Quantum Boards And Co2: Cheap Cooling That Conserves Co2

[TrichGnome]

Howdy farmers! I’m delving into the world of CO2 supplementation and sealed rooms for the first time. The perennial conundrum is: how to keep room cool efficiently/cheaply while conserving as much precious gas as possible. Right now my set up involves a portable a/c vented to an external air cooled hood (acts as a separate exhaust “room”) into which I placed a carbon filter and in-line fan. Pretty janky but it works.

Thing is, right now I’m running two aircooled HPS hoods (1000w each run at 75%) and a 620w HLG quantum board at about 75% power in the middle. I’m trying to switch over to all quantum boards, but I worry that a sealed room with 1200w of LED will get extremely hot and require constant a/c to cool, defeating the whole point of the more-efficient LEDs!

SO, I was brainstorming solutions and thought, what if I affixed greenhouse plastic sheeting to the walls of my tent and stretched it across (on a plane parallel w/ ceiling and floor), right below the level of the quantum boards, to essentially create two distinct zones, plant zone (bottom) and light zone (top). I would tape the shit out of the poly film so no air could exchange and completely seal the lower half of the tent, where I would send my CO2. Then, I’d just use an exhaust fan on the top port of the tent to extract the hot air rising from the lights. Has anyone tried something like this? Any idea what percentage of lumens/PPF I may lose from putting thin clear plastic between the lights and my plants? Any input would be most appreciated!

 

[Mr.jiujitsu]

Howdy farmers! I’m delving into the world of CO2 supplementation and sealed rooms for the first time. The perennial conundrum is: how to keep room cool efficiently/cheaply while conserving as much precious gas as possible. Right now my set up involves a portable a/c vented to an external air cooled hood (acts as a separate exhaust “room”) into which I placed a carbon filter and in-line fan. Pretty janky but it works.

Thing is, right now I’m running two aircooled HPS hoods (1000w each run at 75%) and a 620w HLG quantum board at about 75% power in the middle. I’m trying to switch over to all quantum boards, but I worry that a sealed room with 1200w of LED will get extremely hot and require constant a/c to cool, defeating the whole point of the more-efficient LEDs!

SO, I was brainstorming solutions and thought, what if I affixed greenhouse plastic sheeting to the walls of my tent and stretched it across (on a plane parallel w/ ceiling and floor), right below the level of the quantum boards, to essentially create two distinct zones, plant zone (bottom) and light zone (top). I would tape the shit out of the poly film so no air could exchange and completely seal the lower half of the tent, where I would send my CO2. Then, I’d just use an exhaust fan on the top port of the tent to extract the hot air rising from the lights. Has anyone tried something like this? Any idea what percentage of lumens/PPF I may lose from putting thin clear plastic between the lights and my plants? Any input would be most appreciated!

Never tried this but run all quantum boards. What if you sealed off around the boards and had two different levels with out breaking the light? I think adding anything in front of the lights will decrease their effectiveness.

 

[TrichGnome]

Never tried this but run all quantum boards. What if you sealed off around the boards and had two different levels with out breaking the light? I think adding anything in front of the lights will decrease their effectiveness.

Yea, that’s where my mind went too, as soon as I posted this! It would be hard to attach the poly directly to heat sink though, wouldn’t it? Those do get pretty hot. I have the HLG 600-h kit offered by Grower’s Lights. When I run it at about 75% it does stay a lot cooler. I was thinking I could get some clear plastic tubing, cut small slits in it, and kind of nestle it over the edges of the heat sink, maybe with a spot of silicone sealant on each end. Then attach the greenhouse poly to the tubing. That should seal up the area above the lights without diminishing their intensity. Even if it’s not a 100% perfect seal, it should save the vast majority of the CO2, I would think.
The tent I described with the HID’s and the QB is a 5x10. I just ordered another 600h and two of the 260 xw’s... so I think I’ll test this idea out in my 4x8 tent which will be LED only. I can post my results here if anyone is interested. Thanks for the reply!

