Monsanto buys Foxfarm?

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squiggly

squiggly

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Just popped in to my hydro store to find a sunlight supply rep, I overloaded dude with questions. He guaranteed that Fox Farm DID NOT sell out to Monsanto. He swears that Fox Farms is still owned by the same guy (old hippy) whom supposedly stated that he would never sell out to such a company.

Literally took place 20 mins ago. This is just the word from a rep that has been with Sunlight for 4+ years. Now could he be lying? possibly... but he seemed pretty honest and actually helped me save quite a bit of money on my future purchases.

Now back to farming!
Z

Monsanto/Scotts are both publicly traded companies. There is no question such an acquisition would be publicized.

If the first 3 results google turns up on this come from MJ websites you can bet the damn farm (har har) that it didn't happen.

What is more likely:

A competitor leaked this rumor to gain an economic advantage over FF.

OR

Some dumbass just said it because they are dumb (my personal guess).
 
Theoneandonly Z

Theoneandonly Z

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Monsanto/Scotts are both publicly traded companies. There is no question such an acquisition would be publicized.

If the first 3 results google turns up on this come from MJ websites you can bet the damn farm (har har) that it didn't happen.

What is more likely:

A competitor leaked this rumor to gain an economic advantage over FF.

OR

Some dumbass just said it because they are dumb (my personal guess).

agreed, just trying to help lay this thread to rest and keep peoples mind at ease.
 
We Solidarity

We Solidarity

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Again, you're conflating size of crop with value. At 2500 a pound and up, it doesn't take a lot of volume for the marijuana industry to make more money. I'm also talking about the whole pot industry, too- not just the legal sliver at the top of the iceberg.

you still think pot would be work 2500 a pound if it was grown in that billion dollar greenhouse? Sure there will always be a demand for connoisseur quality, but when it goes from 2500 back to 4-500 again how strong will that demand be? will it hold in a market? Don't forget the current business model for MMC's is bound for collapse - once things really get going and taxes/governments are involved the "mom & pop" (this refers to most dispensaries these days - there are a few conglomerates that are forming which are big-business model but they are still very few) model of warehouse to storefront will be gone - it will be just like the rest of the floral industry - gardeners selling to retail shops or wholesale distributors.
 
7

7thson

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I guess this post I made was overlooked.One more try.Is everyone on dope?
Hello!

Thanks for your interest in FoxFarm! Yes, we are still a small, family-run business based in Eureka, CA, and no, we have not been bought out by any other company. We are also still committed to producing the highest quality soils and fertilizers available. We have no plans to change the way we do business, so rest assured that when you garden with FoxFarm products, you are using the highest quality products around! Thanks again for your inquiry, and please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns. Cheers!

Adam Crook
Product Specialist
FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company
(707) 443-4369: Phone
(707) 443-7645: Fax
 
We Solidarity

We Solidarity

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it's just...what interest would monsanto/scotts have for fox farm? Monsanto is a seed company, scotts is a fertilizer/soil company. neither one makes money serving the public sector. In fact, they've almost completely cut you out of growing plants...monsanto provides mainly for commercial farmers, scotts to commercial farmers as well as the lawn care/landscape industry. Sure, you can buy scotts dirt and monsanto seeds at home depot, but IMO those sales aren't doing anything but cutting you out of buying REAL plants and REAL fertilizer to use in a REAL garden. These companies have completely gone around sustenance level gardening, and I really believe we'll start feeling the chokehold this year.
 
squiggly

squiggly

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it's just...what interest would monsanto/scotts have for fox farm? Monsanto is a seed company, scotts is a fertilizer/soil company. neither one makes money serving the public sector. In fact, they've almost completely cut you out of growing plants...monsanto provides mainly for commercial farmers, scotts to commercial farmers as well as the lawn care/landscape industry. Sure, you can buy scotts dirt and monsanto seeds at home depot, but IMO those sales aren't doing anything but cutting you out of buying REAL plants and REAL fertilizer to use in a REAL garden. These companies have completely gone around sustenance level gardening, and I really believe we'll start feeling the chokehold this year.

I feel that you greatly misunderstand the world of big business.

