Interesting Info On Led Growing

[Shawnery]

They have temperature pics of leaf temp under different lights in one one of the links. Not sure how you or anyone can argue that data. Or is it that you are arguing that it doesn't matter.

Check out both links and see the data.

 

[kansabis]

My temps peak at 88,they are usually more constant around 82-84 and when later in flowering I try to not let em get above 84.

 

[DGP]

88f is a bit high for led ime,but with co2 88 to 90plus would be fine.i run 4 or 5f higher under my setups and they seem to grow as they did under his minus the extra large I used to get under hid. Surface temps will effect inner leaf temps,that's just common sense.unless you had some crazy x-ray lights you can't really raise inner temps while keeping the surface cooler lol. So basically leaf temps are just leaf temps,and ir lighting will heat up most anything it hits including leaves,walls,floors,water tanks ect.hps=more heat LED=more gooder haha.

I am running at about 83-84F since switching to 3500K COB's. It does save me on AC and the plants seem to do well. Don't have CO2 but would like to add it soon.

Dee

 

[heisen]

They have temperature pics of leaf temp under different lights in one one of the links. Not sure how you or anyone can argue that data. Or is it that you are arguing that it doesn't matter.

Check out both links and see the data.

Not saying the temps are not different,I'm telling as an experienced grower that runs multiple lights and clones in the same room the plants dont give a possums pecker when everything else is in check.

 

[heisen]

Here are my next run of cuts
Wifi43 under cobs and wifi 43 under cmh that emits more radiant heat.absolutely no difference whatsoever,maybe the cob is a little more fuller,
Double ended CMH

Cob

 

[heisen]

No offense shawnery but I feel like I'm going back to the first grade when ever I get involved in your threads.i realize your trying to learn and experiment,these colas were taken under cobs and cmh and I saw no difference at all with the same room ambient temp.
Maybe If someone was on the low side of the acceptable ambient temps with LED may see a difference but I think any room above 77 with any kind of light is good to go.

Cobs

CMH

 

[Aqua Man]

I think what he is getting at is the ideal temp of say 78F (not claiming this is ideal but it is referenced a lot) has been interpreted by hobbiests inaccurately. In most studies they use leaf temperature not ambient air temp. A lot of ppl have just cross referenced them as equal and they are not. The temperature of the leaf is generally cooler due to the effect of evaporation. Now to add to this UV increases the internal temperature of the leaf so fixtures that have UV will also have a higher leaf temperature. So with LED's that do not incorporate UV the leaf temperature would be cooler with the same ambient air temperature under a different fixture. Thus you need to increase your ambient air temps to reach the same leaf temps.. All things are not created equal and this is why ambient temps are not as good of a measurement as leaf temps. Things like fans and transpiration rate also affect this and can literally cause your leaf temp to be about 10F cooler than another grow room with the same ambient temps.

Is that what you were trying to say @Shawnery if not sorry for my assumption.

@Shawnery get something like this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauk...n-Infrared-10-1-Thermometer-2267-20/206260202 or a cheap version will do and you will take all the guess work out. It will help you spot where you may need more airflow etc. You will want a nice even temps throughout the canopy

 

[Shawnery]

PERFECT!

Can always count on Heisenberg to offer a backhanded compliment. Luckily other peoples opinions of what my actions or words mean don't influence who I really am.

Heisenberg, I feel like you've made up your mind who I am and your comment would seem to support that theory. I'm just trying to learn, br helpful and a meaningful part of this community, sounds pretty good to me?

 

[heisen]

I think what he is getting at is the ideal temp of say 78F (not claiming this is ideal but it is referenced a lot) has been interpreted by hobbiests inaccurately. In most studies they use leaf temperature not ambient air temp. A lot of ppl have just cross referenced them as equal and they are not. The temperature of the leaf is generally cooler due to the effect of evaporation. Now to add to this UV increases the internal temperature of the leaf so fixtures that have IR will also have a higher leaf temperature. So with LED's that do not incorporate IR the leaf temperature would be cooler with the same ambient air temperature under a different fixture. Thus you need to increase your ambient air temps to reach the same leaf temps.. All things are not created equal and this is why ambient temps are not as good of a measurement as leaf temps. Things like fans and transpiration rate also affect this and can literally cause you to be about 10F cooler than the ideal leaf temps.

