PURE GOLD. HOW IS IT MADE?

[Capulator]

Does anyone have in of on how the new Pure gold tablets are made. I figure graywolf or hashmasta can maybe chime in on this?

 

[El Cerebro]

a couple threads discussing this, search on "d-limonene". tetralabs details some of it on their website too, pretty interesting.

anyone using the d-lim as carrier in a tamisisum or other reclaimer yet?

 

[squiggly]

Limonene tends to be a bit too viscous to make it a good extraction solvent for this process. As a delivery solvent, it's ideal (because of the same viscosity, allows a more gradual uptake).

Literally the only thing you're seeing with the puregold is the RIDICULOUSLY FAR AND AWAY SUPERIOR purification methods that process chemists have available to them. My guess is that this stuff has all been isolated to .999% pure THC by chromatography, is then isomerised as completely as possible, and then separated by a process known as chiral column chromatography.

This separates the mixture into its substituent isomers. This purified compound can then be dissolved for delivery.

Most of what you're seeing in terms of different colors when it comes to extracts made crudely by us hobbyists is according to interactions with various impurities and adulterants (and different isomers).

To my knowledge, pure THC is red. Mixing with the limonene is likely giving the gold color.


This stuff literally is what it says it is, pharmaceutical grade THC extract. The chemical process industry is just much better at getting a pure product--mostly because it is willing to deal with yield loss that would make most farmers cringe in a quest for higher purity.

Purity is a must in the pharma/chemical industry, in ways that wouldn't even cross most people's minds.

The answer to this question really lies in the mind of a process chemist (chemical engineer). This is a person who will be absolutely obsessed with purity and yield, and a balance between the two (weighed heavily in favor of purity, but not without attention to yield). This is especially true to a far greater degree when we are discussing a pharmaceutical process chemist (who is nearly guaranteed to be running the plant producing this stuff).

It is for this reason that I speculate the compound has also been isomerised. These types of chemists are not keen on shipping a product as a mixture of isomers, unless there is a substantial loss to yield concerned. It just looks sloppy if there are concerns about lawsuits (and there are)--its not the industry standard. Because THC is easily isomerised this is not the case as with something like ibuprofen (which is often shipped as a racemic mixture of which only one of the enantiomers is biologically active).


The short answer, TLDR:

They have waaaaaaay better equipment, more skilled process developers, and more highly trained labor than your average BHO producer. They are literally doing the exact same thing, but better (what we're missing are many intermediate filtration/purification steps).

If you want to approach this purity at home, I have one word for you. Chromatography (column). This is the pharmaceutical standard almost across the board--except of course where it is un-needed, and great lengths are taken to see that it is in some cases because it is a cantankerous process which much be optimized for each individual target, and does involve some loss of yield. If you need some shit isolated though, and its soluble in something--there really isn't a better way to do it.


For those interested:
I have been toying with the idea of purification of THC by converting it to either a phosphate or acetate ester (whichever proves more easily hydrolyzed). Extracting into water (in which it is now soluble), purifying several times over from that point (by washing mostly)--and then proceeding to hydrolyze it back to THC. If you thoroughly water wash the material to be esterified you should be getting back some pretty pure esters.

As this point the only contaminants *should* be other ester products made from other metabolites (terpenes and the like). There will be plenty of these, but they would be EASILY purified in a column whereas this might be more difficult to do with a crude oil (more loss of yield ultimately, and more runs through the column, more fractions, more mess in general).

The only uncertainty I have on this is whether or not the ester can be easily hydrolyzed. I imagine sulfuric or phosphoric acid would do the trick, but I can't be certain. Would have to defer to graywolf from this point because I do not have access to the requisite chemicals. During this process the THC should be isomerized.

 

[squiggly]

I almost forgot.

Fair Warning:
Chromatography is incredibly finnicky to do by hand. It's certainly not impossible but this is one of the very few places where chemistry stops being purely learned technique and starts being art. There are machines which will do it for you that look like this one:

http://www.isco.com/products/products3.asp?PL=101101005

but they cost 6 jillion dollars and you need at least some low level expertise to use them--although you may be able to find a deal/steal on a used one. These are also lower resolution machines, they are known as flash chromatographs. They are more meant for analysis--but for this process I imagine they would adapt fairly well, you could simply combine the fractions containing thc when it was done.