If it's a profitable company and they felt they could roll it into their industrial process--they would have every interest in acquiring Fox Farm.

It's not about targeting specific industries, it's about overhead, revenue, and profit--nothing more or less. You've failed to mention even one of the three.

In terms of this "chokehold" you speak of I'm really at a loss to understand what you mean (excepting their seed business which many feel is slowly taking over the country through cross-pollination and business acquisitions). That won't be felt anywhere but big agrobusiness and grocery stores for the next 20 years or so. You'll still be quite capable of buying real plants and ferts for at least that long. There is no obstructionism there as of yet from monsanto--not on the little guy at least.

On farmers, sure--no question. Not on gardeners.
 
reeldrag

reeldrag

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very well said Mr squiggly some people just dont get mega business. They have no use for fox farm the market is just to small for them you are talking a few million a yr profit for fox farm, monsanto profits billions and billions
 
We Solidarity

We Solidarity

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I feel that you greatly misunderstand the world of big business.

If it's a profitable company and they felt they could roll it into their industrial process--they would have every interest in acquiring Fox Farm.

It's not about targeting specific industries, it's about overhead, revenue, and profit--nothing more or less. You've failed to mention even one of the three.

In terms of this "chokehold" you speak of I'm really at a loss to understand what you mean (excepting their seed business which many feel is slowly taking over the country through cross-pollination and business acquisitions). That won't be felt anywhere but big agrobusiness and grocery stores for the next 20 years or so. You'll still be quite capable of buying real plants and ferts for at least that long. There is no obstructionism there as of yet from monsanto--not on the little guy at least.

On farmers, sure--no question. Not on gardeners.


Hey bud...let me tell you my experience with "big business", and my opinion on gardening these days. At least in current culture.

I watched our family nursery (we grew bromeliads - my dad set up the first ever cultivation greenhouses for them in Guatemala to put direct competition on wild harvesters, who were destroying native bromeliad populations throughout Central America.) Being the first commercial bromeliad distributor in the states, we had the opportunity to sell our plants to the successful and neighborhood friendly Wal Mart stores which were quickly becoming an international company. We started selling to wal-mart in 1996 and things were going AMAZING. My dad would take me on a trip to Bentonville to meet with the sales-reps and renew our contracts every year. Things moved incredibly fast and eventually we were breaking a quarter million dollars a month with wal-mart alone, and had taken on accounts with home depot, lowes, target, kroger, and at one point even 7-11. Then one day the people my dad had started his business selling to, the independent owners of little retail nurseries and hardware stores, were gone. All the small accounts were gone. But once you start having million dollar months the little accounts actually become an inconvenience...they would have to park their vans or trailers and wait for the two semis to get filled to the brim from the shipping dock. Their lives definitely got hard first.

Four years later - in 2000, wal-mart got a new CEO, who shut down the sales department in Bentonville and started sourcing directly from distributors. This move made them filthy rich. It also cut out our direct, intimate connection to the garden center sales reps and we had to start dealing with a middle man (in our case, McLane Distribution), so we had to drastically lower our prices as well as compete with the dutch nurseries that were beginning to open up and dominate the smaller, independent companies. Eventually, to deal with the horrible prices everyone was receiving from the distributors (once all your old sales are gone and "big business" is the only business around, they tell you how much they pay), nurseries began selling and crediting each other plants - undercutting each other to get their plants to market.

And then a year later in 2001 everything changed again, the nation entered a war, the economy took a turn, and nobody gave a FLYING FUCK about ornamental plants.

