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Discussion in 'Concentrates & Processing' started by logic, Dec 8, 2009.
I do the whole process under pressure now and the really amps up the excitement level
If anyone that hasn't done this before be extremely careful no open flame ... preferably do it outside ...
I don't want to hear about any more :mad0233::mad0233:
I was told to use ethanol, but that stuff is really hard to find. ALso the people that sell it are very paranoid that you may be using it to make meth. They want ID in my area.
That being said, his video is very compelling. It's a pity Joe Schmoe can't chime in as he was very experienced in making it as well.
Thanks Tex, the alcohol is easier to access.
Dude, its not even open flame, the flash point is so low on these solvents that sometimes it can just be heat or a static discharge from walkin accross the carpet..on an electric stove it is the element that will get you where it sticks into that reciever thing, there are sparks of electricity right there and it is crazy dangerous.
I almost blew up a pressure vessel playing around with different release pressures to see what the difference would be...all shit that should be done in a lab with a friggin firefighter standing at the ready...I have the scares of a pioneer I tell ya. But i will say this experiment taught me alot of shit about what the oil alcohol suspension do under different pressures and how the finish product varies as a result...I guess if I had died horribley in a fire I might think differently
I actually tipped the whole damn pan over one time, talk about a chicken with his head cut off...crazy dangerous..good thing i can still think pretty calm when shits burning down around me....when the vapors flash fire on ya the suck all the oxygen out of the air and you can't breath and as you do you inhale flaming solvent which usually is invisible if ya got the good stuff. If you have ever been into fast cars or drag racing, its kind of like a nitro methane fire but with no fire suit on or halon gas system to save ya.
aloha....rick's oil is the absolute bomb...we've been giving a couple patients the oil out here for some types of cancer and we've been getting positive feed back from their doctors....it really does work....pure cannabinoid oil...saturate your system...and let it work for you....i'd rather be high for a year...then killing myself with chemo...anyone else know people who are personally treating themselves and it's working...I would love to hear how other folks are doing....I'm gonna head back out to cali and show some more folks that this is better then BHO and bubble hash...we prefer to eat it ...so it travels through all your organs...look forward to hearing the news...
Be safe...and Gro-On
I am making gelcaps now as well, they work great for people that want to ingest their meds..I also use it instead of canna butter in any and all recipes, no hay butter taste at all, totally hidden
using iso for phoenix tears
we tend to sway more to EverClear as the solvent...it strips the cannabinoids ...evaporates well and doesn't leave a residue taste...patients say that the oil has like a hint of mint or licorish ....good job though...oil looks nice...i used 7 lbs of trim and fluff and pulled 8 oz of oil...my friend has prostate cancer..they told him cuz of his age/pacemaker he could only do chemo...he told them no chemo..i'm gonna ride it out...we talked him into the oil and he's been doing well since..if he goes another six months with no cancer signs...they might clear him...almost 1 yr later...keep up the good work.
aloha and Gro-On
so how much does each cap weigh when filled...i know we've been giving our patients a half gram three times daily...(1/2 gram gel caps)(thanks..gonna try that next time)...would make it a less of a sticky situation...I tend to make oil..not butter...better for cooking...less on chloresterol....results..clean and healthier way to self medicate...continue the good work
Everclear has way to many impuities in it for me, at just 190 proof or 95% alcohol the boiling point is a little lower and becuase it is ethyl alcohol could be subject to alcohol exise taxes when sold, that licorish taste is a binder added to the liquor which again, for me steps away from the purity, not that the way I do it anymore pure in the end product but the solvent used sure is..
Here are some common solvent boiling points:
(Consider them all toxic but the ones labelled "toxic" are REALLY nasty...)
ACETONE (dimethyl ketone, ketone propanone, propanone)
bp 56.48 C
BENZENE (C6H6, benzol, phenyl hydride, coal naptha) (included for comparison and cautions...you wouldn't want it around yourself anyway)
bp 80.1 C,
TOXIC: 3000 ppm vapor considered high concentration, toxic via inhalation or skin absorption as well as oral ingestion, prolonged inhalation of low concentrations also toxic
NOTE: do not confuse with benzine which is a petroleum distillate
Caution: TOXIC: Benzene is a recognized leukemogen (causes leukemia)!
BUTANE (C4H10, n-butane, methylethyl methane, butyl hydride)
bp -0.5 C
CHLOROFORM (CHCL3, trichloromethane)
bp 62.26 C,
DICHLOROMETHANE see methylene chloride
bp aprox 174 C
DIETHYL ETHER (C2H5-O-C2H5, ether, ethyl ether, anesthesia ether, ethyl oxide)
bp 35 C
ETHYL ALCOHOL (ethanol, methyl corbinol, spirit of wine, grain alcohol, Everclear, 95%)
bp 78.32 C,
note: there have been reports of people using denatured alcohol as a solvent.
NOT a good idea if the result is for human or animal use.
May be ok if it is denatured only with something that will be eliminated when the solvent is boiled off (e.g. with methyl alcohol).
If you don't ABSOUTELY know that you can eliminate the denaturant, then don't use denatured alcohol!