 

[TrichGnome]

Oh btw, the greenhouse film I’m looking at claims to allow 91% light transmission. If that’s the case, it might not be worth the extra hassle and silicone gel on my precious quantum boards. I could just run them at 90% instead of 75% and have the same light intensity. Small loss in efficiency, totally compensated for by turning off the air conditioner. I’d imagine a 6-inch exhaust fan attached to a temp controller in the top chamber of the tent would easily displace the heat without even running 100% of the time.
Anyway, maybe somebody who has used these greenhouse poly films can give me a better idea of the degree of light loss. Thanks again

 

[Mr.jiujitsu]

Oh btw, the greenhouse film I’m looking at claims to allow 91% light transmission. If that’s the case, it might not be worth the extra hassle and silicone gel on my precious quantum boards. I could just run them at 90% instead of 75% and have the same light intensity. Small loss in efficiency, totally compensated for by turning off the air conditioner. I’d imagine a 6-inch exhaust fan attached to a temp controller in the top chamber of the tent would easily displace the heat without even running 100% of the time.
Anyway, maybe somebody who has used these greenhouse poly films can give me a better idea of the degree of light loss. Thanks again

So I have used them for years making make shift green houses in the woods. They work well under natural sun.... anyways I was also going to suggest, maybe broaden your fishbone. If you don’t need to penetrate the light, then you can use other materials to make you air seal? I was thinking like that Mylar insulation they use for shipping. It’s light weight, would reflect back light, And provide an air tight seal....

 

[Mr.jiujitsu]

Now that I’m looking at my tent I’m
Thinking I could
Make somthing like that off the topogrow Mylar Wall I have from another tent. Main exaust above light, hole in Mylar for 4in duct to go down like 4” below lights. Remove all the main heat from the sinks, and then the extra vac would clear the plant space. Could use a flap and control draw and intake all your fresh into the plant space. I like the way you think dude

 

[TrichGnome]

Damn yea Mylar is a good idea ! We’re on the same page haha I was just thinking about a small port in the “ceiling” of the plant area where you could attach a small inline fan for nighttime and occasional daytime air exchange... I have some extra Mylar emergency blankets laying around. Those are designed as thermal insulators so I bet you could attach them to the top of the heat sinks no problem. Then they would reflect all light back down on the plants and also provide a better thermal barrier between the two sections of the tent. I think we’re on to something here!

 

[Mr.jiujitsu]

Damn yea Mylar is a good idea ! We’re on the same page haha I was just thinking about a small port in the “ceiling” of the plant area where you could attach a small inline fan for nighttime and occasional daytime air exchange... I have some extra Mylar emergency blankets laying around. Those are designed as thermal insulators so I bet you could attach them to the top of the heat sinks no problem. Then they would reflect all light back down on the plants and also provide a better thermal barrier between the two sections of the tent. I think we’re on to something here!

Love it!

 

[DGP]

Why would LED panels offer up more heat to your environment than HPS? You won't be heating up the leaves and other objects in the room because there is almost no IR in LED light. Also you can create a 1000 watts of effective light with about a 750 watt heat load. Also, put your Quantum drivers outside the tent or room. I guess one could enclose the heat sinks on the panels in some kind of box and vent the box out of the room and have an isolated air inlet for the box but I don't think it is worth doing all that.

Remember a watt is a watt except when your making IR light (unusable energy that just heats stuff up). Your heat load will be lower with LED and the distribution of light and diversity of angle over the canopy will reduce larf and increase penetration. With all the IR produced by HPS the surface temp of your leaves could be 8F higher than the air meaning at 80 degrees air temp your plant could be at 88. With LED your leaf surface may only be a couple degrees higher (and the light can be closer and therefore brighter) meaning you can run your room hotter and less expensively while still getting optimum growth temperatures.

I am running Quantums and COBs and I'll never, never go back to HPS, the difference in my yield and quality is clearly better. In my opinion single ended HPS is dead technology (by comparison to what we have available today) and I would only consider CMH or LED now. The CRI of HPS is 39 out of 100 and the CRI of Quantums and COBs is between 80 and 97 out of 100. The right color spectrum, runs close to the canopy, runs more efficiently....whats not to love about where LED technology is today (if your not talking about the fake blurple lights from China that claim 1200 watts for 200 watts from the wall (BS slingers on Ebay).

