Questions About My Annual Outdoor Grow (not So Good At Soil Grows)

[DGP]

Hey farmers,

I only do one soil grow and it is my outdoor attempt each year. I always get the girls to finish but I would like to do better. I am a hydro grower (undercurrent) and always look at soil as more complicated and harder to manage (at least for this grower).

I can have 10 mature (in flower) plants and I was going for 4 outside and 6 inside. Reason being is myself and my veteran (PTSD) family member are depended on the medicine and I can't afford the risk of putting the whole 10 plants outside due to the potential for crop loss or theft.

I want to get the most out of my 4 outside plants though because the Summer is my one chance to grow a surplus to help prevent running out between cycles. I am only 3 years into the growing process and still refining my grower skill.

Ok so I have 8 plant in veg under the following conditions:

7 gallon fabric grow bags
soil: Happy Frog
Nutes: Jacks Hydro Pro 3-2-1 (this is just what I have and commercial growers use it on soil crops as well as hydro but quite willing to change to another brand/type)
Strain: Cheese Quake X Cheese Quake (F2) from seed (sorted by the most vigorous plants out of the 12 started).
Plants are currently growing very nicely and are about 12-14" high.

We have a relatively short season here in the Pacific NW but never had a problem finishing even if I have to haul em in the garage to finish under HPS or LED.

So, I am looking for expert guidance (pot size, nutes, whatever) to get the most out of this years attempt, I am open to suggestions and will be happy to take advice. I have been doing this long enough to know I don't know everything. Have farmed food crops, raised a lot of different greenhouse crops so I have a lot of general horticulture knowledge but I find growing cannabis to be a different animal:)

Thanks in Advance,

Dee

 

[Snoleperd]

Well I grow autos now but grew outdoors for about 30 years so I May be able to help, when i do an outdoors grow I make my own mix, but happy frog is fine, the size of your pots depends on the size of your plants, allways have good drainage expeciley outdoors, for base i use botanacare pro food base, but I dont feed my autos food just base, im trying to remember what food we add to the base and im comeing up with i will have to call my cuz and ask we switch around, we use 5gal nursery pots, when it's time for flower agent we use botanacare pro flower base & Atami Bloombastic this works great, last summer I grew my outdoor plants in a basement in front of a window door beacuse of the deer, so I lollipoped them, you want to place your plants in such a way so they get good morning sun, partial shade during the hotest part of the day, and good late day sun, the botanacare & bloombastic will realy bulk up your flower, as for food last year i think it was called voodoo juice? Well if you decide to go with botanacare pro ask your hydroponic guy for a good food match, we experiment with food thru the years, I'm allmost positive it was voodoo juice, since you allways bring in your girls I think you just need the right nutrients to really bulk up your flower, everyone has there favorite, but in my opinion botanacare pro flower base & Atami Bloombastic is the way to go it realy bulks up your flower, thus yield, you say you live in the Pacific northwest? It rains allot there make shure you pick a hardy strain resistant to mold, I hope this helps anymore questions and I will be glad to help. Your Friend. SNOLEPERD

 

[DGP]

I want to get the best out of 4 plants so I was thinking 30 gallon fabric pots with a soil mix I make from sandy loam with amendments like worm castings etc. I could just do the happy Frog or Ocean Forest or even Nectar soil but that's a lot of bags of soil and the cost is fairly high. However, if it is worth it I I don't mind since I have never made soil mixes myself (there are a lot of basic recipes out the though). The reason for the 30 gal pots is I still want to be able to move them if the weather goes sideways or there is a security issue but IDK how heavy they will be (maybe 80-100lbs). I have a garden cart that can move em as long as I can lift them a short distance up onto the cart.

The one thing I am really not sure about is nutes but I am kind of anti cannabis nutes because I think there is so much hype with liquid nutes (you know mega this, candy that, blows your shit up this and that). In the end it is just basic chemistry and I reject the marketing hype.

I have grown outside for 2 years but only in 10 gallon pots, FFOF and GH liquid nutes. I just want to take it to the next level so I can get ahead and stock my meds up. I hate it when I run out before the next harvest and my indoor grow is not very large so any hiccup in yield really kills me. if I get a significant outdoor yield I have some safety margin:) My plants are in veg indoor and are already 18" high and quite vigorous, hoping to get them a big head start before My 15 or so.