Results varying from death to blindness could result!
bp aprox 98 C
bp aprox 69 C
ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL (dimethyl alcohol, sec-propyl alcohol, isopropanol)
bp 80.3 C,
METHYL ALCOHOL (methanol, wood alcohol)
bp 64.8 C,
TOXIC !! death to blindness can result from it's ingestion!
METHYLENE CHLORIDE (CH2Cl2, dichloromethane)
NAPTHA, V.M. & P. (benzine, 76 degree naptha)
bp 100-140 C,
NAPTHA, V.M. & P.
bp 138-165 C,
NONANE (C9H20, n-nonane)
bp aprox 151 C
bp aprox 126 C
PENTANE (C5H12, n-pentane)
bp aprox 36 C
PETROLEUM SPIRITS (petroleum benzine, petroleum naptha, light ligroin, petroleum ether, mineral spirits)
bp 35-180 C,
alpha-TRICHLOROETHANE (CH3CCl3, 1,1,1-trichloroethane, methyl chloroform)
bp 74.1 C,
TOLUENE (C6H5CH3, methylbenzene, phenylmethane, toluol)
bp 110.4 C
TURPENTINE (spirit of turpentine, turpentine gum, turpentine oil)
bp 154-170 C
bp 100 C (212 F)
Amazing solvent that you can actually drink!
(m-xylene) bp 139 C
(o-xylene) bp 144.4 C
(p-xylene) bp 138.3 C
you smoking oils made with everclear or just ingesting?
great news about your friend - love to hear that! it really is a miracle plant the govt is trying to suppress it but the word and the truth will come out...
no open flames
for safest results in making the oil...use a rice cooker....i want to make sure all these horticulturists stay alive...and not flame broiled...aloha and Gro-On
Boiling Points and Solvents
Everyone has boiled water at some point so everyone has a basic understanding of what is meant by boiling. We put a pot on the stove, go away for ten minutes, and come back to find the water boiling vigorously, ready for the pasta, eggs, or oatmeal to be put in.
To really watch what happens with water we must have a thermometer and some patience. When we put cool tap water into a beaker and place this on the stove and turn on the heat we may see ripples in the water as the water heats. These ripples are called Schleeren patterns and arise from light being diffracted off of the regions of water with different temperatures and hence different densities. This is exactly the same optical effect that gives rise to mirages. Since the water is being heated from below, the lighter, warm water will rise in the beaker causing cooler surface water to flow to the bottom.
At some temperature, usually around 80 oC, small bubbles will be observed on the inner surface of the beaker. Many people confuse this with boiling. These bubbles are the air that was dissolved in the water at room temperature coming out of solution. Air becomes less soluble in water as the temperature goes up.
If we continue to heat the water we will begin to observe bubbles form and collapse on the bottom of the beaker. These are the precursors to true boiling. The water on the bottom surface of the beaker is heated to the point where it converts to vapor, but this vapor cools rapidly as it expands and as it encounters slightly cooler water just above the bottom of the beaker. As the bulk water in the beaker becomes hot the bubbles begin to break free of the bottom and rise. Only when the water in the beaker is uniformly hot will the bubbles rise from the bottom and break free at the top. This is often called a rolling boil and is the point of true boiling. The phenomenological definition of boiling is the existance of sustained bubbles that break free of the surface.
Let's look more closely at this process. The bubbles that form at the boiling point contain water vapor. In order for a bubble to exist the pressure of the vapor in the bubble must be pushing against the water with exactly the same force that the water is pushing back. Assuming that we have a normal beaker and just a few cm of water, almost all of the pressure being exerted by the water is air pressure. Hence for the bubble to exist the vapor pressure must be equal to atmospheric pressure. We define a "normal" boiling point as the boiling point of the liquid at 1 atm, or another way of saying this is that the "normal" boiling point is the temperature at which the liquid's vapor pressure is equal to 1 atm.
In previous notes we have established that vapor pressure is determined by both temperature and by intermolecular forces, it should be no surprise that the "normal" boiling point will reflect the intermolecular forces of the liquid.
Does "Boiling" Mean "Hot"?
If boiling occurs when the vapor pressure inside the bubble equals atmospheric pressure, what would happen if the atmospheric pressure would drop? The simple example of this is the case of a camper who is on the top of a 10,000 ft mountain. While water boils at 100 degrees C at sea level (where the atmospheric pressure is 760mm Hg) the atmospheric pressure at 10,000 ft altitude is about 530 mm Hg. Because the boiling point of water is about 90 degrees C at this altitude., not only will our camper find that his food will cook a little slower than normal, any attempt to boil water to kill germs and pathogens may be unsuccessful since the water isn't getting hot enough.
What about boiling things at increased pressures?
Pressure cookers take advantage of just this; they are equipped with a valve that lets gas escape only when the pressure inside the pot exceeds some fixed value. This valve is often set at 15 psi, which means that the water vapor inside the pot must reach a pressure of 2 atmospheres (1520mm Hg) before it can escape. Because water doesn't reach a vapor pressure of 2 atm until the temperature is 120oC, it boils in this container at 120oC, so things cook faster because they are hotter!
