Hps Vs Cmh Vs Led

[Friendlyguy]

You have to take into consideration this frendlyguy also thinks that pinching the stem on a plant to slow growth down and topping a plant are the same thing, and pinching will kill the growth tip above it because he read it on the internet somewhere... triple face palm!!! Lol!
My 285 watt quantum board led fixture beats my 315 cmh in every way hands down including canopy coverage, but he read on the internet somewhere that cmh was better... the link to the study he posted is a few yrs old also.

In hindsight they're the same! Topping just takes more of the plant off...fiming creates a super highway of nute flow throught the plant.

The light complaint you have against my opinion is all semantics...lol

Plants dont utilize all the light they recieve. What light is better? i have to say they are probably close to even..all depends on nutes, co2, light distance is a big factor so is the reflector used.....post pics! Lab test results, would be great but not nessecary, of your success with led over cmh. If you're going to talk, walk it too. ...have your led postioned at the same distance too...i would love to see it....im thinking of buying a fixture....hiesenbubble has the right idea! Love it cant wait to see the results of his comparitive study....i read a study that claims led's don't produce uv light? Wow, really?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4048233/figure/pone-0099010-g001/?report=objectonly

 

[Rootbound]

Well they are flowering it up pretty good right now.
Plants under the hps are running around 980 ppm
And plants under the cobs and cmh are running around 740 ppm.slight calcium deficiency right under the HPS below the bulbs so I upped to 7ml per gallon.
Under the cobs and cmh is around 5ml per gal.
One thing for sure the plants under 5he cobs look more full.more side growth.
Will be a very close comparison.the next run will be 1500w cobs vs 2 nanolux 1000w cmh.
View attachment 800651

Lookng great @heisenbubble ! Its a very informative thread for sure and I dont want to muddy it up by replying back to friendly as his last post sums it up for me and proves my point.
How long do you flower this strain? I have found that led is a learning curve for sure to hit the sweet spot with them. I went from hps to cmh to cob led and now quantum boards led in flower. My biggest complaint with cmh was keeping the light close enough for penetration but the radiant heat was a little much for my liking.

 

[heisen]

No worries on friendly,I think everyone makes a valid point and even a blind squirrel can find a nut.
Im making some pretty good discoveries on this grow comparison.
Light has absolutely everything to do with how intense the nutes need to be,But there is something else im missing here and i cannot get it figured out.The Cob and Cmh side are loving it at between 550 and 650 ppm
The HPS side is dropping my ppm by 100 points in 24 hours from 850 to 750.But the growth on the lower ppm side is noticeably way better.Even the scrog on that side is higher.
Im not sure why.You would think that more PPM means more growth.It has to do something with the spectrum is all i can guess.Fuller spectrum is encouraging more growth with less required nutrients.
I bumped the HPS side up to 950 hoping it levels off but they still act like they are starving.cal browning directly under the bulbs.,Also the growth around the edges of the HPS looks noticebly more full.So without a doubt the light intensity has to match how your feeding the plants.This will be my last run with HPS.Im going to retire this technology and move on to 1000 watt CMH and do a side by side of wifi43,wedding cake,gorilla glue,and sour dub on the next run.gonna put 3 of each on each side and compare the weights of every plant individually and the basic overall structure and look.
I think HPS is good for what it is but its throwing electricity down the toilet when im getting better results with cobbs and cmh as of the moment.\

 

[GrowGod]

No worries on friendly,I think everyone makes a valid point and even a blind squirrel can find a nut.
Im making some pretty good discoveries on this grow comparison.
Light has absolutely everything to do with how intense the nutes need to be,But there is something else im missing here and i cannot get it figured out.The Cob and Cmh side are loving it at between 550 and 650 ppm
The HPS side is dropping my ppm by 100 points in 24 hours from 850 to 750.But the growth on the lower ppm side is noticeably way better.Even the scrog on that side is higher.
Im not sure why.You would think that more PPM means more growth.It has to do something with the spectrum is all i can guess.Fuller spectrum is encouraging more growth with less required nutrients.
I bumped the HPS side up to 950 hoping it levels off but they still act like they are starving.cal browning directly under the bulbs.,Also the growth around the edges of the HPS looks noticebly more full.So without a doubt the light intensity has to match how your feeding the plants.This will be my last run with HPS.Im going to retire this technology and move on to 1000 watt CMH and do a side by side of wifi43,wedding cake,gorilla glue,and sour dub on the next run.gonna put 3 of each on each side and compare the weights of every plant individually and the basic overall structure and look.
I think HPS is good for what it is but its throwing electricity down the toilet when im getting better results with cobbs and cmh as of the moment.\

Do you have a link to the 1000 watt cmh’s? I thought they only came in 315’s or 630 de or two bulb..

