First Grow Sunset Sherbert And Superglue

[Phylex]

6 New clones planted 11 days ago in soil. (Three Sherbet and three Super Glue) Only the Sherbet is having issues. When I got the clones home I noticed a faint curl on the edges of one fan leaf. Slowly all three Sherbets had older fan leaves curling and turning a grayish green color. When I grabbed one, it crumbled like dried out shake. For the life of me, I can't quite put my finger on it. I've ran the gamut on possibilities and I'm stumped. It's my first indoor grow. I'll post pics and then my grow notes. Any help would be appreciated. New growth seems ok so far.

 

[Phylex]

Week 1: Day 1 – Nov. 2nd

· Transplanted (6) Clones into 3-gallon solid pots

· Slight curling on some isolated fan leaves from dispensary clones (Sherbet)

· Clones 8-9 inches tall

· Ag-Gen Soil

· Flushed plants with filtered 6.2 PH water @ temp 68 degrees (15 gallons total)

· Flushed soil with Aza Guard 1ml per gallon to kill/prevent pests

· Foliar sprayed (drenching) clones in Aza Guard solution 1 ml per gallon

· 500w HPS approx. 36 inches from the top of the tallest clone

· Lights left on – start 18/6 cycle on day 2 @ 2pm (lights off)

· 24 hr. Tent Temp: 87.8 - 58

· 24 hr. Tent RH: 54%


Week 1: Day 2 – Nov. 3rd

· Timer set for light off @ 2pm

· Light back on @ 8pm – Avoid peak time rates for PG&E charges

· 500W HPS 36” from the top of the tallest clone

· No water

· Air Stone running in filtered water / 5 gallon Home Depot bucket

· 5 gallon Home Depot bucket is always kept full with air stone running 24/7

· 24 hr. Tent Temp: 87.8 - 58

· 24 hr. Tent RH: 47%



Week 1: Day 3 – Nov. 4th

· 500W HPS lowered to 24” from the top of the tallest clone

· Water/Feed 2.5 cups each, at stalk, to keep rockwool moist

· Water Temp 68 degrees, air stoned for 24hours

· Nutrients used (ML dosage is per gallon)

Þ Emerald Harvest Grow A: 2.5ml

Þ Emerald Harvest Grow B: 2.5ml

Þ Root Wizard: 4ml

Þ Emerald Goddess: 2ml

Þ PH 5.8

Þ PPM: 442

· Foliar Sprayed clones one hour after lights off (3pm)

Þ Emerald Goddess: 10ml per gallon

Þ PH 5.7

· 24 hr. Tent Temp: 79-58 degrees

· 24 hr. Tent RH: 54%


Week 1: Day 4 – Nov. 5th

· No Water

· Topped 5 plants, FIM’d 1 plant

· Super cropped the tops to allow more time for lower growth to catch up

· Lowered 500W HPS to 16” from the top of the tallest clone

· 24 hr. Tent Temp: 81 – 55.7 degrees

· 24 hr. Tent RH: 44%


Week 1: Day 5 – Nov. 6th

· No Water

· 24 hr. Tent Temp: 78.5-54.8 Degrees

· 24 hr. Tent RH: 33%


Week 1: Day 6 – Nov. 7th

· Water/Feed – Micro feed 1.5 cups each

· Water Temp 68 degrees / Air stoned for 24 hours

· Nutrients Used (ML per Gallon)

Þ Emerald Harvest Grow A: 4ml

Þ Emerald Harvest Grow B: 4ml

Þ Honey Chome: 2ml

Þ Root Wizard: 7ml

Þ Emerald Goddess: 3ml

Þ PH 6.1

Þ PPM 542

· Added a space heater to stabilize temp.

· Added 1 gallon of water to the catch pan to raise RH

· 24 hr. Tent Temp: 83.8 – 57 degrees

· 24 hr. Tent RH: 25%


Week 1: Day 7 – Nov. 8th

· Water – 7.5 cups each

· Water Temp 68 degrees / Air stoned for 24 hours

· Nutrients Used (ML per Gallon)

Þ Emerald Harvest CAL MAG: 5ml

Þ Super Thrive: 1 drop per gallon

Þ Sturdy Stalk: 5ml

Þ Emerald Harvest PH Down: 25 drops

Þ PH 6.2

Þ PPM 438

· Runoff: PH 6.5 – PPM 564

· Clone height: 8-10”

· 500 HPS – Raised an inch to keep it at 16” from tallest clone

· Still trying to dial in RH – good watering and leaving water in drain pan

· Space Heater connected to reptile thermostat solved big swing in nighttime temps.