Boiling Chips, what are they and why do we use them?
Liquids often boil in an uneven fashion, or "bump" as it's called in chemistry. Bumping occurs frequently when there aren't any scratches on the walls of the container to help bubbles form. Superheating then occurs- because the walls of your boiling pot are smooth and bubbles of gas cannot easily form, the temperature of the liquid can actually rise above it's boiling point without boiling!. This can be dangerous because when bubbles finally do form, they usually erupt violently because so much of the liquid is just itching to boil but hasn't been able to, that it all goes at once!
Bumping is easily prevented by adding a few boiling chips to the liquid, which provide a rough surface upon which bubbles can form. When boiling chips are used, essentially all of the bubbles that rise through the solution will form on the surface of these chips.
Boiling chips are small, insoluble, stones made of calcium carbonate, silicon carbide, or carbon (crushed coal) just to name a few. These stones have pores inside or sharp points outside which provide a place for bubbles to easily form.
Always use a few boiling chips when boiling liquids, especially solvents.
Never add a boiling chip to a hot liquid, because it can cause immediate boiling over of the solution. If you forget to add a boiling chip before you begin, you must cool the solution before adding one to prevent product loss. "Porous" boiling chips cannot be re-used since the pores inside these stones become filled with liquid on cooling. "Sharp" boiling chips like silicon carbide or coal can often be reused until they become coated with guk and become innefective.
The above information was gleaned from, amongst others, http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~honors/
SO what does all of this have to do with herbs?
Tinctures are made with solvents, and some herbs and fragrent flowers are better extracted with solvents than by steam distillation for various reasons, (ie being destroyed by steam temperature). Often times, you'll want to remove some or all of the solvent from the extracted plant material, or concentrate your tincture that you've just made, and boiling it off is a good way to do it, as long as the boiling temperature of the solvent won't hurt your product.
When you are distilling (boiling) things, you can tell what solvent is currently boiling away in your setup, by watching a thermometer that is placed in the vapor of the boiling substance.
For example, if it's ethanol (alcohol) that you're boiling off, the vapors will be at 78 degrees C..... if it's water you're boiling off, the vapors will be at 100 degrees C
Now I chose these two solvents (yup, water is a solvent, and a great one at that!) because in the case where they are mixed, a funny thing happens... water and ethanol in particular form something called an azetropic mixture (also known as a constant-boiling mixture) which in simple terms means that the alcohol cannot be separated from the water completely...at somewhere around 95% pure, the mere act of boiling won't remove any more water. That's why you find "Everclear" at a maximum purity of 190 proof, or 95%, because it's impossible to remove any more of the water from it using distillation!!
So when you boil off a mixture of alcohol and water, expect temperatures somewhat different than the individual components alone...ie alcohol mixed with water will boil at closer to 88-90 degrees C, and depending on the ratio of alcohol and water, the boiling point can be anywhere between 80 and 100 degrees c!!
Remember, when you are boiling things at higher altitudes than sea level, the actual boiling temperatures of all liquids will be less than they are at sea level!!!
There are charts and nomographs that you can use to find the corrected boiling temperatures of solvents for your altitude
SO when your thermometer just WON'T go as high as you think it ought to, take a moment and remember that if you live in the mountains, you shouldn't toss your thermometer in the trash, because it's doing exactly what it ought to!!
cant tell you how many of your posts i have bookmarked bro - good info!
right on tex
if you check with the US patten offices ...the Us Board of Health has the patten on machines that can extract individual cannabinoids...hmmm.... but thanks for the knowledge on the different solvents..greatly appreciated
definitely didn't want to be a crispy creme
Only thing about a rice cooker I don't like is that in cook or boil mode the temps are set to boil water and wtaer boils dangerously close to the same temps that break down the THC....alot of aggitation and paying attention is required and then when i get down pretty far i go to the double boiler setup for the last hour or so to slow the process down a little..
Smooth teflon pans are not as effective as grooved or dimpled pans, you almost have to use boiling stones to get the air in the mix for the breakdown and seperation.
aloha rollin j
Thanks...I've been researching and teaching myself over the past year...i figure if I have to put it in my body...i want the best that i can get...I am currently researching and hoping to get my online med magazine up and running...i'll try to keep you posted...any article/knowledge contributions are greatly appreciated
aloha...be safe..and Gro-On
Here is my next toy.....should have it in a little bit, then it's on like Donkey Kong...
The Professional Round Bottom unit performs the same functions as the standard Professional unit with the added benefit of being able to pull a deep vacuum. The use of vacuum enables the user to distill at much lower temperatures and do extractions much faster. The unit comes complete with an integrated cold trap to capture solvent vapors and return the solvent to the main flask. It also comes with a high quality vacuum pump which pulls a vacuum of 20 microns and a CFM of 4, and a heating mantle with controls.
Seperating specific cannabinoids is expensive stuff...there was a guy at the Hydro Expo a few years ago that was doing that...crazy gear required
this is very true...i sat there for eight hours..swirling it ever so often (the rice cooker)....to prevent over heating/help with the evaporation...