more on jasmonate usage

[salmonslammer]

Just wanted to post some more info on the use of jasmonate usage during flower for increased trichome production! I found a place that sells a bottle of rose spray http://www.jazsprays.com/Products_ep_28.html it seems that the application rate is half of what is recommended on the bottle.The timing of when u sprtay is up for debate but most people seem too think that half way through flowering is the appropriate timeing.Another concern of some folks is the health issues related too the jasmonateit seems that it is one of the strongest cancer fighting substances known of . here is a linktoo that findinghttp://www.healthsalon.org/382/methyl-jasmonate-for-cancer-treatment/ friends of mine that have tryed jaz report that there is a 30 to 40 percent increase in trich production in sprayed plants!

 

[Aerojoe]

I use at the dosages listed on the bottle, I talked to the rep about why there's differing usage rates out there, and she told me that the bigger bottle is more concentrated than the smaller bottle and to use it according to the dosage on the back.

 

[jyip]

after all these years is there REALLY a miracle spray that increases trich production by 30-40 %,, i remember using gravity and thinking the same thing, tho i dont believe there is any miracle spray that boosts plant growth, thc %, bud size etc..etc... etc...,,,, it doesnt exist, sorry man, i had to tell ya so u dont waste money

 

[squiggly]

after all these years is there REALLY a miracle spray that increases trich production by 30-40 %,, i remember using gravity and thinking the same thing, tho i dont believe there is any miracle spray that boosts plant growth, thc %, bud size etc..etc... etc...,,,, it doesnt exist, sorry man, i had to tell ya so u dont waste money

I was actually drawn to this post because I'd been doing some research (reading some scholarly journals) on increasing terpene production--and I came across some research using jasmonates that seemed promising. I'd already decided to try working with this stuff. To answer your question, the science seems loud and clear to me that this will increase terp production (activates farnesyl pyrophosphate pathway), should also lead to higher THC though that wasn't my concern.

 

[jyip]

thx for trying to answer bruh, one or another it does not make or break me bruh, jus saying IMO nothing, again i say nothing increases growth by 30-40% once again nothing, i will agree with you that it will increase terp's , but will that geez, 40% is near doubling trich output and i will never believe that, but i would have less trouble believing a smaller gain though
pEACE
jyip

 

[squiggly]

it shouldn't boost "trich" production--but it should increase oil production in existing trichs @ around 40%. I imagine this will translate to more trichs but yes 30% is a stretch. I believe this is just a misunderstanding over the action of the compound, it flips on terpene production overdrive, not trich production per se.

 

[salmonslammer]

Another interesting finding is that when 1 plant in a room is sprayed with jasmonate in a room all of the surrounding plants respond with a defense mechanism and increase trich production also .It seems that if there was gonna be a side by side experiment that there would have too be two totally separated areas!Squiggly have you read that in your findings?Also i just received my bottle today so i will let everyone know what my findings are first hand >

 

[420bliss]

is there any products like this avaiable in oregon? http://www.jazsprays.com/Products_ep_28.html they dont ship to oregon :(

 

[Aerojoe]

Another interesting finding is that when 1 plant in a room is sprayed with jasmonate in a room all of the surrounding plants respond with a defense mechanism and increase trich production also .It seems that if there was gonna be a side by side experiment that there would have too be two totally separated areas!Squiggly have you read that in your findings?Also i just received my bottle today so i will let everyone know what my findings are first hand >

Not exactly so in this case, since I believe we are using a different type of jasmonate(dimethyl jasmonate and there's another one I can't remember atm) than the one in the studies that say it will induce response in other nearby plants.

 

[squiggly]

Jasmonates should be volatile compounds for the most part. Supposing they are in the plant and conjugated in various ways they will be less so--but in terms of applying a chemical, this stuff is going to travel throughout the room to be sure.

If you're running negative pressure to an outside exhaust I think you'd be alright to run a side by side, but yes you will need to take some steps to isolate them for sure--it would not be difficult for cross-contamination to occur if you're not careful.