· 24 hr. Tent Temp: 83.3 – 68.5 degrees

· 24 hr. Tent RH: 15-36%


Week 2: Day 8 – Nov. 9th

· No Water

· Foliar feed (few sprays each, underside plant leaves) 20 minutes after lights off

· Foliar Spray: Emerald Goddess 10ml per gallon (per EH for foliar spray transplants)

· Pre-existing fan leaves on Sherbet drying out and curling – Not sure why (trying to solve)

· New Growth seems fine

· Raised the 500 HPS light back to 20”

· 24 hr. Tent Temp: 74.5 - 66 degrees

· 24 hr. Tent RH: 15-25%


Week 2: Day 9 – Nov. 10th

· No Water

· 24 hr. Tent Temp: 77.5 – 67.5 degrees

· 24 hr. Tent RH: 15-25%


Week 2: Day 10 – Nov. 11th

· No Water

· Heater accidentally unplugged

· 24 hr. Tent Temp: 74.5 – 50.4 degrees

· 24 hr. Tent RH: 19 – 31%


Week 2: Day 11 – Nov. 12th

· Water/Feed

· Water Temp 68 degrees / Air stoned for 24 hours

· Switched from carbon filtered water to RO water

· Sherbet: 1 Gallon

· Super Glue 2/3 Gallon

· Nutrients Used (ML per Gallon)

Þ Emerald Harvest Grow A: 4ml

Þ Emerald Harvest Grow B: 4ml

Þ Honey Chome: 4ml

Þ Root Wizard: 15ml

Þ Emerald Goddess: 6ml

Þ PH: 5.7 – 6.0

Þ PPM: 553 – 653

Þ Run OFF PH: 6.2-6.4

Þ Run OFF PPM: 624 - 663

· Super Crop all six plants

· 24 hr. Tent Temp:

· 24 hr. Tent RH:

 

[JWM2]

Nute lockout due to low pH. That’s my guess. Maybe some overwatering as well. I like to keep my soils ph near 6.5 personally. To me it looks like phosphorus is getting locked out and that’s why your stalks are turning purple. Nitrogen isn’t too far behind and that’s why the tops are light green.

 

[JWM2]

Apparently we can’t upload gif files anymore. Otherwise I’d post the soil ph chart. I’m sure you can find it on the site using the search.

 

[Phylex]

I noticed the same thing you did about the purple stalks. The clones came that way and I wondered the same thing regarding the phosphorous. I also thought maybe it could be the strain since it came from the dispensary that way. I thought a PH range of 5.8-6.5 is ideal. I know some watering was 5.7, 5.8, but the PH run off seemed to be 6.3 on average. Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[JWM2]

In soil you tend to lock out some nutrients below 6. You can run down to just above 6 but me personally I like to stay in the upper range at 6.5. This way I can drift in either direction a little and not worry about it. A good soil ph meter is a nice tool to have. I have the bluelabs soil ph pen. It works with liquids as well.

 

[Phylex]

Okay, thank you for the feedback. I'll focus on the PH and trying to keep it at 6.5. Hopefully that's it. I wasn't sure if it was burning from the light being lowered to soon, wind burn from both fans running (even though they're on the low settings), or low RH. I don't get any heat from my light because it's in an air cooled hood with a 6" hurricane inline fan. I've ruled out the low RH and I'm just assuming it's not wind burn. I just found it odd. Tips weren't changing color looking burned, and there wasn't and yellowing. It just starts with the very edges of the leaves slightly curling, almost unnoticeable. I guess this is how you learn right.

 

[JWM2]

Just took some more ph measurements in my flowering chamber and my healthiest and most happy plants are in the 6.3-6.7 range. They all fall within that range but the best looking plant is up at 6.7.

I don’t like to go down under 6.3. In fact the plant that is at 6.3 I’ll hit with some liquid limestone to raise its ph a tad the next watering. Once it falls too low it’ll start locking out nutrients and then it’ll get grumpy. Unfortunately plants don’t eat snickers candy bars

 

[JWM2]

This photo shows me its low on nitrogen and phosphorus. Which can also be due to overwatering or a combination of low ph and overwatering. Either way it wants nitrogen and phosphorus and it’s just not getting it.

 

[Phylex]

I just picked up a PH meter for soil and all of the pots measured 7.0

 

[Phylex]

This is how the issue progresses.
Pics 1 and 2 (Is the early sign leaf curl)
Pic 3 (The discoloration that starts)
Pic 4 and 5 (Full discoloration and crisply dried out)

 

[JWM2]

Oh ok. How close are your lights? Light burn can be tricky to diagnose. It was late and I might have missed that. Haven’t been getting much sleep lately. But if your ph is good then it could certainly be light burn.