Thanks,

Dee

 

[Snoleperd]

Ok, are you telling me you want 4 plants in 1 30gal bag? You are wasting your mix, first off unless you are attempting to grow an industrial plant, you realy dont need much more than a 5gal pot, grow your plants seperated in 5gal pots, if you want my recipe for mix I'll tell you, 20gal of happy frog is not to much $ anyway you have to use nutrients if you want any kind of yield, botanacare is organic so is bloombastic i think, you dont have to use what i do, but if you want medicine for you and yours you will have to use something!

 

[DGP]

Ok, are you telling me you want 4 plants in 1 30gal bag? You are wasting your mix, first off unless you are attempting to grow an industrial plant, you realy dont need much more than a 5gal pot, grow your plants seperated in 5gal pots, if you want my recipe for mix I'll tell you, 20gal of happy frog is not to much $ anyway you have to use nutrients if you want any kind of yield, botanacare is organic so is bloombastic i think, you dont have to use what i do, but if you want medicine for you and yours you will have to use something!

I was just thinking the pot size was limiting the yield last year. Np, was thinking of 4 big pots. I don't want them competing (they make growth inhibitors to compete with plants nearby from what I understand) I have no objection to using smaller pots (much easier to handle of course) but I just thought they would do better with more room. In my hydro grow I can see a huge correlation (and causation) when it comes to root bundle size vs. yield.

Dee

 

[Snoleperd]

You are right, i mostly grow autoflower plants, i rarely use more than a 3gal pot, for an average outdoors plant i would go with a 5gal max unless i was growing an expesiley large plant, you need to use nutrients to get yield, you dont have to use what i do but you still have to feed your plant, and you have to use some sort of blooming agent if you want yield. All pics are in a 3gal pot.

 

[DGP]

I am currently using Jack's professional, Calcium Nitrate and epsom (3-2-1 grams per gal). It can be used for hydro, soil or coco. I like what I am seeing with Mega Crop powdered nutes as well (I think that is the brand). My objection to most canna specialized nutes is wading thru all the BS marketing and they are expensive. I don't mind extra cost if there is a clear benefit but I have been in agriculture for years (only 3 years in canna culture though) and chemistry of plant nutrients is just chemistry. The canna nute market (IMHO) is really jacked up with hype. However, I am always open to good data that says a given nute formula is clearly better.

 

[madgrower]

I was just thinking the pot size was limiting the yield last year. Np, was thinking of 4 big pots. I don't want them competing (they make growth inhibitors to compete with plants nearby from what I understand) I have no objection to using smaller pots (much easier to handle of course) but I just thought they would do better with more room. In my hydro grow I can see a huge correlation (and causation) when it comes to root bundle size vs. yield.

Dee

I cut these barrels in half. I get them for $15 .cut 2 handles and drill a few holes on bottom .my plants are 24" tall when they go out ..get over a pound a plant and reuse the soil

 

[centralcoast]

You may want to look up super soil. Pre mix and all you need to do is add water throughout flower.

 

[DGP]

You may want to look up super soil. Pre mix and all you need to do is add water throughout flower.

Yep, I was looking at several websites and various posts about supersoil. Looks like a good route was just pondering how easy or difficult it would be to source the materials and make sure I do it correctly.

Thanks,

Dee

 

[centralcoast]

Dont make soil growing more difficult than it needs to be. Most usually either over water or over/under feed. Back in the day, I’d usually feed with every third watering (during flower and veg).

Water, water, feed... rinse and repeat until the final two weeks where you can flush with plain water.

 

[DGP]

Dont make soil growing more difficult than it needs to be. Most usually either over water or over/under feed. Back in the day, I’d usually feed with every third watering (during flower and veg).

Water, water, feed... rinse and repeat until the final two weeks where you can flush with plain water.

I am definitely a fan of simple. Last year I grew some plants in 7 gallon pots, FFOF soil and GH nutes with some calmag. Did some pruning to optimize canopy shape etc. However, in spite of a clean finish (no major mold or pest issues) the yield was ok but nothing to write home about. This year I just want to step it up and since soil growing is not my forte I though I would ask the farmers what to do better.

