Legion Of Living Organic Soil

  • Thread starter Organikz
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
OldSmokie76

OldSmokie76

1,110
263
nematodes bro for fungus gnat control try anything in the order of this genus. Heterorhabditis indica

Bee keepers use them to combat fungus gnats and other critters in their hives believe it or not!!!!

Here is a great supply house for live nematodes. And yes they work. Since incorporating nematodes I haven't seen a fugus gnat in years. I take that back. I see em in peoples grows that don't use em.!!!!!! :D

https://www.arbico-organics.com/category/beneficial-nematodes
Nemos..... Live thru a soil recycle? Will they survive adding fresh amendments and cooking of soil mix?
 
Organikz

Organikz

3,562
263
Crab Meal...it is clutch to success

I felt the need to touch base on this subject because I talked to a guy who gave me better understanding. Do 1 cup per cubic foot vs 1/2. What it does in allows culturing of exoskeleton digesting bacteria. You wont ever see insect issues if you dont skimp on the crustacean meal. Do it! I learned my lesson. I had to spinosad the hell out of my soil to wipe out these water beetles. They weren't damaging plants besides potentially getting stuck in flowers when flying. Glad I got a handle on them before flowers started popping.
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
2,551
263
Do you take temps of your soil mix guys?
What is a nice temp for cannabis in your experience?
I just ammended my soil for the next grow, 2 days ago, it is at 28C and ambient temp is about 20C.

Cooking mix
30L Light-Mix
25L Bat-mix
Some Coco-Mix (5L maybe)
8 cup homeblend (bat guano, wormcastings, neem meal, GK complete organics)
1 1/2 cup spirulina
1 cup ground nettle seeds
2 cups diatomaceous earth
2 1/2 cups of activated carbon (charged with alfalfa, banana and something i call “reveg” fpe, biobizz alg-a-mic, bloom, topmax, epsom salt)
(the biobizz products is because i already had it from prior grows, so no need to waste it, probably not going to spend any money on bottled products anymore)
Pumice
Zeolite
Lavastones
Perlite
 
Last edited:
OldSmokie76

OldSmokie76

1,110
263
Do you take temps of your soil mix guys?
What is a nice temp for cannabis in your experience?
I just ammended my soil for the next grow, 2 days ago, it is at 28C and ambient temp is about 20C.

Cooking mix
30L Light-Mix
25L Bat-mix
Some Coco-Mix (5L maybe)
8 cup homeblend (bat guano, wormcastings, neem meal, GK complete organics)
1 1/2 cup spirulina
1 cup ground nettle seeds
2 cups diatomaceous earth
2 1/2 cups of activated carbon (charged with alfalfa, banana and something i call “reveg” fpe, biobizz alg-a-mic, bloom, topmax, epsom salt)
(the biobizz products is because i already had it from prior grows, so no need to waste it, probably not going to spend any money on bottled products anymore)
Pumice
Zeolite
Lavastones
Perlite
While cooking or while in grow container?
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
2,551
263
@OldSmokie76
I meant when you fill the pots with it. What is a good temp? Did you guys have ever taken temp readings from the root zone. A little bit of heat is good or bad? I mean 28 is way too hot for roots i think, but what is a good temp to say, ok its ready :) should i use it once it is at ambient temp, i read like 24-25C is good for rootzone of tomatoes and peppers and etc. and what i did with my current grow is, i just ammended a used mix right after harvesting from the same mix and didn’t cook, even 1 day. Haven’t taken temp reading but if it was anything like this mix, it must have heated up the roots. They truly seemed happy with that.
 
Last edited:
OldSmokie76

OldSmokie76

1,110
263
I've never given much thought to the temps of the soil in my containers. Warmer than 65°f, no warmer than 75°f. Maybe? Sounds like a good range. I know there are some specifics out there for root zone temps. I can't be certain at the moment. You're talking C and I'm talking F. Too much math for me right now. Lol.
Not sure if that helps. I'm just rambling. My only suggestion would be allowing your freshly amended soil to sit for at least a month. My understanding that doing so allows the biology of the soil to get started. A little moisture and store it in a container for about a month.
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
2,551
263
Biology is active right now (putting out some heat) and my current plants seemed really happy with it (both with the biology and the warmth).
Yeah i get that 70-75F is good for them but just wanted to know if you guys take temps and whatnot and if you had a specific temp you prefer and had good results with?
28 degrees celcius is 82.4 fahrenheit.
I have never monitored the heat so i am just lost now, no comparable data to see if the cooking process is at its optimum or not.
 