Its important, also--to realize the speed with which gas molecules are free to move about a room. At this scale we find collisions between molecules are almost perfectly elastic--this is part of why pressure acts the way it does. For simplicity's sake we take that to mean thermal excitability is proportional to the velocity of a particle.

A particle of N2 moving freely in a room at room temperature (25C) moves at about 515 m/s. larger molecules will move more slowly--but they are still absolutely zipping around a room, it can be hard to contain something like that without a proper exhaust setup.

 

[salmonslammer]

This is what i mean by plant communication response: talking about volatile MeJA acting as an aromatic PGR and effecting surrounding plants for more than 2 years. I've personally commented elsewhere that my attempts to quantify dosage testing with Methyl Jasmonate and Methyl DihydroJasmonate failed, and I will need separate rooms (or tents) with separated air flow for each test groups to not cross-contaminate each other. cool that it was caught on camera though. Ethylene is another compound that has shown to be a "signal" for certain plants to change their growth cycle, usually off-gassed from nearby rotting vegetation IIRC. So dead plant can talk to the living, in a similar sense...

If you wanna read more about chemically mediated plant communication, do some reading on 'Strigolactones'. Plants 'talk' to other plants, mycorrhizae and even seeds with Strigolactones through the ground .They're just one of the many not well understood chemicals that plants exude through the roots as a form of plant to plant communication. Most known chemically medicated communication happens in the rhizosphere, and communication via volatile compounds dispersed through the air is less common than rhizosphere communications IIRC. Yaay science!

 

[salmonslammer]

Here is another link that helps explain plant communication response with one another :http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...e-another.html there is getting too be some very interesting findings on this topic coming about recently!

 

[salmonslammer]

Another study I recently came across compares the effects of three different elicitors on the accumulation of the terpenoid essential oils in basil over a three-week period.


Terpenoid Essential Oil Metabolism in Basil (Ocimum basilicum L.) Following Elicitation

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n17189964/

While basil is not cannabis, the same effects MAY carry over. The elicitors studied were chitosan, methyl jasmonate, and methyl salicylate.

This is what the study showed:

Chitosan: The plants treated with chitosan resulted in no induction of the monoterpene limonene and the response on concentration of the other terpenoids was more varied compared to methyl salicylate and methyl jasmonate.

Methyl Jasmonate: The plants treated with methyl jasmonate took192 hours after spraying to show a significant increase in terpenoid production, but “resulted in the most uniform response in biosynthesis” compared to the other two elicitors. Methyl jasmonate was the only elicitor that resulted in total percentage increase of β-caryophyllene, 1,8-cinelole, linalool and limonene.


Methyl Salicylate: While induction in the methyl salicylate treated plants occurred faster than with the other elicitors, the total percentage increase of terpenes showed a lower effect on methyl salicylate treated plants.

So, this study seems to show that methyl jasmonate is the most effective of the three elicitors studied in increasing terpenoid essential oils in basil.

The low showing of chitosan is interesting, since it is the active ingredient in so many hydo store potions that claim to increase trichome production.
__________________

 

[salmonslammer]

It's my understanding that while jasmonic acid was named after the jasmine plant, because that is where it was first discovered, researchers tend to use sagebrush, Artemisia tridentata, a plant shown to possess methyl jasmonate in leaf surface structures in much greater quantity than jasmine does. Farmer and Ryan (1990) discovered that jasmonic acid, volatilized from sagebrush, could trigger defense gene expression in adjacent tomatoes


"When sagebrush, Artemisia tridentata, a plant shown to possess methyl jasmonate in leaf surface structures, is incubated in chambers with tomato plants, proteinase inhibitor accumulation is induced in the tomato leaves, demonstrating that interplant communication can occur from leaves of one species of plant to leaves of another species to activate the expression of defensive genes."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC54818/
_

 

[salmonslammer]