Is that what you were trying to say @Shawnery if not sorry for my assumption.

I think what he is getting at is the ideal temp of say 78F (not claiming this is ideal but it is referenced a lot) has been interpreted by hobbiests inaccurately. In most studies they use leaf temperature not ambient air temp. A lot of ppl have just cross referenced them as equal and they are not. The temperature of the leaf is generally cooler due to the effect of evaporation. Now to add to this UV increases the internal temperature of the leaf so fixtures that have UV will also have a higher leaf temperature. So with LED's that do not incorporate UV the leaf temperature would be cooler with the same ambient air temperature under a different fixture. Thus you need to increase your ambient air temps to reach the same leaf temps.. All things are not created equal and this is why ambient temps are not as good of a measurement as leaf temps. Things like fans and transpiration rate also affect this and can literally cause your leaf temp to be about 10F cooler than another grow room with the same ambient temps.

Is that what you were trying to say @Shawnery if not sorry for my assumption.

@Shawnery get something like this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauk...n-Infrared-10-1-Thermometer-2267-20/206260202 or a cheap version will do and you will take all the guess work out. It will help you spot where you may need more airflow etc. You will want a nice even temps throughout the canopy

He isnt trying to do anything,I think the purpose of this thread is to bring awareness to all the LED growers that we are not doing it right,Maybe we need to rebuild and design our perfectly working grow rooms to better suit the needs of half ass internet articles and reinvent our methods.This dude has about 20 post on everything from bug control to redesigning a bucket system that works perfect to begin with.

 

[Shawnery]

If your running your lights 10 degrees cooler than it should be than your environment isn't perfect and that's not up for debate.


1000W HPS versus LED Comparison
Platinum XL-U LED at 24" (750W)
75 °F ambient room temperature 84 °F ambient room temperature

High Pressure Sodium at 24" (1000W)
75 °F ambient room temperature 84 °F ambient room temperature

 

[Shawnery]

This isn't opinion heisenberg and you're a d***!

 

[heisen]

PERFECT!

Can always count on Heisenberg to offer a backhanded compliment. Luckily other peoples opinions of what my actions or words mean don't influence who I really am.

Heisenberg, I feel like you've made up your mind who I am and your comment would seem to support that theory. I'm just trying to learn, br helpful and a meaningful part of this community, sounds pretty good to me?

Naw man i didnt make up anything until i see you ask a bunch of bozo questions and than about 2 pages into the thread you become the leading authority on the subject offering advice and answering your own questions with your own advice.I apologize in advance if i sound harsh but this seems to always be the case in every one of your threads,Going back to you telling that kid to put his non recirculating reservoirs outside of his tent with ice bottles in them and to load up his buckets with H202,
You have had an issue with me since that very day,thats all it is to it.

 

[Aqua Man]

PERFECT!

Can always count on Heisenberg to offer a backhanded compliment. Luckily other peoples opinions of what my actions or words mean don't influence who I really am.

Heisenberg, I feel like you've made up your mind who I am and your comment would seem to support that theory. I'm just trying to learn, br helpful and a meaningful part of this community, sounds pretty good to me?

He is a very solid grower judging from what I have seen. I have learned a lot from several of his threads. Sometimes when things aren't clear in a post it can confuse ppl and we all react differently. Trust me you can learn a lot from his threads. I'm new also and i get it's a lot to take in and try to put everything you read into perspective as well as separate fact from the wealth of shit info out there. It ain't easy just have to keep gaingin experience, reading and asking... only ways to learn.

 

[heisen]

If your running your lights 10 degrees cooler than it should be than your environment isn't perfect and that's not up for debate.


1000W HPS versus LED Comparison
Platinum XL-U LED at 24" (750W)
75 °F ambient room temperature 84 °F ambient room temperature

High Pressure Sodium at 24" (1000W)
75 °F ambient room temperature 84 °F ambient room temperature

Your comparing a cheap Chinese garbage LED to a HPS,
The jury rest its case your Honor,Watt for Watt the differences in heat is a big fat ass 0.a watt of electricity from a 1000 watt HPS bulb will produce the same as a 1000 watt dildo.only difference is the radiant heat from the HPS but on good quality LED the differences are negligble,the heat is just spread out.
Sorry but im gonna have to ask you to hit Google again and bring back some more facts.