Patanjali

Patanjali

578
243
Chitin, Chitosan, Chitinase – an organic pest control arsenal

A Copy/paste from
http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51481

To most effectively use chitin you need to understand the three related compounds – Chitin, Chitosan, Chitinase

Chitin is a compound that makes up the shells of crustaceans/arthropods. Not only that, but chitin helps form the cell walls of fungi (I will share the importance of this later). And even more good news, it is a main component of the exoskeleton of insects. One thing you also need to be aware of is that it is found in the “skin” of worms.

Chitosan is a compound that is created from the breakdown of chitin. Chitosan is the product that you may find most commercially available as both a plant growth regulator and a “no risk” systematic pesticide. Note: per my current understanding most chitosan is produced using a synthetic process on an organic product, thus is not truly organic. Not only that, but if you are using it to reverse an outbreak, it may not be the best option. I will share a better option in a minute.

Chitinase is the naturally occurring enzyme that breaks chitin down into chitosan. I will repeat that point, it is the central point you need to know in order to organically reverse a disease (and possibly even insect) outbreak using chitin! Chitinase is the enzyme that breaks chitin down into chitosan. Some living organisms produce this chitinase enzyme. Most of these organisms are bacteria (and some fungi). Some plants even produce this enzyme in order to fight off disease (this is the “system” that we will use to model our pest control treatment). Anyways, many of the chitinase producing microorganisms are known crustacean pathogens. These organisms produce this enzyme so they can break down crustacean shells (in order to eat it, or get through it to invade the shellfish itself). While this may seem bad, it can be used to our organic advantage.


More info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitosan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitinase

Ok, now that you are a little familiar with each of these substances let’s start talking pest control. There are really two stages of pest control: preventative and reactive.

PREVENTATIVE PEST CONTROL using chitin and chitosan

Like I mentioned, chitin is found on the outer parts of fungi and bugs. Some plants use this to their advantage. They have receptors that sense chitin. When the plant detects chitin (especially in high concentrations) it assumes that it is being attacked by either an insect or a fungal disease. The plant will ramp up its defenses. It will thicken and strengthen its cell walls. If it can, it will start making chitinase.

Why would a plant make chitinase if it thinks it is being attacked? Well as you know, chitinase breaks chitin down. Hence, when the fungi or insect comes in contact with the plant, the plant will excrete these enzymes. When the enzyme touches the chitin on the pest, it will break it down. As the chitin breaks down the pest either becomes vulnerable and weak or even flat out die. In this way some plants produce their own ‘insecticide’ and ‘fungicide’, albeit in very limited quantities.

So why apply chitosan?

Well, plants can react to chitosan in the same way as chitin. When they detect it they will beef up their defenses. Hence companies sell chitosan as a systematic pesticide. Could the same effect be achieved by using chitin itself? Yes. I understand it though that most companies sell chitosan because it is more soluble and can be better mixed and sprayed as a solution.

I also understand that as the plant works to strengthen its cell walls etc, it must create new growth. Hence chitin and chitosan are used as plant growth regulators that increase plant growth. When you apply the product the plant will put energy into growth as it tries to defend itself against the apparent attack.

In summary, when you apply chitin or even chitosan you will stimulate the plant to beef up its defenses. In this way your plant will be less susceptible to diseases and insects. This is most effective before the pant is being attacked. If an outbreak is already in progress, there is a better option.

Now that we know how to use chitin products to help prevent outbreaks, how do we use them to correct outbreaks that are in progress?

REACTIVE PEST CONTROL using chitin, chitosan, AND chitinase.

Suppose that your plant (be it tomato, squash, etc. or even a fruit tree) is already being attacked by a pest. What can you do? Applying chitin or chitosan can’t hurt, but my experience suggests that there is a more effective alternative.

Plants can kill fungi/bugs using the chitinase enzyme, so why can’t you? The idea is to use the plants natural model to provide your own pest control. You simply need to make a concentrated amount of chitinase and apply it. You will effectively be applying a concentrated dose of a natural pesticide!

So how do you make chitinase? You let bacteria do it for you! It’s pretty simple really. Get your hands on some chitin and ferment it. As it ferments, chitinase will be the main compound helping the bacteria eat it. If you apply the mixture AS it is fermenting you will be applying a large dose of the chitinase enzyme, and as such, will be able to help the plant kill off the disease/insect outbreak.

HOW TO PRODUCE CHITINASE using fermentation

Remember, chitin is the main component of crustacean shells. Save the shells when you eat crabs, shrimp etc. and dry them out. If you live near the coast you are in luck. Many people/companies see these shells as waste. If you can find someone who is getting rid of some, tell them you will gladly take them off their hands. If not, buy a crustacean shell fertilizer; something like “crab shell fertilizer”.