 

[heisen]

Do you have a link to the 1000 watt cmh’s? I thought they only came in 315’s or 630 de or two bulb..

If you havnt seem them yet you are gonna shit,There the new nanolux 1000's,
remote controlled,sunrise sunset the whole nine.Comes with a 1000W double ended CMH.them things are beast.Growers house has them in stock.I already have 2 ready to roll when this comparison is finished.

 

[MidwestToker]

No worries on friendly,I think everyone makes a valid point and even a blind squirrel can find a nut.
Im making some pretty good discoveries on this grow comparison.
Light has absolutely everything to do with how intense the nutes need to be,But there is something else im missing here and i cannot get it figured out.The Cob and Cmh side are loving it at between 550 and 650 ppm
The HPS side is dropping my ppm by 100 points in 24 hours from 850 to 750.But the growth on the lower ppm side is noticeably way better.Even the scrog on that side is higher.
Im not sure why.You would think that more PPM means more growth.It has to do something with the spectrum is all i can guess.Fuller spectrum is encouraging more growth with less required nutrients.
I bumped the HPS side up to 950 hoping it levels off but they still act like they are starving.cal browning directly under the bulbs.,Also the growth around the edges of the HPS looks noticebly more full.So without a doubt the light intensity has to match how your feeding the plants.This will be my last run with HPS.Im going to retire this technology and move on to 1000 watt CMH and do a side by side of wifi43,wedding cake,gorilla glue,and sour dub on the next run.gonna put 3 of each on each side and compare the weights of every plant individually and the basic overall structure and look.
I think HPS is good for what it is but its throwing electricity down the toilet when im getting better results with cobbs and cmh as of the moment.\

My grows are always less than 500 PPM feeds under my HIDs and they love it. That why I was telling you my experience was different between the HIDs and LEDs.
I just pulled 35 ounces from my 750 DE in my 4x8 space with nutrient feeds less than 500 ppm (1.0ec).

 

[Rcubed]

Magnetics are noisy.. But run FOREVER its like the old carbed truck you can buy part at auto zone for it... Vs the new crap with 11 computers hahaha

Yep, that's why I keep this one around.

 

[heisen]

My grows are always less than 500 PPM feeds under my HIDs and they love it. That why I was telling you my experience was different between the HIDs and LEDs.
I just pulled 35 ounces from my 750 DE in my 4x8 space with nutrient feeds less than 500 ppm (1.0ec).

Sealed room Co2 cause it matters alot?

 

[heisen]

yeah 750 over a 4x8 they will be extremely light feeders for sure.Im running 2000 watts over a 4x10 and they are eating it up,3 gallons a day

 

[MidwestToker]

yeah 750 over a 4x8 they will be extremely light feeders for sure.Im running 2000 watts over a 4x10 and they are eating it up,3 gallons a day

Except the same nutrient formula with just 2 plants under the 750DE and it still works like a charm and at 18" from the bulb. No signs of deficiencies even directly under the bulb.

I've spent the last 40+ years growing these plants so I've had a lot of time to experiment with nutrient profiles and my findings always come back that these plants don't require near the nutrient levels most people or nutrient manufacturers would have you believe. If your experiencing trouble with a nutrient why throw a higher EC of every nutrient in the mix when it might only be a cal, mag or P that is lacking in the profile.

 

[heisen]

Except the same nutrient formula with just 2 plants under the 750DE and it still works like a charm and at 18" from the bulb. No signs of deficiencies even directly under the bulb.View attachment 800714 View attachment 800715 I've spent the last 40+ years growing these plants so I've had a lot of time to experiment with nutrient profiles and my findings always come back that these plants don't require near the nutrient levels most people or nutrient manufacturers would have you believe. If your experiencing trouble with a nutrient why throw a higher EC of every nutrient in the mix when it might only be a cal, mag or P that is lacking in the profile.