This year the positive steps I took are:
1. F2 seeds to allow for many phenos to sort from. Sorted for the ones that germinated soonest, had vigorous growth and rapid root development.
2. Started earlier, plants are vegging inside right now and are 18" high now. In this state the date to put them out is sometime between May 1 and May 15 (Pacific NW).
3. Taking more care to insure the plants are as healthy as possible (discipline on initial ph, nute levels, watching for any early signs of a deficiency, logging daily observations/activities....)

Thanks,

Dee

 

[Snoleperd]

Yes nutrients are expensive $50 for a bottle of base each, Atami Bloombastic is like $79 for a large bottle, I heard of super soil but never tried, my cuz makes his soil let's see, peat, veraculite, fish mulch pearlite, and some sort of mycrobs, I'm not shure, me i just buy it fox farms works great, well good luck, if you run into problems I'll be around.

 

[Snoleperd]

Sorry, you seem to know what your doing, any advice I gave on nutrients is what I use, but I try to keep it simple, and yes expensive, you realy do not need huge pots and you do need your plants seperated if a 5gal seems to small do a 6gal but remember you will probably end up moveing them around some, if you run into problems I'll be around.

 

[DGP]

Sorry, you seem to know what your doing, any advice I gave on nutrients is what I use, but I try to keep it simple, and yes expensive, you realy do not need huge pots and you do need your plants seperated if a 5gal seems to small do a 6gal but remember you will probably end up moveing them around some, if you run into problems I'll be around.

Well, just trying to learn, feel like I am somewhere in the novice to intermediate range (maybe in hydro) but in horticulture there is always more to learn. Seems like a lifetime project....

Dee

 

[Jack og]

Any update on what worked best?
I’m in the same boat debating container size for soil, I have access to super soil and strains from a local commercial grow. Trying my hand at home on a few. I’m in central cali by ocean so have really bad marine layer effect. Into June and my girls are full on blooming, mature clones , about 12 weeks into grow from clone to current state. My concern is that I was going for longer outdoor cycle. Will this early blooming effect / affect this? Our light cycle here will deepen post July, meanwhile I’m supplementing with light in my greenhouse.
Og kush.

 

[Jack og]

Further info:
In 5 gal plastic containers, extra drainage holes. Inside a 6x8x14’ greenhouse.
Radiant heat( im on the coast and it’s always like 55dgf here)
Lights for supplement : led, 4 sets . Do have Mh:hps lights on 1000watts in case I see the need, so far it seems ample, it is outdoor.
In supersoil, feed wise , just supplement to keep the soil alive, Seattle organic supplement.
With molasses every 10th watering to add carbs
Did hit it with 16-16-16 to add extra feed as I was flowering wayyyy to early.
Otherwise nothing fancy.
The green house maintains a 72-78dgf during day and 68-72 during night/ supplement via thermal heat mass
Light cycle is 6am to 9am and then 4pm to 9pm as it’s foggy and overcast daily here till about July 17th and then the weather is about 14hrs of direct sunlight.
Did a massive cleaning and training as it was stretchy at about 11 weeks.
Stem/ trunk size is about 2-3”. Thick because I vegged all through winter off clones.
Pre-flower to flower stage now
Fear: maybe the flower is too early as the light cycle will increase soon.
So help pls!!
Fighting 3 damn types of cancer
Was diagnosed with plasmacytoma about 14 yrs ago, was good till about 8yrs ago, got thyroid cancer, damn near died as we didn’t know what was up. Been through chemo, worst thing ever. That’s when I learned about cannabis and have Been a believer since. Had to buy meds till this year with cali laws changing.
Now just 4 weeks ago got diagnosed with stage4 colon cancer. Refusing chemo as I don’t think I wanna go through it again. Beat 2 cancers and trying my bout with the 3rd one , going natural , RSO route.
Well enough about me. I’m new here and have b en a fan for years reading all the great adventures, finally I joined.
From fiji originally, live in Cali, central coast.
Cheers all

 

[DGP]

Mine are doing well at about 24" tall and 36" diameter. I moved them to 25 gallon fabric pots. Some of my first plants out even with supp. light tried to flower so I replaced them with back up plants I had in veg. We have had several days of on and off again rain but the plants look super happy and are in the praying position. Been feeding lightly but using photo plus bennies because I need more time to make my own teas etc.