 

[Capulator]

I wonder what strain is being used, or with all the purification does it even matter? will every strain come out the same when it has been filtered to the point of being 99.99999% THC only.

these guys are going to make a killing. supposedly no more concentrates allowed in long beach, but this one is an exception since it is considered a pill meant for ingestion..

 

[baba G]

I've tried their sublingual spray and the gold caps(25mg), and the gold caps have a mild effect but the spray was a joke, let the neighbor try some when I had it and he was working heavy machinery and didn't feel a thing...lol
But I haven't tried their oil, and at $40 for a half gram I prob never will...lol

 

[KennyPowers]

very interesting stuff. ill try anything once.

 

[MakinGoo]

We were gunna grab some of this but like BaBa said $40 for a 1/2 gram is a rip off we juss got a gram of budder for the same $40

 

[baba G]

We were gunna grab some of this but like BaBa said $40 for a 1/2 gram is a rip off we juss got a gram of budder for the same $40

Yeah, I have yet to hear about anyone trying it or giving feedback, it seems people want to buy a strain name when they get concentrates and they want to taste that strain but with this pure Gold I don't know if your gonna enjoy the terpenes/flavors we have come to love!

 

[Capulator]

Yeah, I have yet to hear about anyone trying it or giving feedback, it seems people want to buy a strain name when they get concentrates and they want to taste that strain but with this pure Gold I don't know if your gonna enjoy the terpenes/flavors we have come to love!

yeah but they sure are good at marketing.

 

[baba G]

Every club I've been too doesn't move any of the pure gold, it sits. But I see the regular concentrates fly off the shelves...could be the price, I dunno. But just seems if it was that strong it would be the best...
I think they tested in the mid 80% for thc concentration. They might be 99.99% pure but not 99.9% thc, looks like they are 87% delta 9.
Most awesome concentrates made by amateurs easily hit 80 to mid 80's thc%. So, the pure gold may be the purest product but hardly the most potent...

 

[MakinGoo]

I've tryed the pure gold b4 they put it in2 the fancy pill lookin squeeze thinger.. It used 2 b in a Lil vial & it was ok but nuthing 2 powerful juss like any other oil..

 

[squiggly]

I wonder what strain is being used, or with all the purification does it even matter? will every strain come out the same when it has been filtered to the point of being 99.99999% THC only.

these guys are going to make a killing. supposedly no more concentrates allowed in long beach, but this one is an exception since it is considered a pill meant for ingestion..

Every strain should work out the same if no terpenes are included in the final product. If it is .999 pure THC there will be no humanly detectable difference.

The only way you'd be able to tell is if you radiomarked this strain or that before processing--then you would be able to look for isotopes included in THC's structure. So literally you'd have to dope/spike the sample in order to distinguish it from another one.

 

[squiggly]

Every club I've been too doesn't move any of the pure gold, it sits. But I see the regular concentrates fly off the shelves...could be the price, I dunno. But just seems if it was that strong it would be the best...
I think they tested in the mid 80% for thc concentration. They might be 99.99% pure but not 99.9% thc, looks like they are 87% delta 9.
Most awesome concentrates made by amateurs easily hit 80 to mid 80's thc%. So, the pure gold may be the purest product but hardly the most potent...

If you buy Pure Gold, you won't be paying for the concentration--you are paying for the purity. Such is the case with pharmaceuticals--else we'd all still be chewing willow bark for our headaches, and taking milk of poppy for aches and pains.

Some people really do not like the idea of using a substance which has over 100 compounds present in it, most of which have not been thoroughly studied for singular effects--and which definitely have not been studied in the context of possible interactions with the other present substances.

For a society which is familiar with the idea that this could pose some issues--for some this is too much to ask, but perhaps they still have cancer, IBS, arthritis, or any of the other ailments THC can help with. This is a niche product meant for those people (and I'm sure a good portion of their sales come from "novelty/curiosity purchases" as well).

It is a near guarantee that the compound which is introduced into the capsule is originally .999 THC. When it is *mixed* with the delivery solvent (as well as any other additives) the concentration will obviously drop. This isn't THC in a pill. It's THC dissolved in something in a pill (probably with some preservatives).