Past 2001, if you couldn't eat it, smoke it, or fuck it, it was very very hard to sell. Garden centers were taking a hit and
lowes/homedepot/walmart/target were suffering losses, so they instituted the "pay by scan" and "guranteed sale" programs - where you basically gave them your plants on credit and they paid you for what went to the register, charged you for what died in their stores (usually due to neglect from them only having one person "taking care" of a 2000 sq ft. garden center) or was damaged in shipping. Whatever wasn't selling they would just ship back to you. The huge overhead for growing plants has already been discussed in this thread, so you can imagine how hard this was on everyone. One by one my parent's friends and competition were closing their doors and throwing their plants into giant piles to rot until they could sell their land cheap to strip mine dirt for highways. My dad, the first man to begin commercial cultivation of bromeliads in North America, who stopped the harvesting of tillandsia xerographica out of the wild and was one of the only suppliers in the United States past 2004, was one of the last to fold. He fired all the major stores and urged his sales people to make calls and visit what local garden centers still existed, but even they had forgotten how to sell after 10 years of picking up walmart's calls. What garden centers we did sell plants to wanted them on credit as well, and we had to wait months for payment. My dad declared full bankrupcy last year after nearly a decade of battling with garden centers, distributors, lawyers, and some cutthroat dutch assholes. He's still got a small nursery where he breeds native tillandsia varieties but it's a small shadehouse in his front yard, not the 80 acre greenhouse I used to work in. I watched an industry thrive and I watched alot of money be made, then I watched the rug get pulled from under and I watched the ornamental industry take a total nosedive. And it's the same story in most agribusiness, the small farmers and gardeners have been replaced by corporations supplying corporations, through corporations.

Independent businesses like my dad's were just "inconvenient little accounts" for a company like Scott's, who was all of the sudden supplying much bigger nurseries and gardens, who were in turn supplying home depot/lowes/walmart. Viscous cycle. At the same time, Scott's products were being sold in all those stores, and dominated the garden centers where most of the lawn/turfcare/landscaping companies would shop. It was the marketing scheme of miracle-gro that brought the plant-collecting ex-hippies of the 80s and early 90s into the gardening scene, and painted the picture of a perfect flower garden and a perfect green lawn. Sickening when you realize lawn companies all over the country are owned through mergers/acquisitions by Scotts. They control the concept of "gardening" now. And Monsanto controls the seeds. That is a chokehold - when a major percentage of the general public only has access to (financially/geographically) products that were created to trick them into thinking they were gardening - when really they are buying from a company that will put pesticides and toxic chemicals into nearly all of their products, and sell them shamelessly without advertising such. They are poison to us. And the saddest part is that so few have a clue.


but yeah, when scott's/monsanto enters the cannabis industry, it will have already been through at least two formalizations and cannabis will also be completely legal, who knows maybe if the infrastructure is there maybe they'll help with legalization.

Edit to add - that's any major enterances - I know a few growers using Peter's Excel salts in their homegrows. Squiggs if you can tell me wtf M-77 chelation technology is I have some friends who would be quite relieved. They are freaking out b/c they just saw it on the bag and can't find out what it is haha
 
squiggly

squiggly

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Squiggs if you can tell me wtf M-77 chelation technology is I have some friends who would be quite relieved. They are freaking out b/c they just saw it on the bag and can't find out what it is haha

That was quite a post!

I hate to tell you that what you've described isn't the result of some "chokehold" Scotts/Monsanto or similar companies have exercised over the little guy. (Also while we're at it the most successful landscape businesses in most localities still tend to be mom-and-pop because they have less overhead than the big guys due to illegal immigrant workers--this is something I actually have considerable hands-on experience with.)

The reality is that this is the form a market economy takes on. Businesses such as your fathers are what are known as perfectly competitive businesses to economists. What this means is that there is no proprietary element and the only barrier to entry into such a business is the capital necessary to enter it.

Businesses like this only operate successfully for extended periods under incorporated structures (ie if they are corporations). The money makers in these businesses are the CEOs, and the workers. These businesses actually operate VERY MUCH like not-for-profit businesses in that way, because the profit margins are so incredibly low. Instead the success of these businesses depends on market share and overhead adjustment--not total profit.

The business model for such a business is/should be about cutting overhead as much as humanly possible relative to competition such that you can beat their prices. What this does is ultimately put both a price ceiling and a price floor on products that they produce, for all producers of that product. Typically these price margins are EXTREMELY narrow, even from company to company. This is where the name perfect competition is derived from.