Whats your medium?

 

[MidwestToker]

No, Co2. I feel that it's added cost and maintenance not worth it in my gardens when i consistently pull 1-1.6 grams a watt without it's use.
Here is some of the glues that came out of this last harvest.

 

[MidwestToker]

Whats your medium?

Coir.

 

[heisen]

Im in RDWC so i have real time access to PPM levels and PH.Im not sure how you can get a real time figure of your ppm in coir,runoff can give you an idea but you get a ceartian level of buildup over time.
Co2 will increase yields and also puts a bigger demand on the nutrient needs.I have my systems dialed in to the T and never use more than i have to but the TDS meter dont lie.I know when my plants need more or less.
Add 800 PPM of co2 to your setup and you will be dealing with all kinds of micro deficiency's you've never seen before.I take my plants from roots to full blown scrog in 3 weeks.

 

[heisen]

I'm managing 24 plants in sync,that are super hungry.to many variables that have to line up to get it right.co2 levels,light,nutrients,oxygen to the roots it's all there.its like a big ass puzzle you have to keep putting together when one thing changes another thing changes.knowing what to look for and constantly looking for any thing that needs to move in one direction or the other.its easy once it's all dialed in,but to manage this type of setup not knowing what your getting into lol.

 

[heisen]

No, Co2. I feel that it's added cost and maintenance not worth it in my gardens when i consistently pull 1-1.6 grams a watt without it's use.
Here is some of the glues that came out of this last harvest.View attachment 800720 View attachment 800721

Also you have to have some type of air exchange not to need co2.im in a sealed room.i have no outside co2.my plants will suck the co2 down to 100 ppm in 30 minutes with the lights on.i have to have supplement co2.At atmospheric levels it's a breeze.things dont get tricky until you get up above 700 than you have to start watching close

 

[MidwestToker]

Im in RDWC so i have real time access to PPM levels and PH.Im not sure how you can get a real time figure of your ppm in coir,runoff can give you an idea but you get a ceartian level of buildup over time.
Co2 will increase yields and also puts a bigger demand on the nutrient needs.I have my systems dialed in to the T and never use more than i have to but the TDS meter dont lie.I know when my plants need more or less.
Add 800 PPM of co2 to your setup and you will be dealing with all kinds of micro deficiency's you've never seen before.I take my plants from roots to full blown scrog in 3 weeks.

Most of my veg time is 21-25 days (dependent on strain) from rooted cuttings. You prefer scrog where I prefer sog . I think your an excellent grower, so I'm not doubting you or questioning your growing style. I'm just trying to figure out why, even now at 800 ppms my LED plants are struggling over my other plants.

 

[heisen]

Most of my veg time is 21-25 days (dependent on strain) from rooted cuttings. You prefer scrog where I prefer sog . I think your an excellent grower, so I'm not doubting you or questioning your growing style. I'm just trying to figure out why, even now at 800 ppms my LED plants are struggling over my other plants.

Its either a deficiency or to much one or the other.Experience will tell you which direction to go,In DWC if my PH goes up and ppm is dropping i know there absorbing the micronutrients in the water causing the ppm to drop.If the PPM is rising or the ph is falling than its the opposite and needs to be dropped.I know its just right when it stays around the same and PH levels off.Finding the correct ratios is a little trial and shit load of error.
Im thinking your PPM is to high for your LED setup but only you know how your plants look.The way they look can tell us ALOT

 

[MidwestToker]

Pics,

This last are 2 vegging plants. the right was switched back to HIDs a week ago.

 

[heisen]

that is a definite calcium and phosperus definciency,Maybe agitated by a temp drop?LED runs cooler so its possible the temps are a little low.Definitely deficiency and not an excess.
Only affecting the leaves that are exposed to the light.Maybe feed a little more of the Part B and up your calmag for sure.
I hate the low calcium they put in calmag bottles so i end up adding straight calcium in or spraying the leaves with a calcium mix and will clear that shit right up.To much mag will fuck shit up in a heartbeat.