Been busy indoors with another good harvest and then complete cleaning of the hydro system and room. I don't know if other people experience this but my current strain I have been running for 4 complete cycles is not doing it for me any more as far as medicinal effect. I guess I have become accustom to it so my indoor grow is switching to Hollyweed and I kept a nice mother of my sorted F2 of this hybrid. The F2 pheno I selected and had named P1 is the one that is outside. She is a true hybrid 50/50 but grows super huge indoors (not unmanageable) and easily exceeds 6 feet even when vegged for only 4-5 weeks. I am looking forward to what she can do outside without much of any restrictions and the natural environment. She is bug resistant, makes hard golf ball like nugs and seems mold and mildew resistant (even when my indoor grow gets pretty jungle like).

I will post some pics soon.

Dee

 

[DGP]

Further info:
In 5 gal plastic containers, extra drainage holes. Inside a 6x8x14’ greenhouse.
Radiant heat( im on the coast and it’s always like 55dgf here)
Lights for supplement : led, 4 sets . Do have Mh:hps lights on 1000watts in case I see the need, so far it seems ample, it is outdoor.
In supersoil, feed wise , just supplement to keep the soil alive, Seattle organic supplement.
With molasses every 10th watering to add carbs
Did hit it with 16-16-16 to add extra feed as I was flowering wayyyy to early.
Otherwise nothing fancy.
The green house maintains a 72-78dgf during day and 68-72 during night/ supplement via thermal heat mass
Light cycle is 6am to 9am and then 4pm to 9pm as it’s foggy and overcast daily here till about July 17th and then the weather is about 14hrs of direct sunlight.
Did a massive cleaning and training as it was stretchy at about 11 weeks.
Stem/ trunk size is about 2-3”. Thick because I vegged all through winter off clones.
Pre-flower to flower stage now
Fear: maybe the flower is too early as the light cycle will increase soon.
So help pls!!
Fighting 3 damn types of cancer
Was diagnosed with plasmacytoma about 14 yrs ago, was good till about 8yrs ago, got thyroid cancer, damn near died as we didn’t know what was up. Been through chemo, worst thing ever. That’s when I learned about cannabis and have Been a believer since. Had to buy meds till this year with cali laws changing.
Now just 4 weeks ago got diagnosed with stage4 colon cancer. Refusing chemo as I don’t think I wanna go through it again. Beat 2 cancers and trying my bout with the 3rd one , going natural , RSO route.
Well enough about me. I’m new here and have b en a fan for years reading all the great adventures, finally I joined.
From fiji originally, live in Cali, central coast.
Cheers all

I hope the RSO works for you. Best wishes with your grow and your battle. RSO is damn expensive if you don't grow your own plants. This is why I grow with almost no pesticides, fungicides etc because my main meds are RSO. The only pest control I have been using is pure plant oils and good bugs mostly. Do you have friends in the growing world that can help you with your supply? I know if your taking high doses it can be hard to keep enough medicine around. I struggle with that from time to time cause I take quite a bit every day myself.

Dee

 

[oldskol4evr]

i dont use anything bigger than a home depot 5 gal bucket outdoors,then wrap insulation around bucket,the silver bubble type,i dig about 6in into the soil were buckets are gonna be so the ground will help cool them in the heat,there a quick escape if need be as long as you dont think your gonna use the handle hahaha,wont happen,but ya i adverage 5 to 6 ft tall plants in them,drill 1/4 holes in bottom and also along bottom side of bucket,just around bottom edge,lets water out and worms in ,dig,this method stood though hurricane harvey last year,so works,i di have to put up sunshade for the terrible 11 to 2 oclock meltdown we have here daily,feed KNF,i dont like them air pots dries out soil to much cant keep soil damp in full sun so you overwater imo,but as long as you have bucket in the soil and insulation around the bucket to keep from frying the outer roots,your gold,make a make shift top to go over top of bucket to keep sun out helps too,i just took a lid that goes to bucket,drilled a 2in hole right threw center,then took a sawsall and cut the lid from 12 to 6 clock,snaps off in 2 pieces were you can amend with ewc or slurries