Neeedd Coco Pro, Coco Ph Problem.. Help...

[jack mehaulf]

Hi all,
I've had this coCo ph problem for awhile, first let me say I have looked everywhere and talked to people in person read a few forums, thought about it and came to my own conclusions, whatever I have tried a few things,

OK here is my grow set up and problems ,

.1000w dim, switch ballast 8 inch cool tube currently on mh 400w
.5x5 tent,
8 inch max fan pro series 780 something cfm,
.RO water
.9 plants in about 3Rd week of veg (they are off to a slow start I feel because of my problem and being new to coco)
.5 gal black pots filled with coco and a couple scoops of perlite
I flushed it cleaned it to drop ec,

They sit in a flour tray with a hole on one side, my tent sits on a raised roundation and has a small amount of grade about a inch of fall over there 5 feet, and that drain s into a pan I have under the foundation and gets pumped out,

I first stated in small 4x4 pots and noticed that after I flushed the coco and I gave them a very mild dose of nuts at 5.8
the ph would not go down almost atall the run off was at about 7.0 high 6 , on a scale set up like that with the small pots it was easy to see how rediculous it was to put in the good ph water and get out bullshit, I know the coco alone is at about 6.2 or so,

I'm thinking about changing my nutes... maybe

I'm running general hydro flora nova right now
with floralicious and root start and call mag, I'm feeding every water at about 400 to 700 ppm .6 ec or so 1.0,

And they are surviving but I have noticed some N toxic so I reduced the amount of nova and feed for of the additives and flushed hard,
.. Sorry it's getting long and ramblingg..


ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED
THANKS IN ADVANCED
I'd vee really happy to hear a good solution

 

[tobh]

Pic would be an excellent help. Not real sure what you're seeing otherwise bud ;) get some pics up and we can help you out further. From the sounds of it though you're feeding at too high of ph (for my personal liking in coco). I shoot for 5.5 and sometimes (on RARE occasion) feed as low as 5.0 due to the nutrient availability in particular ranges. Testing runoff is a piss poor way of knowing what's going on in coco as well, you need to make a slurry with the medium from inside the root ball (a total pita ime).

Anyways, get some pics up and I'll see what I can do for ya.

One Love,
tobh

 

[jack mehaulf]

Ok Thanks I am trying but my images are to large I might have to take some in a lowe res. When I get home
thanks for the quick reply

 

[jack mehaulf]

That's all I can get for now they are LST now
but I'm not concerned with the looks really I know I still need to get my nutes system down, and I've been taking it pretty easy,
but having the nutes higher is the only thing that helps too lower ph atall

Just ph ING water alone is not a strong enough buffer the nuts solution is a much much stronger buffer

As u can tell from it needing more ph up or down to change it,
so I'm really just looking

For someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong and what u guys do,
is it my nutes? Brand formula,

Should I try a more coco specific brand, formula??????

I just don't get it

Is it the ec is to high or low?

Should I get organic nutes or ph perfect type deal so the nutes can get absorbed in a wider range?

 

[jack mehaulf]

I can describe them,

Some of the fan leaves are a little to dark I think not crazy but a little dark
on this one strain I have the leaves claw up like a taco not bad but a little and they want to twist alittle,
and this blue dream strain I have the leaves on the one that I noticed started curling down and eventually one fan leaf started to taco down from the center vein if that helps

But I understand it is just from the nuts being alittle off I'm getting used to it, but my main concern is the ph and how to lower it

 

[jack mehaulf]

I understand I need to get my nutrients down,

My only concern is with the ph,
does anyone have this problem

And I know the run off is not exactly,
but WHEN U DUMPPPPP
5.5 SOLUTION IN A POT AND GET 100 PERCENT RUN OFF OF 6.6 SOMETHING IS OFF
rightt????
I'm thinking about just going organic so they can be healthy and absorb nuts all over the ph board

 

[tobh]

They look perfectly healthy to me. Nice rich color, new growth looks healthy. You want to pH your solution after adding nutes. No point in pH'ing it prior to as the nutrients are pre-buffered and pH'ing before and after just raises your EC which is not how you want to raise it. You're feeding them proper for their age.

