particulates such as dust, mold spores, and pollen from entering grow tents or grow roomsthrough the ventilation system."

great reading! So....on the particular design you mentioned, is this hepa intake passive or does it have a small dialed-down fan as well?
 
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happyflowers

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Great thread idea!!!

Ive had this conversation many times b4 and have ran my rm both ways "hybrid" (as u call it) and completely sealed. Ive built more grow rms than i care to admit lol....tried it both ways and must say.....i havent noticed a difference. .....that being sed as a precautionary measure the next groom i put together (next month) will have an exaust system. Fwiw i use a propane fueled co2 generator.
I must also say my personal best yield ever (4# per) was in a semi sealed rm where i had an exaust on a timer than ran for 10min every 4hrs. I did this more for scent control than anything else. the amount of co2 lost when ventilating in such a way is negligible so my rationale is why not run the exaust and avoid the potential build up of ethylene. Not to mention its easier to control the smell w a lil negative pressure.
when setting a room up this way do you have fresh air entering the room? If so what would be a good way of doing this ? thanks
 
GT21

GT21

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Seems like you are in the high desert environment. I have a friend running the same setup like I do in Lancaster and he rarely uses a dehumidifier this way. Your best bet is to find the happy medium for multiple strains. What you maybe doing is fine if you are happy with the results. I grow 1 strain per room and I tend to manage the micro climate of the room to cater to what my strain is happy to be in. Like I've mentioned on the thread. A complete sealed grow room will give you good results but if your goal is to maximize your results for a sealed room for your given strain then you are better tweaking the environment like I have to dial in the micro climate as best as possible for your given area.
Hahahah born in the AV!!!

This guy gets 4 pounds a light and likes 4 year olds...murika.
 
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m8ty

m8ty

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when setting a room up this way do you have fresh air entering the room? If so what would be a good way of doing this ? thanks
Read the thread it explains it, something about putting the fresh air in through the a/c intake to remove humidity and heat from the fresh air and using a filter to keep the bugs and spores out...
 
Gr0wTech

Gr0wTech

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If you are having high Ethylene problems, you can use a photocatalytic oxidation device. I Design plenty of CEA rooms and we usually go with the customers request. But we try not to get the rooms to 100% sealed. A little bit of breathing and enough scrubbing makes it so there is no smell, and you don't get too much Ethylene build up. But we've had customers get over 4 LB a light using the rooms we built. But usually you have to use VPD methods, and co2 tanks, or co2 bags. Strains can usually be tackled by raising or lowering the lights for those strains. More indica usually like lights further away, while sativa likes the closer light. If you can't raise or lower your lights, you need to train and plan for where you want your plants to stop growing into flower. However, we do use timers for fresh air, as the more fresh air, the more intense your cooling/humidity/co2 application has to be.

Also I would disagree an RTU is more efficient than a mini-split with variable speeds in anyway whatsoever. Hepa filters would also have to be installed after the unit. Which causes the filter to usually be clogged faster than just recirculating, and HEPA filters aren't so cheap, especially with needed usually sizes exceeding 25"x25"x2" Those are usually $150+ a piece and you'd be replacing them every 2-3 months with outside air, otherwise you'll starve your A/C of air and you'll have problems. Plus ducting is usually not necessary and we try to never use it.

This is why we usually recommend timed fresh air, with HEPA and mini splits. If that's what the customer wants. But either way, we see substantial yield increases in both styles and I haven't seen a lot of the types of problems you've explained, but maybe we're lucky?
 
Gr0wTech

Gr0wTech

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Like, what kind of pics? It's kind of hard to show a picture of plants, harvest, dry, results all at once.. So like a pic of what the canopy looks like? Consistent 4# is tough, but average is 3.5-3.8 in this first room. Some strains have hit 4.2. But some only 3 max, this is usually more pure sativas. The first two pics are the same room. The third pic is from one of our other customers that doesn't scrog at all, he hits 3+ but I don't think he's quite hit 4. They use different methods, and media, nutes and all. I mean I wouldn't know any other way to show you besides more of these kinds of pictures... But I think the idea should be pretty clear. First room is close to 100% sealed with burners, the 2nd is ~95% sealed with co2 tanks.
 
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nicolajanjak

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Like, what kind of pics? It's kind of hard to show a picture of plants, harvest, dry, results all at once.. So like a pic of what the canopy looks like? Consistent 4# is tough, but average is 3.5-3.8 in this first room. Some strains have hit 4.2. But some only 3 max, this is usually more pure sativas. The first two pics are the same room. The third pic is from one of our other customers that doesn't scrog at all, he hits 3+ but I don't think he's quite hit 4. They use different methods, and media, nutes and all. I mean I wouldn't know any other way to show you besides more of these kinds of pictures... But I think the idea should be pretty clear. First room is close to 100% sealed with burners, the 2nd is ~95% sealed with co2 tanks.

hi man

in a small room (4000w hps max) with bottled co2, exhaust is realy necessary ?
(with mini split) when i hear sealed room i hear sealed so i guess air exchange is for burners using.
thanx
 
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