Here is some more great and interesting data:Spider mites (Tetranychus urticae) perform poorly on and disperse from plants exposed to methyl jasmonate
Charles L. Rohwer1* & John E. Erwin2
1University of Minnesota Southern Research and Outreach Center, 35838 120th St., Waseca, MN 56093, USA, and 2Department of Horticultural Sciences, University of Minnesota, 305 Alderman Hall, 1970 Folwell Avenue, St. Paul, MN 55108, USA
Accepted: 21 July 2010 Keywords:induced

study (.pdf) here:

http://www.floriculturealliance.org/...ID=491&dID=232

other good data....
http://www.floriculturealliance.org

 

[squiggly]

There is essentially no difference between MeJa and (H20)2MeJa--the second is simply a hydrated form. The annhydrous form is only necessary if you're doing a reaction with the stuff that is water-sensitive.

As for the spider mites fucking off--seems in line with control of defense systems to me.

In the end I think the 3 most important things to terpene production (besides obviously nutrient availability) are (in this order).

1. Genetics (and perhaps hormone mediated responses--which we can toy with).

2. Temperature (should be strain dependent).

3. Light cycle/Intensity (I can't shake the feeling that THC/terpenes are cannabis's sunscreen--the chemistry makes too much sense for it not to be).

 

[Aerojoe]

There is essentially no difference between MeJa and (H20)2MeJa--the second is simply a hydrated form. The annhydrous form is only necessary if you're doing a reaction with the stuff that is water-sensitive.

As for the spider mites fucking off--seems in line with control of defense systems to me.

In the end I think the 3 most important things to terpene production (besides obviously nutrient availability) are (in this order).

1. Genetics (and perhaps hormone mediated responses--which we can toy with).

2. Temperature (should be strain dependent).

3. Light cycle/Intensity (I can't shake the feeling that THC/terpenes are cannabis's sunscreen--the chemistry makes too much sense for it not to be).

hey squiggly, When you say MeJa and 2MeJa are the same, do you mean similar like phosphate/phosphite? don't similar elements still react differently even w/ the minor change in oxygen molecule? is 2MeJa the dimethyl jasmonate? sounds like your saying it is just a water molecule added to it? shouldn't this affect the absorbtion rate?

 

[squiggly]

I said that MeJa and hydrated MeJa are the same--the difference is that the material is conjugated by H2O in the hydrated form.

Look up copper(ii) acetate and copper(ii) acetate hydrate to get a feel for what this looks like/how it works.

As for Dimethyl Jasmonate (which shouldn't be written 2MeJa, that could be misconstrued as 2-methyl-jasmonate which would be another derivative entirely)--I can't seem to find any literature as to its existence. I can say for sure that if there is a Dimethyl Jasmonate--the methyl groups are not on the same position, and so it should be 1, 5-dimethyl jasmonate or something (with the numbers indicating the number on the carbon chain).

There is only room for one methyl group at the place where the first is substituted, not two.

If you have a hydrate--chances are that it hydrates spontaneously. Anhydrous forms are those which have had the water evaporated out of them under an inert atmosphere and which are then preserved and stored carefully away from water.

Some reactions require anhydrous conditions to proceed. For this purpose, any jasmonate derivative you are going to be using will end up hydrated--even if it begins as anhydrous. The water in the air is more than enough to hydrate most compounds which can conjugate with water.

It does effect the chemistry slightly--but not so far as a signaling response would be concerned (any form of this compound would by hydrated in the plant irregardless).

 

[jimbooo]

Interesting concepts being discussed here. I'm very interested to hear first-hand opinions on whether jasmonates actually do result in significant increases in terpene/trichome production.

 

[salmonslammer]

Just thought i would update a little on me spraying with jasmonate! I sprayed half strength of what the bottle says at week 4 and am at week 5 now and sprayed 5 plants out of 15 and am starting too definatly see more frost on the sprayed plants already will update at week 6. oh and another thing is the smell of plants has increased too the point where its now time for a can filter for sure.