Another great example of such an industry would be the peanut butter industry. Peter pan and Jif both cost a similar amount. However if you go to wal-mart, kroger, or what-have-you, you'll find the corporate brand (ie the wal-mart peanut butter) probably has the tiniest bit of a price advantage. This is because, as the store owner, the distribution costs are significantly lower for that company and this allows them a small price advantage. Most of this benefit comes from the idea that wal-mart doesn't need to advertise its brand of peanut butter, it simply advertises the existence of its store and allows Jif and Peter Pan to take care of advertising FOR them. They benefit from the fickle "impulse savings" purchases consumers are prone to making once in the store to buy peanut butter. You come wanting Jif, and you leave with wal-mart peanut butter.

Wal-mart has become a business giant taking advantage of this incredibly narrow but significant margin. It makes its money by making a VERY TINY profit off of a mind-fuckingly large volume. If it were only peanut butter wal-mart would fail. But they do this for everything.

1% of the biggest pie ever is bigger than 100% of a tiny pie in the business world. And in the case of wal-mart 0.000001% of EVERYONE's pie (all products) is better than 100% of one pie (peanut butter).

I regret to inform you that this isn't the fault of Monsanto or Scotts but instead is the fault of capitalism and must be blamed on the consumer well before it is ever blamed on ANY singular corporation.

It was the need/want of the consumer to stretch a dollar during those economic changes that caused your father's business to bottom out--not bigger businesses or corporate interests in various industries.

If consumers gave a shit about mom-and-pop or loving tenderness then his company would still be booming and Wal-Mart would've been pulverized as a corporate entity by now. This is the way of the world. It is unfortunate to say--but your dad set himself up for this failure before he grew his first plant commercially. The world has moved this way since the industrial revolution and it shows no signs of slowing down.

There is no place, in the United States above all else, for a company that offers a non-proprietary service/product requiring more overhead than an industrial corporatized entity can offer it for (which is essentially every non-proprietary product).

Your father's business model would only have worked if he either:

1. Cut and ran when the business was booming, before it collapsed.

2. Invented/created the plants he was growing and owned the rights to them.

Your father learned a hard lesson in economics--and unfortunately its one that an economics 101 class could've taught him (and would have in the first 2 weeks of the course) with an example amounting to a comparison of peanut butters.


What you have a problem with is not Scott's/Monsanto. It is capitalism. So let's call it what it is and avoid the scapegoating.

Now, Monsanto/Scott's is a terrible entity for it's own reasons (which are detailed earlier in this thread)--but these don't include putting a chokehold on the little guy.

The consumer has put a chokehold on the little guy by not giving a shit where their product/service comes from so long as it is as cheap as possible.

There are pros and cons to a society that operates this way. One pro is resource efficiency. This is the pro that caused America to become the world's superpower. Our failure to hold to this original plan (as it regards production of goods) is also why we are steadily losing our grip on superpower status (i.e. because we do not make shit anymore--eventually China or India will pass us).

Economists measure this efficiency with something called a production possibilities frontier curve. Instead of explaining it, I'll simply post a picture.

as-macro-employment-unemployment_clip_image010.gif


When we run shit this way, we maximize our economy and our output/throughput.

Unfortunately it means that little guys get pushed out of businesses where they simply are not needed. Where they cannot compete with regard to cost efficiency. It means the death of mom-and-pop. That is the con.

It's not the fault of Monsanto. We should blame Monsanto for, frankly, far worse atrocities the company has committed and will commit in the future. They actually ARE conspiring to completely remove the farmer from farming. Unfortunately this is a transition which, with the advent of factory farms (another consequence of capitalism perpetrated in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY and FOR THE SAME REASONS [consumer greed] that your father was pushed out), was already nearly complete before GMO crops even became widespread.

It's a nail in the coffin, but again--it is the consumer (and in the case of factory farms the flat out consumption) who built the coffin. Monsanto has simply closed it for good. They've done it with our seal of approval as consumers in this country--and don't you forget it.

None of this is an excuse for their attempt to "own" organisms or litigate over "stolen genes" which were simply cross-contaminated. It doesn't excuse their criminal lobbying (purchasing) of congress/the government at large (federal, state, and local).

However, let's be clear about who the real culprit is. It's us.

We are doing this.

We cannot push the blame off on the boogie-man. It doesn't work that way.

