Contact Us
Want to advertise here? Contact us today to begin

Nitrogen In Flower....

Discussion in 'Nutrients and Fertilizers' started by Greenshark, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. I use plagron coco a and b. There is no veg and bloom, they state that they can be used in either..... I think this is where my problem is. Everything was going smooth till week 2 of flower. basically they started showing signs of burn even on a very little feed of nutes ( 1.2ec ) I flushed, and started again. Starting low at 0.8 ec and rising it to 1.4. Now they're showing signs of tip burn again and N toxicity! I have ran these nutes at much stronger doses with no problems but not with this strain. The NPK 5-3-4 or something similar but I know the N is 5 percent..... I'm guessing in flower this is too much as every other bloom feed I have seen is between 1-2 percent N. it's annoying because they were showing signs of N toxicity so I can't up the EC but they're showing other problems now like lack of strength in the branches. The buds are falling over all over the place and I can only put it down to a lack of nutes. Obviously the more nutes a put in, the more N they're getting ( too much N )

    I'm about to go and buy some bloom feed with zero N in. Would this be the right way to go before I waste my money. Is 5 percent N too much in flower and is this causing my problems? Any help would be much appreciated as I've had enough lol!!
     
  2. jumpincactus

    jumpincactus Premium Member Supporter

    10,643
    32,212
    438
    You are correct. You want very minimum to 0 N during flower phases. If you used good nutrients during veg the plant should have enough stored N in its tissues to be able to get it to the finish line. Focus more towards P & K during flower along with a good micro nute package. In flower I run 0-13-14
     
    Ina and Greenshark like this.
  3. Thanks for the speedy reply! I will never use plagron coco a and b again. Do you think I'm right in thinking that my plants are crying out for micro nutes and p and k because I have never been able to go over 1.2 ec without them showing signs of burn but the burn must have been purely from too high levels of N. There is no vigour in the branches what so ever. They seem soft and bud development has slowed down big time and I would like to see much more crystals on them at this stage. They are big plants with over 20 main cola sites on each plant so feeding them 1.0-1.2 ec is pitiful for what they could be on. They have fully rooted our 40 litre smart pots ( ten gallon smart pots ) .

    Would you advise giving them a full flush to get the N out and then starting on my new feed at a higher EC? Again, thanks for the reply. I've had enough of these lol.
     
    jumpincactus likes this.
  4. jumpincactus

    jumpincactus Premium Member Supporter

    10,643
    32,212
    438
    A flush never hurts especially when you run longer veg times to get a good structure before initiating flower. As for your present ec ya you could be higher for sure. Focus on a good balance of p and k and some micros and with a good flush see if this helps at all. A little tip burn isn't a huge deal but N toxicity can actually cause weak stems and branches. One would think that the opposite would be true with excess N stems and branches would be mega sturdy and tough. But that isn't the case.
     
  5. You have just made me feel a whole lot better about this. It makes perfect sense. Most of the plants leaves are slightly clawed and most are very dark. There is clearly an abundance of N. especially when you say that too much N causes week branches because I have never seen a plant bend like it is with the weight of the buds at the moment. I'm on say 33 since 12/12 and there is no way they should be dropping like they are. There are two plants out the 12 that are very dark green and they are the worst ones in regards to droop so they much have N toxicity from the plagron nutes ( 5-4-3 ) will the strength come back at all or will they be permanently drooped now. It's going to take me hours tying them all up tonight. I have just bought 50 of those yellow yoyo things. I've added a few pics of the structure so you get an idea that they should be on way more than 1ml of a and b per litre, I'm feeding them such a baby dose of nutes. It has to be N toxicity. My PK is being raised via something called green sensation. When used in conjunction with the plagron a and b it equates to 5-13-14. It's an all in one booster. Multi-enzymes, PK, booster and something else. It's organic but very very expensive.

    First pic is a week before flip.
     
    IMG_1909.JPG
    IMG_2035.JPG
    IMG_2066.JPG
    Ina and jumpincactus like this.
  6. jumpincactus

    jumpincactus Premium Member Supporter

    10,643
    32,212
    438
    Very nice canopy of colas there. :D
     
    Ina and Greenshark like this.
  7. Plan of action tonight then is to flush every plant out. Yoyo the hell out of them ( that pic was 3 days ago, the cannopy does not look like that now. Near enough every branch has moved a considerable amount downward. ) I'm about to go and get my a and b. I'm going to just go for it with the new nutes as they will have zero N in. Really appreciate your help. Fingers crossed!!
     
    jumpincactus likes this.
  8. jumpincactus

    jumpincactus Premium Member Supporter

    10,643
    32,212
    438
    you got this man!!!
     
    CaliRooted and Greenshark like this.
  9. I have OCD with certain things and everything has to be perfect and right or I think about it all the time lol. I have to get second opinions and I didn't know that too much N causes week branches! That hit the nail on the head really. Thanks again!
     
    Ina and jumpincactus like this.
  10. jumpincactus

    jumpincactus Premium Member Supporter

    10,643
    32,212
    438
    Excess of nitrogen in marijuana plants:
    [​IMG]
    Claw-shaped leaves

    By contrast, excess nitrogen in marijuana plants can also cause trouble, reducing their yield and flower quality. Nitrogen overfeeding can be noticed when the following symptoms appear:

    • Excessive foliage growth.
    • Weak stems.
    • Delayed ripening of fruits, being less sweet.
    • Claw-shaped leaves facing down.
    • Poor bud combustion.
    • Bright green leaves.
    • Little resistance to pests in general.
    To solve this, wash the plant roots using triple the capacity of the pot of water and low levels of EC. Test the EC (water conductivity) to find out the salt saturation in the substrate, and if the case is extreme, don’t stop washing the roots until the nutrient levels in the substrate are the same than the water we are using for flushing.

    There are products specifically designed to dilute salts and help washing the soil for a quicker recovery.

    How does cannabis recover from excess nitrogen
    Cannabis, as mentioned above, is capable of showing its health through its look, so it is easy to find out the health state of our plants by carefully observing their leaves, colour, shape, etc.

    Whether the plant has been over-fed or if it has suffered a lack of nitrogen, cannabis always takes a few days to recover. The speed of recovery will always depend on the degree of deficiency or excess suffered by the plant, so early detection will always allow a better recovery of the plant in a shorter period of time.

    Depending on the substrate and fertilisers used, plants may recover slower or faster. In hydroponic systems, the speed of recovery is much faster than in crops grown in soil with organic fertilisers. As mentioned at the beginning of this post, the form in which these nutrients are dispensed greatly determines the absorption speed.

    During the growth phase and in the event of a light over-fertilisation, you will need to reduce or eliminate the fertilizer for growth used in your nutrient solution.

    [​IMG]
    Deficiency of nitrogen progress

    If you are using marijuana additives, you can keep on using them normally as they contain no nutrients, only elements that make the plant metabolize the excess nutrients and produce more leaves, branches…in short, they allow the plant to use all the available nutrients correctly.

    During the flowering phase, if you over-fertilise your plants you will need to act according to the stage of the crop. If it happens during the first two weeks after the photoperiod change, you should do as you would during the growth phase, since the plants still grow almost until the 3rd week, which is when buds begin to develop.

    However, if the plant is already starting to bloom, excess nitrogen is not very common, but if this is the case, remove the fertiliser used and add a PK-based fertiliser, which contains no extra nitrogen. In this way, your plants can continue to produce buds whatever the stage they are while the excess nitrogen is eliminated. If the over-fertilization is heavier, you can wash the roots previously to clean the substrate from the excess nutrients. After this, water thoroughly with the right amount of PK.

    https://www.alchimiaweb.com/blogen/deficiencies-excesses-nitrogen/
     
    Ina and Greenshark like this.
  11. If I could super like that reply, I would! Very helpful. Just got back from the room. Even worse today. I'm only 4.7 weeks in and no buds are pointing up anymore. Completely flopped. I've added a photo below of one plant. All in that is one plant, even though this is one of the better ones, If you look closely around the plant you can see slight clawing, especially on new growth leaves. Like I said, this is one of the good ones. There is one that is very clawed, dark green and the leaves are very shiny. That plant has literally no strength at all in its branches. Even the big thick branches have flopped so this whole thing must be down to excess N. it's really confusing because a lot of the big name coco nutrients contain 5 percent N in their bloom feed?
     
    IMG_2068.JPG
    Ina and jumpincactus like this.

  12. As above ^
     
  13. jumpincactus

    jumpincactus Premium Member Supporter

    10,643
    32,212
    438
    better get to bustin out those yo yos bro. Do your rinse and use nothing that contains N at all. Even be careful of some of the calmags as some of them have N in them as well. I stop all N inputs around 1 week from flip. The plant will ride out its life with the N it stored during veg.
     

  14. I did the yoyoing earlier mate. I used 6 canes in each plant, made a ring out of thin rope and I slid it up the canes so all the branches now rest on the rope and I used yoyo's on the remaining floppy ones. Would too much N have such a detrimental effect on branch strength or am I just growing heavy ass buds lol! Can you see the clawing I am talking about? You have to zoom in and look round but you can see it.
     
    jumpincactus likes this.
  15. jumpincactus

    jumpincactus Premium Member Supporter

    10,643
    32,212
    438
    Well you are growing some fat colas. Most every strain will struggle at some point supporting the flowers even with N issues.
     
    Greenshark likes this.

  16. This is true. I don't have a huge amount of grows under my belt and I've never had them droop so much within this time frame before. I'm normally yoyo'ing the last few weeks of flower you see. I did let them get a little cold on the night during the first week of stretch which made them stretch like hell and the branches went a little thin up top.