Polyploidy question.

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TigerPheno

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What if u chop below last grown quad node. I'm guessing the aux branches will split as well in time, but chop that maybe? Wish had a few of these to try some experiments on and try different manifolding techniques
 
ahemait

ahemait

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I have a sensi star that is consistently splitting into 2-3 branches continually through veg, can't really tell in flower.
I purchased the seeds from a licensed commercial producer in Canada here.

It grows painfully slow and there has been ZERO STRETCH in the 2-3 weeks of flowering so far. It's incredibly dense and node spacing is stupidly tight. I'm questioning if I'll get any buds or just leaf clusters : /
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MamaBear

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Oh you'll get flowers galore - will just take some time getting there. All that extra growth will need extra food and water. She looks super healthy! Love these plants - trichomes are usually incredibly dense and stupidly tight also.
 
Stardusted

Stardusted

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I'm hoping so. This could be a major yield if it plays out!
Polypoid seeds that I have done, sprout with 4 primary leaves..the phenotypes have been all over the board for me. False arelia houseplant looking..vines with flower clumps..huge plants that cannot support themselves..curled virused looking stuff..some with no tricomes..with lots of tricomes..very dark green..some sprout promisingly then perish..out of a pound of seed only a dozen sprouted..three survived in a greenhouse with great care..I guess it a numbers game to get survivable keepers..an the high/or toxcisicty is like red haired stranger that lasted..quick sharp lift..an sustained for an hour or so..my cohorts we're afraid of it ..fools thought colchcine was still in it! By the time the plant grows up..the concentration from seed absorbsoin is so diffused, an way below any detectable levels..people with gout take a fair amount of it..and it seems to help them? Heheh....I would devote a greenhouse to this endeavor..as diploids ruin the polypoids..an crosses amongst polypoids are the only way to perpetuate the qualities one is after. I am told..The wild Snapdragon vs today's cultivated snapdragons is an example of, the fruits of this labor?
 
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MamaBear

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I would devote a greenhouse to this endeavor..as diploids ruin the polypoids.
You got that right! I would love to build myself a 2nd greenhouse just for these plants. They do need to be treated a bit differently, they eat more, drink more and I find many of them have some unusual traits you don't usually see in regular plants.

Many think a polyploid plant is, by nature "the best" but they are not. Just like anything else you can breed for, there are good ones and bad. Just like purple bud doesn't necessarily mean it's better than green - it's just purple. Chances are you'll get plants with crazy tric coverage but you can also get plants with NO trics or fucked-up trics. And yeah, I find many of them die off young (probably would have been fucked up anyway).
Gotta grow lots of polyploids and find the keepers just like with regulars.
Biggest difference I've found is when breeding. You really don't know what you gonna get! Regular plants play by the "mendel rules" but not these.
 
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motz

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be carefull. are you going to try smearing it on the cotyledon /meristem immediately after sprout?
I think i will make a stock solution of Surflan AS(oryzalin 40.4%) before i mess with the more toxic "C".
When i created my first polyploids(3 out of 40) they all died within 3 weeks of " birth". the stems were approx .75 wide and only about .o6 thick, curving left and right. crazy looking like a cactus, i was stoked, until they slowly ded. if u can get a poly to veg and keep it cloned, u will be soooo happy, i was.
We used colchisine back in the early 80's to make all female seed.
You couldn't consume it with the first year offspring but after that you were golden
 
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MamaBear

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I’ve been working with natural polypoid cannabis plants for several years now and here’s some info I’ve learned:

First and foremost is the inaccurate info floating around that 3-leaves means triploid. NOT SO!

3 leaves just means tri-foliate. It may or may not be due to being triploid. So seeing 3 leaves does NOT necessarily mean you have a triploid. Only a chromo count can verify that.

Diploids (regular) plants have 2 sets of chromosomes. Cross a male diploid and female diploid and you get more diploids (1 chromosome from each parent). Basic stuff. Chart looks like this:
GeneticsE

Note that Females can become hermaphrodites on some plants. This is a species-saving tactic that many plants have.


Triploids have 3 sets of chromosomes - usually Tetraploid(4) x Diploid(2) cross - 2 chromes from tetraploid parent and 1 from the diploid. Chart looks like this:
GeneticsD

Note that MALES can become hermaphrodites on some plants. I believe this flip is due to the extra X gene.


XYY (Meta Males) – triploid males with viable pollen. If you are an Aliens fan, you’ll remember the Double-Y-Chromo-Boys in Aliens3. These are good plants but can herm under severe stress. These can be used for breeding but should be tested/proved first.

XXY (Sterile/Hermy Males) – weird situation here as these should be STERILE! I find the pollen is viable but the pistils are usually not. These plants usually show as complete, true-hermaphrodite flowers. If you have male hermy plants, they are probably these. I cull ALL these.

XXX (Meta Female) – these are the girls you are wanting! The 3 X genes can give you some incredible plants. This is where you see extreme trichome coverage, super-dense vegetation, very dark green color (excessive chloroplasts), and drink like fish (high respiration). The main word here is EXCESS! They just have more of everything. I’ve never seen one of these herm. I don’t think they can.

FYI: OG Kush, Master Kush and Acapulco Gold were all polyploids.

The biggest puzzle piece I found was when I realized triploid cannabis plants don’t always give just 1 chromo (like most triploid plants do if they are not completely sterile). Sometimes they give 2. Apparently cannabis doesn’t have a problem with the odd-number of chromosomes. Actually, it looks like they almost always give 2. Or maybe only those seeds actually develop. It's pretty common to find lots of tiny white undeveloped seeds in pollinated polyploid buds. I’m not sure what this means for cannabis but it definitely shows that this species is very changeable.


Tetraploids have 4 sets (complete doubling) with 2 from each parent. This would come from crossing 2 tetraploids or chemical treatment. Note that chemical treatment to achieve a tetraploid is not always permanent – many plants revert. The chart on this one is all over the place so I won’t show it here. Many of the chromo combinations won’t even produce a viable seed. I have never gotten a tetraploid female "naturally" and I don't know anyone that has . Not sure it’s even possible without chemicals. The XXYY male is the only one you want to keep for breeding.
 
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MamaBear

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Left out some info . . .

On triploids, sexes are: 50% Meta Females, 25% Meta Males, 25% Herm/Males
so I get about 1/2 of all my triploid plants are Meta Females, same as usual. And since I cull all males (unless they are extraordinary) I don't bother with keeping track of which males are which.

I have also noticed that triploid males show later that regular males do. Most regular males will show sex before the females but triploid males are pretty much same timing as females. The Herm-males (XXY) are the latest flowering though.
 
Stardusted

Stardusted

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Has anyone used an old color TV CRT emitter area of the tube to mutate seed?...hejej...or napthalene soaked or....a friend with an unmetered x-ray machine..or send a bag to the ISS for an extended stay... what new cannabinoids?
 
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Stardusted

Stardusted

102
43
Has anyone used an old color TV CRT emitter area of the tube to mutate seed?...hejej...or napthalene soaked or....a friend with an unmetered x-ray machine..or send a bag to the ISS for an extended stay... what new cannabinoids?
The sad part of colchicine treatment for me was ..knowing the best genetics I could muster at the time..was almost all the seed I had...to loose so many seed..for so few survivors.. Would one work so hard, to improve his third rate plant line?
 
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