The way I do it is I'll slowly increase my EC until I see claw and leaf tip burn then back off until they're happy with whatever they're getting. I also avoid anything higher than 2.2 EC at the peak feeding (week 4-5 of flower). Just feed a bit lower of pH like I said and make sure to get 10-20% run off just to avoid salt build up.

Just because your run off pH is 6.6 doesn't mean that's the pH within your medium. I think you're relying on the numbers too much and not listening to what your plants are telling you. They look happy and healthy, just keep doing what you're doing until the problems you think are there really show themselves. Too much love will kill em as easily as neglect, and coco is hella forgiving.

One Love,
tobh

 

[tobh]

On the subject of runoff, I don't test my runoff at all. There's no point. You can look at my grow, it's linked in my sig. Straight coco with canna a&b, bioroot and general hydro calmag+. Hell, I quit even checking my EC and pH halfway through flower and rely soully on what the plants are telling me. No numbers will tell you what your plants haven't already.

 

[Growin Grass]

Looking good
I'd just keep doing what your doing
Don't forget coco needs watered everyday don't let it dry out like soil

 

[Shamus]

those pics look fine man

 

[jack mehaulf]

Mmmm... alright
I do understand how to ph water I always ph after putting in nutes lol,

But I hear what u guys are say Fer sure thanks all, I like the " to much will kill as fast as neglect"
I understand... alittle I just wish my numbers corasponded...

But I deffiencys appreciate it I think I will try that just monitoring the plants witch just have and I did notice some signs of error I thought like the nitrogen and leaf curl..


So to some it up you guys think I should be more concerned with the ec and how much I feed over the actually PH?

 

[tobh]

Both need to be monitored and set appropriately. 1.2 - 2.2 EC with a gradual curve throughout the entire grow, pH 5.5 - 6.0 every watering. Never feed straight water, always a minimum of 25% of your normal feedings. EC and pH go hand in hand, wrong pH range and right EC can be as detrimental as right pH range and too high EC. A lot of times it's not a toxicity but more so a lock out from other nutrients or pH swing. This is where understanding what exactly your nutes are and what they're providing comes in to play. I've never messed with floranova but I've seen some straight fire grown with it. You should make a solution, let it sit for 24 hours and see what happens with the pH. I know some lines required stabilization before feeding.

You can check out a program called hydrobuddy, it'll give you a much better understanding of how you're feeding your plants and nutrient availabilities. There's also various threads here that talk about antagonism and lockout concepts. Coco is your opportunity to gain more knowledge than you care to have about how your plant eats considering it is an inert media and should be treated as such, imo.

One Love,
tobh

EDIT: http://blog.bghydro.com/2012/02/03/bghs-no-stress-guide-to-ph-and-tds/

Took the liberty of a quick google search. This has a good diagram and explanation of things for you.

 

[jack mehaulf]

That sounds very wise thank you
I will cheak out some different feeding concepts

 

[Storm Raven]

When I first started growing in coco coir I had pH problems too. At the time I was using Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow and Bloom hydro nutrients. A friend recommended I switch to a nutrient solution designed for coco coir and I switched to Advanced Nutrients Monkey Juice Grow and Bloom hydro nutrients. Just doing this made my pH stabilization problems go away as soon as I switched.

I did not catch what nutrients you were using but try using one designed for coco coir.

 

[jack mehaulf]

That's just the kind of feed back I wanted to hear thank you, I am using flora nova series, grow and bloom and floralicious root start, and botanicare calmag

Were you doing run off tests? What was Ur ph problem like? Did u flush and flush and fuckin stay the same

 

[Storm Raven]

I found that using the coco coir my plants did best with a pH of 6.0 to 6.5. This is a little higher than most hydro growers like but for some reason the coco coir likes the pH closer to a soil pH. I got really great results with coco coir.

If I recall right I would get my nutrient level correct then the pH and the next day the pH had dropped a lot. I was using pH up everyday. Once I started using the Monkey Juice I never had to adjust the pH again.

 

[jack mehaulf]

So Ur ph was to low?
we're you getting Ur readings from runoff?

 

[Storm Raven]

So Ur ph was to low?
we're you getting Ur readings from runoff?

yes was to low and no I never checked the runoff just everyday when I refilled my reservoirs.

 

[Storm Raven]

Try using a nutrient solution designed for coco coir and shoot for a higher pH of 6.0 to 6.5.

 

[jack mehaulf]

Yeah that is different from my situation