Testing this for THC% seems kinda counter intuitive to me.

This sort of rings like testing a vicodin for hydrocodone levels (it says how much is in there right on the bottle). Will you find there is some variation? Yes. Will it be incredibly slight? Also yes. This is something else that this pill provides which every other MJ product likely pales in comparison with. A standardized dose, with very little variation.

This is again something which is an absolute must in the pharma industry, and another barrier to entry for some people in terms of using a drug. It is not possible to approach this level of accuracy in terms of dosage with just about any other medium for two reasons:

1.) There is usually far more than THC in other products
2.) Other products are not mixed heterogeneously (they are mixed un-evenly, in contrast with this product).

My guess is that the only active ingredient in these is THC (as well as any activity which the limonene might have in conjunction with it).

I can pretty much assure everyone, even without having used it--that this is a REALLY top-notch product. It's just isn't one that fits most people's wants/needs.

 

[Blaze]

Pure THC concentrates kinda suck IMO... It's all about the terpenes... Without them, the flavor, aroma, and high aren't going to be very pleasant. Same reason Marinol sucks...

 

[squiggly]

Agree, but some people just want medicine.

 

[El Cerebro]

Pure THC concentrates kinda suck IMO... It's all about the terpenes... Without them, the flavor, aroma, and high aren't going to be very pleasant. Same reason Marinol sucks...

all phytocannabanoids are terpenes, including thc.

Blaze, you inhaling marinol looking for bouquet or something?

 

[Graywolf]

Does anyone have in of on how the new Pure gold tablets are made. I figure graywolf or hashmasta can maybe chime in on this?

In a word, no I don't, but looking at their cannabinoid balances, it looks like they just cleaned it up and added limonene. Looking at their published numbers, nothing difficult to do, even without chromatography.

I suspect that a winterized non-polar extraction filtered through charcoal to reduce the coloring agents, and at sub micron, to eliminate solids and bacteria, would mimic their numbers, but I'm not sure what they took out to eliminate dry mouth, or what the leaf terpenes that they are adding in their second version, which has a red hue.

I'm very interested in the latter. Does anyone know what terpenes they are extracting from the leaves, and which add a red hue?

 

[baba G]

If you buy Pure Gold, you won't be paying for the concentration--you are paying for the purity. Such is the case with pharmaceuticals--else we'd all still be chewing willow bark for our headaches, and taking milk of poppy for aches and pains.

Some people really do not like the idea of using a substance which has over 100 compounds present in it, most of which have not been thoroughly studied for singular effects--and which definitely have not been studied in the context of possible interactions with the other present substances.

For a society which is familiar with the idea that this could pose some issues--for some this is too much to ask, but perhaps they still have cancer, IBS, arthritis, or any of the other ailments THC can help with. This is a niche product meant for those people (and I'm sure a good portion of their sales come from "novelty/curiosity purchases" as well).

It is a near guarantee that the compound which is introduced into the capsule is originally .999 THC. When it is *mixed* with the delivery solvent (as well as any other additives) the concentration will obviously drop. This isn't THC in a pill. It's THC dissolved in something in a pill (probably with some preservatives).

Testing this for THC% seems kinda counter intuitive to me.

This sort of rings like testing a vicodin for hydrocodone levels (it says how much is in there right on the bottle). Will you find there is some variation? Yes. Will it be incredibly slight? Also yes. This is something else that this pill provides which every other MJ product likely pales in comparison with. A standardized dose, with very little variation.

This is again something which is an absolute must in the pharma industry, and another barrier to entry for some people in terms of using a drug. It is not possible to approach this level of accuracy in terms of dosage with just about any other medium for two reasons:

1.) There is usually far more than THC in other products
2.) Other products are not mixed heterogeneously (they are mixed un-evenly, in contrast with this product).

My guess is that the only active ingredient in these is THC (as well as any activity which the limonene might have in conjunction with it).

I can pretty much assure everyone, even without having used it--that this is a REALLY top-notch product. It's just isn't one that fits most people's wants/needs.