P.S. I have run my 750 watt COB as close as 3" to a flowering plant with NO burn. Yeah at 2" or less they start to get damaged but try doing that with HPS....I don't think so.

Dee

 

[scubascrog]

I run 800W of qb and 350W of blurple and I get to like 77 with no co2, my humidity drops tho without plants. 6x9x8

 

[TrichGnome]

Why would LED panels offer up more heat to your environment than HPS? You won't be heating up the leaves and other objects in the room because there is almost no IR in LED light. Also you can create a 1000 watts of effective light with about a 750 watt heat load. Also, put your Quantum drivers outside the tent or room. I guess one could enclose the heat sinks on the panels in some kind of box and vent the box out of the room and have an isolated air inlet for the box but I don't think it is worth doing all that.

Remember a watt is a watt except when your making IR light (unusable energy that just heats stuff up). Your heat load will be lower with LED and the distribution of light and diversity of angle over the canopy will reduce larf and increase penetration. With all the IR produced by HPS the surface temp of your leaves could be 8F higher than the air meaning at 80 degrees air temp your plant could be at 88. With LED your leaf surface may only be a couple degrees higher (and the light can be closer and therefore brighter) meaning you can run your room hotter and less expensively while still getting optimum growth temperatures.

I am running Quantums and COBs and I'll never, never go back to HPS, the difference in my yield and quality is clearly better. In my opinion single ended HPS is dead technology (by comparison to what we have available today) and I would only consider CMH or LED now. The CRI of HPS is 39 out of 100 and the CRI of Quantums and COBs is between 80 and 97 out of 100. The right color spectrum, runs close to the canopy, runs more efficiently....whats not to love about where LED technology is today (if your not talking about the fake blurple lights from China that claim 1200 watts for 200 watts from the wall (BS slingers on Ebay).

P.S. I have run my 750 watt COB as close as 3" to a flowering plant with NO burn. Yeah at 2" or less they start to get damaged but try doing that with HPS....I don't think so.

Dee

Believe me, you’re preaching to the choir here bud. I’m in love with my quantum boards, and just spent over 1400 bucks ordering three more. The key difference here is that the HPS hoods I have are aircooled and sealed, so I ventilate them totally separately from my grow room air. I pull cool air in from the basement, through both hoods, and directly out a window to the backyard. So this moves hot air away from my tent almost instantly without affecting my CO2 concentrations at all. I used so much mor-tite on those hoods, ain’t a single molecule of air getting through from the grow room.

I understand that a watt is a watt apart from the spectral/infrared considerations you mention, which is exactly why I am considering these questions — I know from experience that 1,200 watts of any type of lighting in a sealed 5x10 tent/room with 0 ventilation will get really hot, really fast. Normally a standard 6” exhaust fan would easily take care of the job with headroom, but I’m using CO2 so that option is off the table, hence my workaround.

I’m always interested to hear about other quantum board users’ setups though. Do you supplement with CO2? And if so, how do you go about ditching ventilation while still managing heat and keeping power bills as low as possible? Thanks for the reply!

 

[TrichGnome]

I run 800W of qb and 350W of blurple and I get to like 77 with no co2, my humidity drops tho without plants. 6x9x8

Interesting... that’s only a slightly larger cubic volume than my 5x10x6’8” tent... and similar wattage to what I’ll be running. I guess I won’t really know how hot it will get in there until I try it. Is the 77 degrees the temp it gets to when the room is sealed and no exhaust fans are running? I find that hard to believe but if it really does stay that cool with ventilation then that saves me a bunch of work!

 

[DGP]

I have AC in my flower room so I just pay for the KWs in the interest of maintaining the environment. However, my AC bills went down when I switched to all LED. I don't currently use C02 but would like to add it someday. My yields a getting bigger every time and I am happy with the trend. Maybe when I hit a flat spot and can't seem to improve things, then maybe I'll step up to CO2. Right now my room is sealed but not super tight. If I add CO2 I will definitely tighten up the room first.

BTW, my old HPS 1K lamp (5X7 room with 4X5 flower area) was also sealed with isolated input and exhaust and my AC bill still dropped.