Now that you have your shells you need to turn them into powder in order to maximize surface area and increase break down. Simply put them in a blender and puree until powder. smile.gif

Ok, now that you have your powder chitin you need to let the bacteria do their thing. This is best achieved if you inoculate it with chitin eating bacteria. The simplest way to do this is to find a company that sells non-sterilized chitosan that was produced by using fermentation. The chitosan will have the appropriate bacteria. If you can’t get some non-sterilized naturally produced chitosan that is ok, you will just have to wait for nature to blow in some of the desired bacteria on its own (leave open outside for best natural inoculation).

Once you have your ingredients take a bucket full of of non-chlorinated water and add your chitin. Next add your inoculant and wait until fermentation begins.

To speed up the process, it is beneficial to aerate the bucket of water with a fish-tank air pump (as if you were making actively aerated compost tea). Also, warming the water can promote bacteria production. The temperature depends on which type of bacteria you want to encourage. Usually you want it over 80 degree F and below 135 degrees F.

Just like with other organic pest control practices timing is important! You want to spray the solution while there is the maximum concentration of chitinase. This is done while fermentation is happening rapidly. The easiest way to tell is to smell the product. Once the smell changes it is ready. The longer you wait, the less chitin there will be, and hence less chitinase. So smell often and spray quickly.

Spray the substance on your plant. Over and under leaves, on the bark, and even on the soil around the root zone. That’s it, your home produced natural and organic pesticide!

Note: think ahead for the next outbreak. Leave a quart or so of the solution in the bucket and let ferment for a few more days (until fermenting is over). Place in an airtight jar and save. You will use this to inoculate your next batch.

Warning about concentrated doses of chitinase

I have a friend who grows worms. She threw some extra chitin “brew” in one of her worm piles to feed them. The thing she didn’t think about was that worms also have chitin in their skin. The brew killed the entire worm population just like it can kill fungi and bugs.

In other words, be careful and only use active chitin brews during an outbreak. It is likely that using chitinase brews can kill beneficial organisms as well as pests. To correct this, once the brew has had time to do its thing and break down (a few days to a week) it is best to re-introduce beneficial organisms to the plant and soil. Spray your plant and soil with a compost/manure tea or simply sprinkle some compost over the dirt and water those good guys into the soil.

Note two: The above process can also be used to produce chitosan on your own so you do not have to purchase it for your preventative applications. Simply let fermentation finish before applying.
 
cloudyhelads

cloudyhelads

352
93
Hello All. New to the forum. Very good information int his thread. I have grown Cannabis in soil for 8 years now. In the past I have used fox farm and other "middle shelf" potting soils but about 6 months ago I went "all in" with a 200 gal smart pot. I built a typical "coot's" soil mix: equal parts spaghnum peat moss and composted cow manure/lobster compost (I live in New England). For aeration I added 1/2 part lava rock. For amendments, neem cake, kelp meal, crustacean meal, alfalfa meal, rock dusts etc just like the man said. I added a thousand wigglers. night crawlers to the mix and let it set. I have had this monstrosity in my basement on a pallet with a tarp over it.
I run a perpetual grow and my flower tent is set up so that I harvest a plant every 2 or so weeks and add a vegged up replacement. I have 4 cobs, a blurple led 350 watt, and an all- red ufo. I grow a white widow that I culled out of a Nirvana seeds 10 pack 8 years ago, a GSC cut that I got from a friend which I am sure is not real GSC, but is great herb.
After letting the mix "cook" for 3 months, and adding the waste from my grow to the top layer with malted barley, and the sludge from teas, etc., I began taking the bottom layer of this soil, adding 1/4 part Rice hulls and sticking plants in it.
I do starts in solo cups in a small rooting chamber with a couple of household led bulbs 24/0. I then transfer to chamber 2 and transplant to (room for 4) 1 gal plastic pots and 8 household leds. Then Chamber 3 has my 20 gal smart pots (room for 2). This system has evolved over the years. The plants are in chamber 2 for +/- 8 weeks in the 1 gal, and then in chamber 3 for 2 weeks in their big pots.

Eventually I am thinking of turning the flower room into a bed, but for now it is 20 gal fabric pots. I cover crop with scarlet clover and malted barley that sprouts. But so far my results have been a little mixed:
When transplanting from 1 gal to the big fabric pots (fox farm 1 gal into my soil @ 20 gal) the plants take off. I water only through flower and have had good results. However when I transplant my solos to 1 gal of my soil, the leaves get yellow and brown spots, the tips die back and growth is stunted. The leaves claw up and do not come back.
Am I burning these young plants? Do i need to dilute the mix with more peat moss for the little ones? I have sent out a soil test to logan labs and will share the results.
Anyway, thanks for the great forum and info.
 
Patanjali

Patanjali

578
243
I'd try giving them a good topdress of EWC (maybe even a few aloe foliars) and see if that don't snap out of it.