It may be pure but honestly it pales in comparison to any concentrate or edible/meds I've tried. I believe cannabis doesn't give the desired effect when thc is isolated, it works in harmony with these other compounds to produce the results we have come to know and love.
Overpriced, and when the product in it's original unadulterated form can't kill I see no need to pharma-size it, for me personally.
Someone may benefit from this but again I don't see it selling in norcal and haven't heard of anyone giving it high marks.

 

[Graywolf]

Limonene tends to be a bit too viscous to make it a good extraction solvent for this process. As a delivery solvent, it's ideal (because of the same viscosity, allows a more gradual uptake).

Literally the only thing you're seeing with the puregold is the RIDICULOUSLY FAR AND AWAY SUPERIOR purification methods that process chemists have available to them. My guess is that this stuff has all been isolated to .999% pure THC by chromatography, is then isomerised as completely as possible, and then separated by a process known as chiral column chromatography.

This separates the mixture into its substituent isomers. This purified compound can then be dissolved for delivery.

Most of what you're seeing in terms of different colors when it comes to extracts made crudely by us hobbyists is according to interactions with various impurities and adulterants (and different isomers).

To my knowledge, pure THC is red. Mixing with the limonene is likely giving the gold color.


This stuff literally is what it says it is, pharmaceutical grade THC extract. The chemical process industry is just much better at getting a pure product--mostly because it is willing to deal with yield loss that would make most farmers cringe in a quest for higher purity.

Purity is a must in the pharma/chemical industry, in ways that wouldn't even cross most people's minds.

The answer to this question really lies in the mind of a process chemist (chemical engineer). This is a person who will be absolutely obsessed with purity and yield, and a balance between the two (weighed heavily in favor of purity, but not without attention to yield). This is especially true to a far greater degree when we are discussing a pharmaceutical process chemist (who is nearly guaranteed to be running the plant producing this stuff).

It is for this reason that I speculate the compound has also been isomerised. These types of chemists are not keen on shipping a product as a mixture of isomers, unless there is a substantial loss to yield concerned. It just looks sloppy if there are concerns about lawsuits (and there are)--its not the industry standard. Because THC is easily isomerised this is not the case as with something like ibuprofen (which is often shipped as a racemic mixture of which only one of the enantiomers is biologically active).


The short answer, TLDR:

They have waaaaaaay better equipment, more skilled process developers, and more highly trained labor than your average BHO producer. They are literally doing the exact same thing, but better (what we're missing are many intermediate filtration/purification steps).

If you want to approach this purity at home, I have one word for you. Chromatography (column). This is the pharmaceutical standard almost across the board--except of course where it is un-needed, and great lengths are taken to see that it is in some cases because it is a cantankerous process which much be optimized for each individual target, and does involve some loss of yield. If you need some shit isolated though, and its soluble in something--there really isn't a better way to do it.


For those interested:
I have been toying with the idea of purification of THC by converting it to either a phosphate or acetate ester (whichever proves more easily hydrolyzed). Extracting into water (in which it is now soluble), purifying several times over from that point (by washing mostly)--and then proceeding to hydrolyze it back to THC. If you thoroughly water wash the material to be esterified you should be getting back some pretty pure esters.

As this point the only contaminants *should* be other ester products made from other metabolites (terpenes and the like). There will be plenty of these, but they would be EASILY purified in a column whereas this might be more difficult to do with a crude oil (more loss of yield ultimately, and more runs through the column, more fractions, more mess in general).

The only uncertainty I have on this is whether or not the ester can be easily hydrolyzed. I imagine sulfuric or phosphoric acid would do the trick, but I can't be certain. Would have to defer to graywolf from this point because I do not have access to the requisite chemicals. During this process the THC should be isomerized.

The phosphate can easily be hydrolized using NaOH, or KOH.

We haven't played with the process without a fume hood, because of the chlorine given off, but it is on the agenda for the new lab.

We have a small fractionator and column, but our detector uses UV absorbtion to switch streams to the next fraction container. More on the subject later, as the lamp for our detector is obsolete and we are struggling with finding a replacement.

Here is a picture, with the fractionator in the background behind the distillation equipment. It is the unit on the left and an electrophoresis unit for DNA sequencing on the right.