Dee

 

[scubascrog]

Yes its really that cool. I do run my lights at night though, that is with my duct off

 

[TrichGnome]

Awesome thanks guys! I was hoping that was the case. Even with a ~440 cfm 6-in exhaust fan whipping at full speed through the two HPS hoods, each at 75%, the glass on the reflectors feels at least as hot as he quantum board. I’ll closely monitor temps when I finally ditch the HPS for good; maybe QB-only is the solution in and of itself. If I could rig up a Mylar “sub-ceiling” attached to the QB heat sinks and to the walls of my tent, with its own intake and exhaust, that might eliminate the need to run air conditioning at all, which would still be worth it. Thanks again for mulling this stuff over with me

 

[DGP]

If your in the northern hemisphere as we go into June I would expect you to need AC but I guess it depends on your climate as well as the environment your tent is in. I live in a fairly cool climate but still need AC.

Dee

 

[TrichGnome]

I have AC in my flower room so I just pay for the KWs in the interest of maintaining the environment. However, my AC bills went down when I switched to all LED. I don't currently use C02 but would like to add it someday. My yields a getting bigger every time and I am happy with the trend. Maybe when I hit a flat spot and can't seem to improve things, then maybe I'll step up to CO2. Right now my room is sealed but not super tight. If I add CO2 I will definitely tighten up the room first.

BTW, my old HPS 1K lamp (5X7 room with 4X5 flower area) was also sealed with isolated input and exhaust and my AC bill still dropped.

Dee

Aw you gotta add gas man! I can sit there and almost literally watch my plants grow now. It’s insane.

I’m still very new to the CO2 and sealed room approach, but I was surprised at how easy it was to get going with it. Dialing in the environment without wasting CO2 is trickier, but it sounds like you’re just about there already. I was relying heavily on exhaust for odor and temp control so I had to change my approach.

I picked up a tank from airgas that ran like 230 bucks, but now I own a tank with them and just swap it out for a full one every 2-3 weeks (hoping longer now with improved setup) which runs about 30 bucks. Then you just need a regulator/emitter to attach to the tank; these go for about $35 in Amazon, maybe cheaper on eBay or Craigslist.

At first I just used a timer and a CO2 calculator to set and control the regulator, which mostly worked, but I found it too stressful as I was watching it all the time and one timer mistake could mean dangerously high levels of CO2 (happened once) or none at all (several times). I ended up buying a CO2 controller on eBay for 160 bucks, open box. It’s the most popular model on amazon; goes for 199 new. Allows me to just set my desired PPM and know that it will stay there until lights off. Photocell senses absence of light and shuts off the regulator when lights go out. Maybe I’m telling you stuff you already know, but I was intimidated by CO2 so figured I’d share my experience with it. Good luck!

 

[TrichGnome]

If your in the northern hemisphere as we go into June I would expect you to need AC but I guess it depends on your climate as well as the environment your tent is in. I live in a fairly cool climate but still need AC.

Dee

I grow in a basement in northern New England (I can be at the Canadian border in ~45 mins) so it generally stays pretty cool. I struggle more with humidity this time of year. Usually starts to dry out by July so I’m looking forward to that. I usually just shut down my indoor thing by June and focus on a couple outdoor plants at home and maybe a guerrilla garden, but I’m hoping I can keep this setup running all year with the cooler quantums and the CO2, which allows for higher temps

 

[Mr.jiujitsu]

I grow in a basement in northern New England (I can be at the Canadian border in ~45 mins) so it generally stays pretty cool. I struggle more with humidity this time of year. Usually starts to dry out by July so I’m looking forward to that. I usually just shut down my indoor thing by June and focus on a couple outdoor plants at home and maybe a guerrilla garden, but I’m hoping I can keep this setup running all year with the cooler quantums and the CO2, which allows for higher temps

Practically neighbors

 

[DGP]

I grow in a basement in northern New England (I can be at the Canadian border in ~45 mins) so it generally stays pretty cool. I struggle more with humidity this time of year. Usually starts to dry out by July so I’m looking forward to that. I usually just shut down my indoor thing by June and focus on a couple outdoor plants at home and maybe a guerrilla garden, but I’m hoping I can keep this setup running all year with the cooler quantums and the CO2, which allows for higher temps

Quest dehumidifiers rock but it depends on how big an area your trying to dry out.

Dee