 

[Aqua Man]

He isnt trying to do anything,I think the purpose of this thread is to bring awareness to all the LED growers that we are not doing it right,Maybe we need to rebuild and design our perfectly working grow rooms to better suit the needs of half ass internet articles and reinvent our methods.This dude has about 20 post on everything from bug control to redesigning a bucket system that works perfect to begin with.

Once your room is dialed in its dialed in... measuring equipment or method can be way off but it doesn't change that. If you go by ambient its grow room specific, if you go by leaf temp its a lot more universal. Neither is wrong.

 

[heisen]

Once your room is dialed in its dialed in... measuring equipment or method can be way off but it doesn't change that. If you go by ambient its grow room specific, if you go by leaf temp its a lot more universal. Neither is wrong.

Nope,a thermometer a foot away from a CMH can get to 95 degrees,Doesnt mean my plants are 95 degrees,I like to place several thermometers and get the average temp of the room away from any radiant heat.But a good quality LED puts out enough of its own,Dude is posting numbers from a platinim LED that pulls about 400 watts from the wall and comparing to a 1000Watt HPS.there is just no comparison.every LED fixture is wattage dependant on how much heat they generate.I have a cheap ass Mars Hydro 900 that was given to me for free as a tester model and it puts out nothing for heat,I would only compare that light to a 400W HID because the Mars pulls around 300 watts from the wall.
I would be willing to bet that 1000Watts of Cobs or QB's will put out almost as much radiant heat as a 1000W HPS but as far as ambiant heat they are almost identical.
A watt of electricity still generates around 3.4 BTU's of heat no matter what

 

[Aqua Man]

Nope,a thermometer a foot away from a CMH can get to 95 degrees,Doesnt mean my plants are 95 degrees,I like to place several thermometers and get the average temp of the room away from any radiant heat.But a good quality LED puts out enough of its own,Dude is posting numbers from a platinim LED that pulls about 400 watts from the wall and comparing to a 1000Watt HPS.there is just no comparison.every LED fixture is wattage dependant on how much heat they generate.I have a cheap ass Mars Hydro 900 that was given to me for free as a tester model and it puts out nothing for heat,I would only compare that light to a 400W HID because the Mars pulls around 300 watts from the wall.
I would be willing to bet that 1000Watts of Cobs or QB's will put out almost as much radiant heat as a 1000W HPS but as far as ambiant heat they are almost identical.
A watt of electricity still generates around 3.4 BTU's of heat no matter what

Agree with all of this. But what i mean is if you take a measurement in your grow room that is dialed in at the same place each time it doesn't matter if your thermometer is out 100F if you are getting that temp same place and everything else remains the same that's your sweet spot but it it specific to that equipment and that room setup. If you do it with leaf temp its much more universal to pass on information to others or setup a new grow room that is not exactly the same.

I agree like you said when your room is dialed in its dialed in and you should not change the way you measure variables.

I just re read that. I was not saying if you put your thermometer by the CMH at 95F you leaves would be 95F. I was saying the opposite.

 

[Aqua Man]

Thinking a little more about this. I would assume this could be part of the reason ppl have differing results/reviews when using VPD as a guide. I believe this should be used with leaf temp which is almost always lower than ambient temps unless you are UV burning your plants and in some cases almost 10F lower. This could be why some ppl report mold when following it as that would put them with significantly lower temps with higher humidity. Something I think most growers miss.

 

[Shawnery]

Heisenberg knows way more than I will ever learn as has every other grower that has roasted in similar ways to my posts.

I like to look at what appears to be the normal mode of doing things and looking at it backwards or upside down. Most of what I consider is probably poppycock but I'll be sure to blindly come across a gem or two as I believe I might have here.


Just because you know more than someone doesn't mean you have to act like it all the time!

 

[Shawnery]

It doesn't matter if it's cheap Chinese or not all that matters is if it supplies the ir that other types might.

It has to do with the ir wavelength and that's it. Its has nothing to do with anything else you are comparing.

I read every word of all the articles as I'm sure you all have as well.