We must take responsibility for what our consumer behavior has brought us--else there will be no end to it.

WE THE PEOPLE do not give a flying fuck collectively and that is what gives these companies their power. Its not for lack of litigation or even governance. It is lack of understanding, and the power of the almighty dollar that causes these things to happen.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for your question on M-77:

I can't find a patent filing for this formulation--which means that it is likely not patentable and is instead a protected proprietary formula.

While it might not comfort your friends what this usually means is one (or both) of two things:

1. The product doesn't contain any new chemicals, or chemicals which haven't previously been used as chelants (which facilitate absorption of charged particles across neutral plant membranes)

2. The product is process rather than ingredient dependent. IE, pellets which are milled in a certain way--or chemicals which are mixed in a certain ratio.

Of all of the chemicals to be scared of/worried about--I would rank chelants at the very bottom of the totem pole generally speaking. They tend to actually be beneficial to humans--ridding us of heavy metals and other poisons which may have entered our bodies (such as lead, mercury, or arsenic).

There is usually only cause for concern when they are applied to plants which are themselves in soil containing high concentrations of these metals and poisons--because they can facilitate transport of these chemicals into plants as easily as they do micronutrients.

It is nearly without question that you already dose your plants with chelants on a regular basis--and I can all but assure you that you routinely eat at least one of them (or are at the very least constantly surrounded by it). That chelant being EDTA.

I challenge you to raid your pantry and fridge and find out how many products you use contain this chemical. What you find might alarm you (though it shouldn't).
 
squiggly

squiggly

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If you watched the Superbowl you'll remember the commercial this was spoofed from. This is the real version of that commercial as it relates to America. This is the type of shit that killed your father's business--and it is not the fault of factory farmers and the corporate entities behind them.

We, as consumers, DEMANDED those industries. If we hadn't they wouldn't exist. Greed has fueled these failures. Not the scapegoats you so quickly point the finger at.

If you want a culprit, look at yourself--look at your neighbors.

Once and for all, it is us--not them.

They cannot exist without us, we created Monsanto as much as Monsanto created plants that produce their own pesticides. We own just as much of a share in the guilt as a result. To forget or ignore this is to perpetuate what is ultimately the cause and lifeblood of any and all suffering that Monsanto will cause in the future.



 
We Solidarity

We Solidarity

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so basically my family was capitalized on, due to capitalism, by capitalists with more capitol than us. word. Shit.

and ya i put edta on my salad to increase nutrient uptake :woot:
 
We Solidarity

We Solidarity

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squiggs you make it sound like we had a choice in it all...but how do you have a choice when there are always other capitalists with more capitol than you looking to capitalize on you, even if you're not planning on capitalizing any time soon. "They" created this situation for consumers. and who are they? Capitalists...the people in charge of the corporations that are putting americans out of jobs, making them fat, and making us forget how to care.

"once and for all it's us -- not them"

once and for all it's us AND them - whether we like it or not.


the whole idea of private ownership just seems so sad to me - when you get down to some common sense it actually would appear to be the root of all evil...
 
squiggly

squiggly

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squiggs you make it sound like we had a choice in it all...but how do you have a choice when there are always other capitalists with more capitol than you looking to capitalize on you, even if you're not planning on capitalizing any time soon. "They" created this situation for consumers. and who are they? Capitalists...the people in charge of the corporations that are putting americans out of jobs, making them fat, and making us forget how to care.

"once and for all it's us -- not them"

once and for all it's us AND them - whether we like it or not.


the whole idea of private ownership just seems so sad to me - when you get down to some common sense it actually would appear to be the root of all evil...

It seems retarded--and it is.

The problem is that it's less retarded than what most everyone else has done (other countries that is) from a nationwide success standpoint (at least it was until we wanted stuff SO cheap that we were willing to ship jobs overseas to get it).

If we could get our manufacturing back, it'd be like having our cake and eating it too. That's really what propelled us to a superpower in the first place.

Yes, you said it perfectly.

I would only alter one thing.

During those million dollar days of your dad's business that is when your dad FAILED to capitalize on his success. He should've taken the money and ran at that point--not reinvested it.

