Minimum Pot Size To Maintain & Recycle Living Soil?

[Perception]

I was speaking with the owner of a local grow shop, and his opinion was that you need a minimum of a 15gallon pot in order to start building a living soil that can be recycled for consecutive grows (I know there is lots more to deal with in keeping it healthy and alive, but I need to start with pot size). He uses 100gallon fabric pots indoors (has worms, etc), and keeps it alive and reuses the soil.

I'm just getting my feet wet on building and maintaining living soil. Wondering where I should start with pot size? My grow tent footprint is 36"x36". 15 gallon is ok, but if I could go smaller I would.

Smart Pots: 18" in diameter - I could fit 4.
https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Pots-15-Gallon-Soft-Sided-Container/dp/B004O3LPOE

 

[Blaze]

If you are trying to create a living soil web, the larger the soil mass the better. I personally have never gone smaller than a 25 gal with this approach. Have you considered building a single large bed for your tent? You could just build one bed that just barely fits inside the tent, like a 32"x32"x18" box and use that. The plants will grow better in something like that than 15 gallon pots.

 

[Perception]

Yeah! I have considered big pots. I think I saw 50 gallon pots that are about 36" diameter, so they would work perfectly. I'd like to be able to fit 6 plants in the large pot if needed.

Although, my goal is to do some A/B testing - experiment with different soil options using clones. "How does straight FFOF in 5 gallon pots compare to a living food web in a 15gal pit?". Or, if I had 4 15gal pots, I could experiment with different living soil recipes. So basically I'm not quite ready to isolate myself to one pot yet (if possible). If I could get away with 15gal, I'd start there to leave room.

I'm just finishing my first grow, and still have lots to learn. What is the maintenance like on a pot that you can't move? Does it get messy?

 

[Perception]

And by maintenance, I just mean: what is the level of effort required?

 

[eastcoastjoe]

15 gallon pots would work just fine. In my experience , 10 gallon pots would be my minimum although I pull it off in 7 gallons in my small space

Just remember that the larger volume of soil you can use will give you better results and require less maintainence. The smaller the pot, the more inputs you will have to add to arrive at the end result you want

Another thing regarding soil, if your going to go the no till route, do yourself a favor and ditch ocean forest and Mix your own soil

Yeah! I have considered big pots. I think I saw 50 gallon pots that are about 36" diameter, so they would work perfectly. I'd like to be able to fit 6 plants in the large pot if needed.

Although, my goal is to do some A/B testing - experiment with different soil options using clones. "How does straight FFOF in 5 gallon pots compare to a living food web in a 15gal pit?". Or, if I had 4 15gal pots, I could experiment with different living soil recipes. So basically I'm not quite ready to isolate myself to one pot yet (if possible). If I could get away with 15gal, I'd start there to leave room.

I'm just finishing my first grow, and still have lots to learn. What is the maintenance like on a pot that you can't move? Does it get messy?

And by maintenance, I just mean: what is the level of effort required?

 

[Perception]

Another thing regarding soil, if your going to go the no till route, do yourself a favor and ditch ocean forest and Mix your own soil

Absolutely, and I will be doing no till. I may recycle the FFOF from this current grow for one more grow, but as I learn more about designing soil, I'll be building my own. I'm about 6 weeks out from my next flower cycle (still a newb - didn't plan right), so plan to pot up the used FFOF in a 15gal, then add some dutch white clover, and let it run for that time under the veg light. Will probably add a mycorrhizae booster. Can hopefully transplant a vegging plant directly in to the living clover.

There is just so much to learn. Finishing up the book "Teaming with Microbes" right now, although doesn't seem like I'll find a ton of direction on how to start building these micro soil food webs for indoor pots. Still have a lot of research to do.

Thanks!

 

[HippyFarmerT]

I'll probably catch some flack, but I have been growing in 3 gal smart pots using the same soil for a year now. Recycling/vermicomposting and using aacts is honestly the biggest factor for me. While I do absolutely agree that the more soil mass, the easier it will be and it may be a happier system, but for me that wasn't an option when planning my grow. I wanted to rock something with a quicker turn over rate and I love perpetual so I married the ideas of living soil and perpetual by using worm bins. I have two worm bins set up. Whenever a plant finishes, I chop, topdress with whatever comes out of the bottom of the worm bin(castings/compost/humus ), some cover crop and water it for a week. After a week , the old stalk comes out easily with almost no root mass attached and it goes into the worm bin. Then I put a clone in it's pot and and keep rockin!! Everything gets aact once a month along with some bio media pro by better organix. Some may disagree with it even being possible in 3 gallons, but it's very obvious to me that I have a flourishing microherd because I am able to feed water and humic acid all the way through with no deficiencies and pull 1-2oz/plant(strain dependant) harvesting 3 plants every three weeks under ~600 true Watts led.