 

[Phylex]

Day 1: I started at 36"
Day 3: I lowered to 24"
Day 4: Lowered to 16"
Day 8: Raised back up to 20" (Thought it might be the lights)
Day 12: Today, lowered light back down to 16"

I lowered the light in part because I abandoned that being the issue, and there is essentially no heat being radiated from the light due to the hood and inline fan. Previously I thought maybe I rushed the acclimation to the HID, but I also assumed they should be hardened to it by now after 12 days. Also, the conditions of my issue continued to get worse even after the light was raised up to 20". It's a 1000W HPS running at 500W for veg.

So much for an easy, first time, indoor grow. I'm puzzled

 

[MIMedGrower]

I think the plants are overwatered starting with the flushes stayed in the beginning and have consistently been overwatered since.

Also 58 degrees ambient can be even colder at the roots and is too low to sustain good health. The roots are cold and too wet I believe.

I never ph buffered potting soil. The lime or oyster shell in the medium will buffer any decent tap water. So there may be too much acid (ph down) building up which eventually lowers the soil ph over time.

The most important factor in ph’ing Or mixing down with filtered water is to know the source water alkalinity. Too hard will slowly raise ph and eventually block roots. To acidic and it will also lock out nute uptake.

 

[Phylex]

I think the plants are overwatered starting with the flushes stayed in the beginning and have consistently been overwatered since.

Also 58 degrees ambient can be even colder at the roots and is too low to sustain good health. The roots are cold and too wet I believe.

I never ph buffered potting soil. The lime or oyster shell in the medium will buffer any decent tap water. So there may be too much acid (ph down) building up which eventually lowers the soil ph over time.

The most important factor in ph’ing Or mixing down with filtered water is to know the source water alkalinity. Too hard will slowly raise ph and eventually block roots. To acidic and it will also lock out nute uptake.

Overwatering crossed my mind. The initial flush keeps the soil saturated for quite sometime considering the clones going into 3 gallon pots and the roots contained to the rock wool at first. I read somewhere that the soil can draw moisture out of the rock wool and that it can dry it out rather quickly. My thinking was to only add a little bit of water (2.5 cups on day three) to moisten the rock wool knowing the soil was most likely still saturated. I'm used to watering outdoors with 5 gallon jugs once per week, so 2.5 cups seemed like only a little bit. However it may have still been too much. On Day 6 I tried moistening the rock wool again. This time I decided to try less, 1.5 cups, because I was waiting for some supplies to be delivered the following day for the next watering. I was concerned with the leaves drying out thinking they weren't getting enough water, or they were nutrient deficient. I probably made every mistake imaginable in the beginning regarding the watering schedule. I'm trying to figure out the right amount to get on a three day watering schedule. Also, I won't be flushing so hardcore in the beginning next go around. The soil I'm using was nearly bone dry. I have bags of it I purchased in July. It's a custom mix from the hydro store I go to. However next time, I'll most likely just pre-moisten it in a tub and then fill the pots with it.

Since indoor and the set up is brand new to me, it took me about a week or so to work through the internal conditions. I think I have finally solved that issue. The temps should be maintained in the high 60's-70's moving forward. Just one of many hurdles I've had to overcome. It's definitely a process and a reality check. I thought I had a great plan and was going to kill it on my first indoor grow. But this has been a bitter/sweet experience so far only 12 days in. Getting the plants healthy and strong has been an uphill battle I'm still fighting. Live and learn I guess.

 

[Jack og]

She has been stressed a bit.
1. Ph, soil shoot for 6.3
2. Keep her dryer, she looks drenched
3. Air flow, increase intake air as your lights are very powerful for plants at this stage. Bring in more co2 Loaded air or add co2.
4. May wanna uppot or reppot as lockoout symptoms are showing.
5. And great log, love it when the logs are so clean and it’s easy to diagnose from.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Overwatering crossed my mind. The initial flush keeps the soil saturated for quite sometime considering the clones going into 3 gallon pots and the roots contained to the rock wool at first. I read somewhere that the soil can draw moisture out of the rock wool and that it can dry it out rather quickly. My thinking was to only add a little bit of water (2.5 cups on day three) to moisten the rock wool knowing the soil was most likely still saturated. I'm used to watering outdoors with 5 gallon jugs once per week, so 2.5 cups seemed like only a little bit. However it may have still been too much. On Day 6 I tried moistening the rock wool again. This time I decided to try less, 1.5 cups, because I was waiting for some supplies to be delivered the following day for the next watering. I was concerned with the leaves drying out thinking they weren't getting enough water, or they were nutrient deficient. I probably made every mistake imaginable in the beginning regarding the watering schedule. I'm trying to figure out the right amount to get on a three day watering schedule. Also, I won't be flushing so hardcore in the beginning next go around. The soil I'm using was nearly bone dry. I have bags of it I purchased in July. It's a custom mix from the hydro store I go to. However next time, I'll most likely just pre-moisten it in a tub and then fill the pots with it.