The problem with mom-and-pop in capitalism is that they always (erroneously) believe that it can go on forever. By the time its said and done their business eats their profits.

If you're going to do things in perfectly competitive (non-proprietary) markets in a capitalist economy you absolutely must get out when the gettin' is good.

It's not an evil thing really. It's someone else seeing an opportunity to do something better or more efficient than you at it regards the consumer (which means cheaper for them in a nutshell) and taking that opportunity.

It is the economic engine that, at one time, made all American products the best products there ever were.

As I said we lost our manufacturing and thusly half of the benefit of this policy--but when we had it, this was the biggest economic boon for a nation this planet has ever seen.

Unfortunately it was a beast that ate itself (by shipping the manufacturing overseas).

We can turn that around but we will all have to deal with a bit more socialism to get there. IE we will all have to bear a little bit of the cost.

Its like they say, everything in moderation--that goes for capitalism, too.

Your dad found out the hard way that Americans have yet to realize that. They want it now and cheaper, and your dad missed the boat on that one.

It's a sad story, but a common one.

We, collectively, created big business.

Sometimes this is good--for instance we have the most advanced pharmaceutical research capabilities on the planet. Unfortunately we've traded our soul to get them.

We need to take a step back to the 1960s and 70s--but I fear each day that passes we get a bit closer to "too late" for this to be possible.

It's all because you'd rather pay $28,000 for that econo class vehicle than $30,000. It sounds incredibly simple--AND IT IS.

That's why its so frustrating that we have to watch it happen.

Think of it like game theory.


One game theory says the following (in a basic conception):

Imagine we have a 3 lane road, and there is a sign saying that in 2 miles the left lane will close.

If EVERY motorist IMMEDIATELY (and its important to note: unselfishly) decided to merge into one of the two right lanes at the first sign of lane closure--everyone would avoid the bottleneck of traffic.

Unfortunately if EVEN ONE asshole (okay maybe a few more than one in this example--but a low number nonetheless) doesn't do this and decided to zoom down the, now empty, leftmost lane--taking advantage of everyone else's unselfishness--he will still cause traffic to slow.

If enough guys do this, traffic will result anyway and the benefit of being unselfish will be lost for EVERYONE.

The problem is that, as high functioning creatures, before we make our decision about whether or not to merge--we intrinsically understand this choice.

We also understand that there IS AN ASSHOLE who is going to zoom up that left lane. As a result the most intelligent choice immediately becomes to follow suit and try to make it to the front of traffic along with him.

If you live near a big city you might know that sometimes truckers, realizing this, will actually work in tandem to block the closing lane so that no one can zoom up it. In effect the trucker who blocks traffic "takes one for the team" and makes it easier for everyone else to get by (and punishes the selfish people in the leftmost lane).

This is actually very similar to the way the OPEC oil trading organization works. They limit the supply (production) of oil so that they can control the price. They all agree to how much they'll produce. If one country makes more than the others he can take advantage of them and make a huge profit (because he produced more oil and they, having produced less, brought the price up artificially for him). Before penalties were in place, this is why OPEC sucked ass at making money. Since penalties for over-production were put into place OPEC has become one of the most successful organizations, monetarily speaking, to have ever been created.

The problem here is that there is no penalty for taking capitalism too far and being a dickhead about it. There is no penalty for the 1% of consumers who buy the wal-mart peanut butter.

Or the ones who buy the Japanese cars, or what have you.

Because of this, the cheapest price wins and this provides INCENTIVE for companies like Wal-Mart to exist. I won't use Monsanto as an example because they are evil for non-capitalistic reasons. They're just fucking evil in many ways.

Wal-mart is the face of capitalistic evil--but the reality is that WE as consumers created it.

Those "rollbacks" were just too much for our pea brains to handle. We didn't look at it through the lens of game theory. We didn't realize that by frequenting Wal-Mart in 1998, or by buying japanese cars in the late 70s and 80s, that we were being the asshole in the leftmost lane.

That's exactly what we've all done.

Now we've gone SO FAR in that direction that we are ALL in the leftmost lane--just waiting for it to close (my analogy for having lost our comparative advantage in nearly all industries excepting services--especially in manufacturing industries).