Forgot to mention that while I'm scooping from one worm bin, the other sits and collects scraps/paper for 4-6 weeks at a time so the worms aren't constantly being thrown around in both bins and allows time for castings to build up.

 

[Perception]

I'll probably catch some flack, but I have been growing in 3 gal smart pots using the same soil for a year now. Recycling/vermicomposting and using aacts is honestly the biggest factor for me. While I do absolutely agree that the more soil mass, the easier it will be and it may be a happier system, but for me that wasn't an option when planning my grow. I wanted to rock something with a quicker turn over rate and I love perpetual so I married the ideas of living soil and perpetual by using worm bins. I have two worm bins set up. Whenever a plant finishes, I chop, topdress with whatever comes out of the bottom of the worm bin(castings/compost/humus ), some cover crop and water it for a week. After a week , the old stalk comes out easily with almost no root mass attached and it goes into the worm bin. Then I put a clone in it's pot and and keep rockin!! Everything gets aact once a month along with some bio media pro by better organix. Some may disagree with it even being possible in 3 gallons, but it's very obvious to me that I have a flourishing microherd because I am able to feed water and humic acid all the way through with no deficiencies and pull 1-2oz/plant(strain dependant) harvesting 3 plants every three weeks under ~600 true Watts led.

Forgot to mention that while I'm scooping from one worm bin, the other sits and collects scraps/paper for 4-6 weeks at a time so the worms aren't constantly being thrown around in both bins and allows time for castings to build up.

Love it! Thanks HippieFarmerT. I particularly like the concept of letting the root ball die a little, then pulling out, and dropping a vegging plant in the hole. Funny - I've been thinking about this A LOT! "If no-till, how will I dig a hole to drop new plant in? Will I have to dig out cover crop for hole?". That's a good solution.

Interesting, because I could fit 9, 5gallon smart pots in my tent (36"x36")

 

[HippyFarmerT]

It's definitely more work and I have to water every other day because they looove to drink and use water, but I have 9-10 plants in a 4x4 flower tent and i only have three tents total so I kinda like having to do a little bit of work daily . I would imagine if you're going bigger than me though, I'd use larger pots just to reduce work load . Good luck either way :) no matter what, vermicomposting is the cats pajamas. Much love

 

[REAPER GROWS]

I'll probably catch some flack, but I have been growing in 3 gal smart pots using the same soil for a year now. Recycling/vermicomposting and using aacts is honestly the biggest factor for me. While I do absolutely agree that the more soil mass, the easier it will be and it may be a happier system, but for me that wasn't an option when planning my grow. I wanted to rock something with a quicker turn over rate and I love perpetual so I married the ideas of living soil and perpetual by using worm bins. I have two worm bins set up. Whenever a plant finishes, I chop, topdress with whatever comes out of the bottom of the worm bin(castings/compost/humus ), some cover crop and water it for a week. After a week , the old stalk comes out easily with almost no root mass attached and it goes into the worm bin. Then I put a clone in it's pot and and keep rockin!! Everything gets aact once a month along with some bio media pro by better organix. Some may disagree with it even being possible in 3 gallons, but it's very obvious to me that I have a flourishing microherd because I am able to feed water and humic acid all the way through with no deficiencies and pull 1-2oz/plant(strain dependant) harvesting 3 plants every three weeks under ~600 true Watts led.

Forgot to mention that while I'm scooping from one worm bin, the other sits and collects scraps/paper for 4-6 weeks at a time so the worms aren't constantly being thrown around in both bins and allows time for castings to build up.

Thanks for this info...i am actually going to attempt growing in 3 gallon smart pots with living organic soil using the no till method. doing this from seed was going to soak them then plant in root riot plugs...once roots established transplant to 3 gallon for 2 or 3 more weeks feed it a barley tea with compost and molasses.. then flip. Top dress at this point with some teas to feed soil until finished.

any pointers regarding this subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Purpletrain]

Thanks for this info...i am actually going to attempt growing in 3 gallon smart pots with living organic soil using the no till method. doing this from seed was going to soak them then plant in root riot plugs...once roots established transplant to 3 gallon for 2 or 3 more weeks feed it a barley tea with compost and molasses.. then flip. Top dress at this point with some teas to feed soil until finished.

any pointers regarding this subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

My pointer is its not going to pan out well the plant will use all of its
minerals and nutrients well before the plant is done in no till you will want min 20 gallon more the better or NoTill beds plain n simple
only way it will make it is teas and constant top dressing after couple weeks and even that is a chance of not panning out

 

[REAPER GROWS]

My pointer is its not going to pan out well the plant will use all of its
minerals and nutrients well before the plant is done in no till you will want min 20 gallon more the better or NoTill beds plain n simple
only way it will make it is teas and constant top dressing after couple weeks and even that is a chance of not panning out

if i top dress twice once when i flip and once at 3 or 4 weeks of flower and compost tea inbewtween i think i should be good.

 

[Perception]

I've got a few indoor seedlings in 1/2gal fabric pots right now. I mixed up some 3gal and 5gal smart pots with my homemade soil for ROLS a few weeks ago, and they have been sitting outdoors with some dutch white clover growing in them. Will be watering with some AACT soon too. When time to transplant, the bigger pots will be moved indoors.

I'm going to do some basic NPK soil tests on them at the beginning and end of flower. Might send some soil samples off to the lab too. Curious to see how things pan out. Will post any results I get. Ultimately, I'm thinking four 15gal or 20gal smart pots in my 36x36" tent will be what I go with (if they fit!), as I don't think I'll ever need more than four plants going at once.

 

[Purpletrain]

Thats the way to do it perception build a soil let it settle over 2 - 3 weeks so micro and macro organisms establish them selfs and ph stabilizes then off for testing then once done take sample and get it tested again ,,
There are different types of soil testing so don't cheap out :)

 

[HippyFarmerT]

My pointer is its not going to pan out well the plant will use all of its
minerals and nutrients well before the plant is done in no till you will want min 20 gallon more the better or NoTill beds plain n simple
only way it will make it is teas and constant top dressing after couple weeks and even that is a chance of not panning out

No offense but stop putting limits on yourself man. By saying things can't be done in a method you've never tried is a little trigger happy. Anyway, his concerns are valid that right away it may not be perfect. It took me a full cycle(3-4months) before I locked it down. But am happy still in the same three gallon soil from my older posts, different plants :) I say go for it if that's what seems right for your space and ambition!

 

[REAPER GROWS]

build a soil makes my soil this time. i didn't have time to mix my own. but before i drop my seedling i will have already ya cover crop grown and jump started it with a molasses/worm casting brew. at which point i would drop my seedling in. might even drop a few red wigglers in there.

 

[REAPER GROWS]

No offense but stop putting limits on yourself man. By saying things can't be done in a method you've never tried is a little trigger happy. Anyway, his concerns are valid that right away it may not be perfect. It took me a full cycle(3-4months) before I locked it down. But am happy still in the same three gallon soil from my older posts, different plants :) I say go for it if that's what seems right for your space and ambition!
View attachment 624025

thank you. you still growing in there reaffirms my decision. i want to test some seeds so i need to use my 3x3 psace to the max which would only allow me 9 - 3 gallon pots. First time at this no till gig but from what i have seen and read i like a lot. next year my outdoors will be all no till for sure!

 

[Perception]

Thats the way to do it perception build a soil let it settle over 2 - 3 weeks so micro and macro organisms establish them selfs and ph stabilizes then off for testing then once done take sample and get it tested again ,,
There are different types of soil testing so don't cheap out :)

I'll probably just run a basic analysis from the local university to start, but I also plan to try doing a foodweb biology analysis. Got a lead on this analysis company from the book Teaming With Microbes. I think $60 is pretty fair for full bacteria/fungi/nematode/protozoa workup:

The above submission form is from: http://www.soilfoodweb.com/

 

[Perception]

Got a very basic soil test done at the local university. Honestly, I was hoping they would test more things, but whatever - it's a start! Looks like my NPK is all a bit high, but I expected this. Hopefully it's not TOO high.

Can anyone speak to the Electrical Conductivity? That's the only area where they recommended some possible remediation, and I'm not sure if it's a problem for cannabis. Thanks!

 

[HippyFarmerT]

Got a very basic soil test done at the local university. Honestly, I was hoping they would test more things, but whatever - it's a start! Looks like my NPK is all a bit high, but I expected this. Hopefully it's not TOO high.

Can anyone speak to the Electrical Conductivity? That's the only area where they recommended some possible remediation, and I'm not sure if it's a problem for cannabis. Thanks!View attachment 628760

After reading an article from Clemson, my very very basic understanding of electrical conductivity is it basically describes the quantity of available nutrients. Higher E.C generally isn't a problem, it was noted that pest management may become a problem but I think for cannabis(especially indoor) we already stay on that. High E.C can also indicate a high level on nitrogen to the point where it may be affecting absorption of other nutrients, or high levels of exchangeable sodium..aka lockout could be in your future/high ec means they think you should flush your soil a little to drain salts. Hope I helped!