Since indoor and the set up is brand new to me, it took me about a week or so to work through the internal conditions. I think I have finally solved that issue. The temps should be maintained in the high 60's-70's moving forward. Just one of many hurdles I've had to overcome. It's definitely a process and a reality check. I thought I had a great plan and was going to kill it on my first indoor grow. But this has been a bitter/sweet experience so far only 12 days in. Getting the plants healthy and strong has been an uphill battle I'm still fighting. Live and learn I guess.

I’ve never used rockwool and guess I can see how it could clash with the soil moisture. Don’t know how to advise on that.

The plants can recover. Let them dry out real good. I use a moisture meter and can tell by weight now but the meter will read in the dry zone 3/4 the way down the pot before I see the plant need water in ocean forest with perlite added. Worked good for pro mix too at that dryness.

I disagree with trying to transplant deficient stressed plants. It never worked out too well for me anyway.

I would always try to stabilize the situation at hand before transplanting or flowering.

Also maybe next time start plants in party cups or 1 gallon pots. You can saturate them to runoff and simply wait for them to dry. Even if it’s a week for the tiny plants. The roots will search out moisture and nutrients more through the drier soil and fill the entire pot with roots. Then transplant up and do it again.

Way harder to overwater the proper sized pot.

 

[Phylex]

She has been stressed a bit.
1. Ph, soil shoot for 6.3
2. Keep her dryer, she looks drenched
3. Air flow, increase intake air as your lights are very powerful for plants at this stage. Bring in more co2 Loaded air or add co2.
4. May wanna uppot or reppot as lockoout symptoms are showing.
5. And great log, love it when the logs are so clean and it’s easy to diagnose from.

So moving forward, I'll start with letting the pots dry out significantly before adding any more water. When I do water, I'll start with less and see how that goes. I'll prioritize monitoring the soil more closely and try to figure out what works best to keep it between 6.3 and 6.5. Today I plan on picking up one of those CO2 bags to hang in the tent for a little added CO2. Thank you for the compliment about the log. I've also been transposing it into a powerpoint slideshow with daily pics for each slide. (granted I've missed one or two days because I was out of town.)

I guess my next question is how to approach the next watering since it seems I have a lot going on at once. (since my last water was a full feed) Should I just water with RO? RO+CAL/MAG? RO+CAL/MAG+SuperThrive? RO+CAL/MAG+SuperThrive+Sturdy Stalk? The latter was scheduled to be my next watering. I'm sort of at a loss because it is stressed, it's showing signs of some deficiencies, but I don't want to over fertilize either. Any Suggestions for the next watering when its due?

I raised the light this morning to 28". I'll keep it high for now so I can rule that out. Once I solve the issues at hand and start getting some healthy growth back for a bit, I'll play with lowering the light to an optimal range.

I also redirected the oscillating fan to more of a neutral position rather than directly blasting the top of the plants. I did the same with the lower clip fan. Before this the plants were being blown around pretty significantly.

 

[Phylex]

I’ve never used rockwool and guess I can see how it could clash with the soil moisture. Don’t know how to advise on that.

The plants can recover. Let them dry out real good. I use a moisture meter and can tell by weight now but the meter will read in the dry zone 3/4 the way down the pot before I see the plant need water in ocean forest with perlite added. Worked good for pro mix too at that dryness.

I disagree with trying to transplant deficient stressed plants. It never worked out too well for me anyway.

I would always try to stabilize the situation at hand before transplanting or flowering.

Also maybe next time start plants in party cups or 1 gallon pots. You can saturate them to runoff and simply wait for them to dry. Even if it’s a week for the tiny plants. The roots will search out moisture and nutrients more through the drier soil and fill the entire pot with roots. Then transplant up and do it again.

Way harder to overwater the proper sized pot.

Absolutely! Even though I didn't mention it in what I would do differently next time, starting in smaller pots is definitely the route I'm going to take. I bought a moisture meter yesterday along with the soil ph meter. So I'll definitely being using that and looking for those ranges.

 

[captiankush]

I've used ag gen soil before and its pretty hot. In fact, to be honest, it shouldnt need any nutrients at this point. Just RO.

I use rockwool in soil all the time, I have never observed a time when the soil drew water out of the rockwool, in fact I've observed quite the opposite. Did you remove the wrapper before planting? I assume so but it doesnt hurt to ask.

Regarding the clones, they look really leggy, usually this happens because of low light intensity.

If you got the clones from elemental or harborside they should come pre hardened and ready for hps, if purple lotus, I cant speak on what they do, dont know who supplies their clones.

Also, I might suggest heading to ag gen on the 17th, they are having the growing with ed rosenthal class that day and it has more expertise than 90% of the internet.

Lastly, my advice is let them dry out until the rockwool is bone dry, a couple days. Then resume watering with ro only, keep the light 12-16 inches from the canopy. If you come to the class, bring photos and notes.

CK