I want to blame big companies for it all, too. I can't though--because I know the truth.

I know it was a tiny savings for all of us over an extended period that cost us all a giant loss.

It was consumer greed (and moreso failure to understand the underlying nuance of economics) that cost us in the end.

If we could all go back to 1970, would we do it differently?

If we all knew better, sure. The problem is people still don't want to blame themselves. They want to blame the government, or this company, or that one.

Its us.

It has always been us.

Where those other things have failed, they have done so because we allowed them to--and in some cases even coaxed them into it under duress.

We did it for cheaper peanut butter, and it's a shame. Another country will be the beneficiary in the end if Americans do not educate themselves as to the reality of this.
 
Theoneandonly Z

Theoneandonly Z

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WS, thanks for sharing your first hand experience. Squiggs, i like your input. A little harsh, but also true.

Topics such as these always leave me questioning myself of what can i do... i feel leading by example will make life more strainuous. I worry for my children. Just gotta keep my head up.Z
 
squiggly

squiggly

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WS, thanks for sharing your first hand experience. Squiggs, i like your input. A little harsh, but also true.

Topics such as these always leave me questioning myself of what can i do... i feel leading by example will make life more strainuous. I worry for my children. Just gotta keep my head up.Z

Like I said it's game theory. You'll be the one dude being unselfish while everyone else takes your slice of the nice guy pie.

It's not worth it, and that's the problem.

This is one time where the government could help (and certain aspects of it are trying to).

Unfortunately half the country cries socialism and plays obstructionist in the face of these difficult decisions (and admittedly the other half probably is too married to bureaucracy for their own good).
 
TunaCate

TunaCate

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Monsanto is spawn of the corporate devil. How can a company make herbicide, then be allowed to hold a patent on a seed that survives the herbicide? That's domination on a whole new level. Spray the herbicide EVERYwhere, then hold the only seeds that are viable.
 
jfizzle2cmu

jfizzle2cmu

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Monsanto is spawn of the corporate devil. How can a company make herbicide, then be allowed to hold a patent on a seed that survives the herbicide? That's domination on a whole new level. Spray the herbicide EVERYwhere, then hold the only seeds that are viable.
I think the answer her is don't use herbicide. If u don't want weeds do the manual labor to get rid of them,. Then u won't have to resort to their prison scheme.
 
M

MILO SHAMMAS

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A little bird told me that Monsanto has bought Fox farm. Has anyone else heard this, and can it be confirmed. If this is true im pouring that shit down the drain, and encourage others to do the same. Companies like Monsanto are the enemy of mankind and care only about money.
I had heard this awhile back around December 2011, but then a few store owners posted on another thread regarding the buy out and this is what waas sais over all "a while back and said it was confirmed the Monsanto/Scott's bought fox farms. [rant start] I've learned since that is was Dr. Earth products that they bought and ff is still family owned and they turned down the offer. Just a FYI because I see dr earth in my hydroshop catalog now and Monsanto needs to start fucking off." FOx farm corp has stated they were not purchased.

Maybe something has changed in the last 3 months? ANy true confirmation on the floating rumor?
My name is Milo Lou Shammas and I own Dr. Earth. We are 100% independent of Scott's Miracle Gro and Monsanto and have never sold our company to anyone, nor are we for sale. I also know Willie the owner of Fox Farms personally and I also know he still independent of Scott's Miracle Gro and Monsanto. These are rumors thrown around by cyber bullies working for our competitors because they make terrible products and the only way they can stir things up is to spread ugly rumors that are lies and also don't do the organic community any justice. I AM HERE TO TELL EVERYONE FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL. DR. EARTH IS INDEPENDENT AND HAS NO AFFILIATION WITH MONSANTO OR SCOTT'S. The gentleman's comments above is the smartest one I have read today. Both Monsanto and Scott's are publicly traded companies and "everything" has to be disclosed to the shareholders or they can be fined millions of dollars. The internet is a beautiful platform to learn and grow, but its also a place where rumor-mills can be disseminated free of charge and hurt really good companies trying to do the right thing!
 
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