P-
 
cloudyhelads

cloudyhelads

352
93
I'd try giving them a good topdress of EWC (maybe even a few aloe foliars) and see if that don't snap out of it.

P-
Thanks P. I am actually thinking that maybe there is too much EWC type material. I have kind of.confused things and now I don't know.if I have 200 gal of.soil or 200 gal of.compost. I did 50% compost and 50% peat (+ aeration and ammendments) but a lot of worms have been in there working the lot.of.it for several months. The weak young plants look potassium deficient (claws and dead spotting). I'll add store bought EWC to the top of one of them and see what that does. Thanks for the tip.
 
F

FutureGrower

606
93
Hello All. New to the forum. Very good information int his thread. I have grown Cannabis in soil for 8 years now. In the past I have used fox farm and other "middle shelf" potting soils but about 6 months ago I went "all in" with a 200 gal smart pot. I built a typical "coot's" soil mix: equal parts spaghnum peat moss and composted cow manure/lobster compost (I live in New England). For aeration I added 1/2 part lava rock. For amendments, neem cake, kelp meal, crustacean meal, alfalfa meal, rock dusts etc just like the man said. I added a thousand wigglers. night crawlers to the mix and let it set. I have had this monstrosity in my basement on a pallet with a tarp over it.
I run a perpetual grow and my flower tent is set up so that I harvest a plant every 2 or so weeks and add a vegged up replacement. I have 4 cobs, a blurple led 350 watt, and an all- red ufo. I grow a white widow that I culled out of a Nirvana seeds 10 pack 8 years ago, a GSC cut that I got from a friend which I am sure is not real GSC, but is great herb.
After letting the mix "cook" for 3 months, and adding the waste from my grow to the top layer with malted barley, and the sludge from teas, etc., I began taking the bottom layer of this soil, adding 1/4 part Rice hulls and sticking plants in it.
I do starts in solo cups in a small rooting chamber with a couple of household led bulbs 24/0. I then transfer to chamber 2 and transplant to (room for 4) 1 gal plastic pots and 8 household leds. Then Chamber 3 has my 20 gal smart pots (room for 2). This system has evolved over the years. The plants are in chamber 2 for +/- 8 weeks in the 1 gal, and then in chamber 3 for 2 weeks in their big pots.

Eventually I am thinking of turning the flower room into a bed, but for now it is 20 gal fabric pots. I cover crop with scarlet clover and malted barley that sprouts. But so far my results have been a little mixed:
When transplanting from 1 gal to the big fabric pots (fox farm 1 gal into my soil @ 20 gal) the plants take off. I water only through flower and have had good results. However when I transplant my solos to 1 gal of my soil, the leaves get yellow and brown spots, the tips die back and growth is stunted. The leaves claw up and do not come back.
Am I burning these young plants? Do i need to dilute the mix with more peat moss for the little ones? I have sent out a soil test to logan labs and will share the results.
Anyway, thanks for the great forum and info.

When you say you water only through flower are you saying you let your 20 gallon pots run dry? If so peat is incredibly hydrophobic. If you arent watering it in over several hours or even days with some sort of saponins only a small portion of your soil will be used.
 
cloudyhelads

cloudyhelads

352
93
When you say you water only through flower are you saying you let your 20 gallon pots run dry? If so peat is incredibly hydrophobic. If you arent watering it in over several hours or even days with some sort of saponins only a small portion of your soil will be used.
Sorry, no, Future, thank you,I only add water. No amendments or topdress or etc. I am trying to get soil dialed in to take me right through. My question succinctly is 200 gal of compost + peat + amendments + aeration+ worms + 6 months. Does it = 200 gal compost that needs to be cooled down with more peat or soil to plant into directly. Again, respect for your consideration.
 
OldSmokie76

OldSmokie76

1,110
263
The mix you're describing is essentially considered a super soil type of mix. No? Yes it needs to cook, but I'm assuming a minimum of 30-60 days is sufficient. With that said, in all my research, highly amended soils should be used sparingly. New transplants can be burnt if placed directly into a hot soil. Typically the super soil is in the bottom half of the container and the transplant is surrounded by a buffer soil having no heavy amendments. This allows the transplant to strengthen and stretch into the nutrient rich mix. This has been my practice in 3-5 gal containers. I do topdress with the same mix periodically. I would say you have 200 gal of super rich soil that you should only use on the lower half of your container. My suggestion, get a garbage can and remove the upper portion of mix. Place it in the garbage can and put a lid on it. Get enough general potting mix (I use Happy Frog) to plant your ladies in the container with the lower half being the super soil mix. FFHF has been good to me straight thru a solid month of veg. This I think would alleviate the issues with your transplants. My two cents. I'm no pro, but I'm willing to try to help. Hope that helps. Happy growing.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom