phytochrome manipulation

[dogznova]

like I said.. Try 14hrs of HPS and 2-3 mins of FR at nightfall from day 1 of flowering.

Trust me.. You will get a 1/2 flowering 1/2 vegging plant..

Been there done that, more than once..

 

[Desertboy]

Since Pr-Prf is almost instant transformation it's far far better to pulse the light during the dark period than on for a few minutes at a time this is what I do by continually flashing FR over the dark period we also reduce/eliminate the risk of hermies through light leaks.

I had to use a circuit I bought off ebay to control a relay to do it 1 second on every 3 minutes for lights off.

We've had a lot of success with strawberries (Extending their season) and chrysanthemums forcing flowering under lighting. At the moment though we're growing chillies which are meant to be day neutral but we've definetly noticed a difference in flower formation under 12/12 (3-4 times faster) one wonders if autos will exhibit the same traits.. I've not treated chillies with FR yet that will be the next grow.

I no longer grow cannabis but have several tents running at any one time full of legal plants.

I've grown plants under 14 hours lights 10 hours dark flashing FR at them (Also more than once) and I never saw a half/half I got healthy plants that went fully into flower and yielded well.

Maybe you should try different strains next time, get a better FR lamp or increase the intesity of FR although I use a 17w lamp to cover 9m2 floor area with no issues. I've been told I cover twice that area no issues.

I purchase my FR lamps directly from philips grow lighting department I don't use Chinese no name crap.

 

[dogznova]

I have that philips light bulb myself.. I have 3 of them. lol

I can assure you it takes longer than 2 to 3 mins of Far Red at sundown to get 2 extra hours of 'critical darkness' in cannabis.

The only way to tell if the lighting schedule (chosen) works correctly is by using the lighting schedule from DAY 1 of flowering.

If after 21 days of flowering and your plants are in full bloom. Then the lighting schedule chosen is correct.

But running a 14/10 lighting schedule from week 4 to week 7 or so in flowering 'after flowers are in full bloom' and thinking the chosen lighting schedule is correct. Well chances are it's not correct.. Unless it's checked from DAY 1 of flowering.

As stated above. The only way to correctly measure that the critical darkness is being meet, is to use the 14/10 schedule from day one and see if the flowers go into full bloom just as a 12/12 schedule would. Approx 21 days after flowering starts = full bloom in most strains..

I'm not saying you're doing this. "Waiting till week 4 or 5 before running a 14/10 flowering schedule".

I'm just saying most if not all growers that run a 14/10 flowering schedule starting at week 4 or 5. Why? because if they started it from DAY 1 of flowering. They would see the lighting schedule is not correct and end up with a 1/2 flowering 1/2 vegging flower.

Yes. Pr-Prf is almost an instant transformation. Correct. It def depends on intensity.

Let me ask you this.

Why wouldn't we all be running a 14/10 flowering schedule. If all it took was using Far Red for 2 to 3 mins at sundown to get 2 extra hours of critical darkness.

Hell most would be running Far Red for 30 mins and thinking they are getting 6 hours of critical darkness and try running a 18/6 flowering schedule.. Again, not gonna work. lol

Switching pr-prf is only half the trick.

 

[Desertboy]

Of course I ran from day 1 of flowering why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't anyone?

Why don't we all run Martian method like you suggested! Because it's hassle! I can take 2g/w everytime and those that know me know I'm not lying but it's hassle.

People will follow the path of least resistance just like electricity.

Since you have the same philips 3 of them can you take a picture with one of them so I can get the code off the side please then I can compare your light. It doesn't matter if you have the US code I have the universal catalouge.

This link has a pic of my FR lamp in action (I have 8 of them)

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/phytochrome-manipulation.29747/page-4#post-597999

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

OK so tell me this i have brought over two trusted grower friends that have looked at my issues and they both said separately those look more like 25-30 days of flower rather than just re veg we all agree that they are re veg confused and have done something very funny now my IR lights were on for a 12/12 during the entire dark period(Mind you this was not intended) I have cut the IR off and they are now under a solid 12 12 lights dark could this have force slowed the plants and now they are just behind in flower rather than being a month in a half in and not flowering well?????

 

[Desertboy]

IR is not FR!

 

[dogznova]

Here is my FR lamp.

 

[dogznova]

Here is my Flower Initiator LED FR lamp.

 

[dogznova]

Damn from that box pic, the numbers look blurry as hell, sorry bout that.
I can post the numbers if you need them off the box itself.

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

I understand that but my question was not about FR if u go back one page my question was about infared cameras in my grow room

 

[dogznova]

If I understand correctly.. U ran 12 hrs HPS and 12 hrs of IR?

I'm wondering if that IR camera has blue light contamination.

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

You know that is a great question the only problem with answering that is i have asked the companies that make the camera if they know the light color or at least the part number or maker for them and they are clueless have never had that question before they tell me i would have to back track all the way down the chain of command all the way back to the manufacturer of the bulbs themselves to get an answer

 

[Desertboy]

Bizarre mine is quite different to that never even heard of E26 fitting we have E27 I assume it's compatible. Mine has a round top not square.

I did wonder as I knew my lamp was only available in the EU. I bet the LED's are the same though only changed the casing for some reason.

I use these



I have to source direct from phillips as no one sells them to the public (At least at a good price) this side of the pond stateside I imagine it's a lot easier to get these sort of things. Mine has a frosted glass effect top.

I purchased some "FR" led's from satisled and they were no at all FR lol (They were IR 850nm) which has really put me off any chinese sourced lights although no doubt phillips make these in China.

I'll try and get a pic of the inside of mine (The lid fell off one of mine) tonight.

How much did your lamp cost?

Mine cost me ~$40 each for 17w but they retail here for $70 each (although there is only 1 shop that sells them and it's not a grow shop.)

 

[Desertboy]

I use something like this connected to a relay to pulse my lights

http://www.apogeekits.com/pulse_pause_timer_electronic_kit_mk188.htm

 

[dogznova]

Here is the link to the Philips ones I have.. $55 plus shipping.. Not to bad.

 

[Desertboy]

Here is the link to the Philips ones I have.. $55 plus shipping.. Not to bad.

That's an excellent price at retail much cheaper than the UK typical though.

 

[dogznova]

You know that is a great question the only problem with answering that is i have asked the companies that make the camera if they know the light color or at least the part number or maker for them and they are clueless have never had that question before they tell me i would have to back track all the way down the chain of command all the way back to the manufacturer of the bulbs themselves to get an answer

Unfortunately IR is 850nm and up.. Not sure how much the plant absorbs of it. It's pretty far up the NM scale. None the less.. Some folks have done testing with IR for night time 'critical darkness' manipulation. I just never heard the results. Sorry.

Some strains are hard to get into full bloom even with FR 730 nm 'critical darkness' manipulation. Especially if blue light is present past the 12 hour mark.

Blue light is a veg trigger.

It's much easier to manipulate the 'critical darkness' if no BLUE light is present past the 12hr mark.

Lets use outdoors as an example..

Outdoor uses FR to manipulate the 'critical darkness' BUT mother nature also removes blue light. How you ask? By tilting the earth away from the sun. The more the earth tilts away from the sun.. The less BLUE light the plants receive. Both blue light intensity and duration are affected by earth's tilt.

So yes outdoors can flower most strains under a 14/10 flowering schedule BUT it takes the combination of both things to make it work correctly.

Back to your situation.

Not sure what's going on with the IR camera.. But strange looking flowers can only mean one of two things.. Either the 12hrs of 'critical darkness' wasn't being met or there was BLUE light contamination during the 12hrs of dark time..

 

[pzee]

like I said.. Try 14hrs of HPS and 2-3 mins of FR at nightfall from day 1 of flowering.

Trust me.. You will get a 1/2 flowering 1/2 vegging plant..

Been there done that, more than once..

I would like to chime in here to both of you guys. First if all, Im siding with dogsnova here, because he's done this. There are more than one kind of signalling pathway in weed plants, theyre probably not all known so you cant really quote science when it really hasnt been studied in that level of detail in a lab. If you dont trust him I agree and think you should try it yourself. You will probably end up with some airy buds, just like in the video.

Secondly Id like to ask your opinion. I have experienced a semi related phenomena. Norcal, no flower initiatir involved, just natural outdoor light all day. Before june when the days are long the plants are kept in veg by running very bluish florescent lights at night for hours. They veg quite perfectly like that. Then June 20th the light go off cuz the days are long enough to keep them in veg. Then, sometimes - plants that we want to get bigger we turn the lights back on at night in july, the result is not a happy veg. It is the tallest skinniest branches youve ever seen, that eventually produce tiny buds, its horrible. Ive done this many times. Ive tried to figure out why it happens but I promise you that it does, any strain, and it will happen to you if you try it. Here is my theory, past june 20, that far red light starts hitting at sunset, after that happens the blue lights come on and the plants wind up confused somehow and halfway veg halfway flower but more on the veg side in this scenario. The result sucks Ill tell you that. Id like to hear if anyone has input on this.

 

[Mendoli]

This is an older thread, but it hits upon a topic that I’ve been actively seeking information on, which is how to PREVENT FLOWERING on plants moved outdoors by splashing them with 660nm red light. Everyone is geeking out on the paramters and anecdotal potential for indoor growing, but what are some real-life uses for red light. Example: get a red light, and do this or this. It seems like no one is actually using this technique? Anyone who understands the science of phytochromes please elaborate. Can red light be used to “gas light” outdoor plants to prevent immediate flowering in April when moved from an indoor grow area under 18/6?

 

[Homesteader]

This is an older thread, but it hits upon a topic that I’ve been actively seeking information on, which is how to PREVENT FLOWERING on plants moved outdoors by splashing them with 660nm red light. Everyone is geeking out on the paramters and anecdotal potential for indoor growing, but what are some real-life uses for red light. Example: get a red light, and do this or this. It seems like no one is actually using this technique? Anyone who understands the science of phytochromes please elaborate. Can red light be used to “gas light” outdoor plants to prevent immediate flowering in April when moved from an indoor grow area under 18/6?

Yes it should depending how much light you use and how long the splash is. You may be better off using white light though as phytochrome isn't the only pigment involved. One study I have seen said that 660nm in brasssica wasn't enough alone and blue green was needed as well