Same Problems Again Week 5 Flower

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AmateurAmy

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Hi guys. I have some plants here grown in coco in 4 gallon fabric pots. Feeding at aproximately 1.2-1.4 EC from a base of 0.1-0.2EC (80%RO, 20%Tap). Fed for 3 minutes 2 hours after lights on then for 1 minute intervals every hour with the final feed 3 hours before lights off (reason I do this is so they have a drying period overnight and ive also heard they dont drink nutrients at first light?). 4x4gallon pots covering a canopy space of 2.9m^2. 2x600W lights at a distance of aproximately 22" from canopy. Temperature rarely exceeds 26°C so they are a very comfortable room temperature, however they did go through a period of heat stress recently because the light was a bit close.
Feed is made up of aproximately 1ml/L micro 1.5ml/L Bloom and 1ml/L Calmag, always pH of 5.8.
Using CO2 which bumps ppm to about a consistent 700ppm.
It always seems to be an issue with Calcium as I get very clear and obvious symptoms at the top leaves, fan leaves mottled with spots. It also appears like it may be some other deficiency along with the calcium deficiency, petioles are purple in places, dark green leaves? Splotches and yellowing appearing as shown in photos.
The Micro in the 3 part series is 7% calcium whereas my calmag is only 3% however it is 2% Nitrogen in the calmag so I dont want to go overboard with the Nitrogen in order to bump up the calcium. The runoff pH is kinda low at about 5.0pH and roughly similar EC as whats going in, but ive only measured the first morning runoff. Makes me think its a pH issue and I need to flush and bring pH up? But the EC of runoff is consistent with whats going in so it wouldnt be a buildup? Can anyone shine some light on what my issue is? Ive been growing for years but I always have the same problems at about week 4 and ive no idea what keeps happening. Thanks. Amy.
 
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Monster762

Monster762

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(PICS BELOW)
Hi guys. I have some plants here grown in coco in 4 gallon fabric pots. Feeding at aproximately 1.2-1.4 EC from a base of 0.1-0.2EC (80%RO, 20%Tap). Fed for 3 minutes 2 hours after lights on then for 1 minute intervals every hour with the final feed 3 hours before lights off (reason I do this is so they have a drying period overnight and ive also heard they dont drink nutrients at first light?). 4x4gallon pots covering a canopy space of 2.9m^2. 2x600W lights at a distance of aproximately 22" from canopy. Temperature rarely exceeds 26°C so they are a very comfortable room temperature, however they did go through a period of heat stress recently because the light was a bit close.
Feed is made up of aproximately 1ml/L micro 1.5ml/L Bloom and 1ml/L Calmag, always pH of 5.8.
Using CO2 which bumps ppm to about a consistent 700ppm.
It always seems to be an issue with Calcium as I get very clear and obvious symptoms at the top leaves, fan leaves mottled with spots. It also appears like it may be some other deficiency along with the calcium deficiency, petioles are purple in places, dark green leaves? Splotches and yellowing appearing as shown in photos.
The Micro in the 3 part series is 7% calcium whereas my calmag is only 3% however it is 2% Nitrogen in the calmag so I dont want to go overboard with the Nitrogen in order to bump up the calcium. The runoff pH is kinda low at about 5.0pH and roughly similar EC as whats going in, but ive only measured the first morning runoff. Makes me think its a pH issue and I need to flush and bring pH up? But the EC of runoff is consistent with whats going in so it wouldnt be a buildup? Can anyone shine some light on what my issue is? Ive been growing for years but I always have the same problems at about week 4 and ive no idea what keeps happening. Thanks. Amy.
Is this a grow micro bloom combo n you’re replacing the grow with calmag? If so that’s your issue. Potassium def and your mix now has too much n for the k to go with it.
I’m no pro
is the grow part higher in k?
 
Monster762

Monster762

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Is this a grow micro bloom combo n you’re replacing the grow with calmag? If so that’s your issue. Potassium def and your mix now has too much n for the k to go with it.
I’m no pro
is the grow part higher in k?
I’m kinda new and I thought grow was for veg but the way these companies make em now they run it all the way til flush. And advanced nutrients schedule doesn’t drop the n at all so I alter it by actually dropping micro and using calimagic 1% n calmag
 
A

AmateurAmy

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NPK Ratios are:
Gro (3-1-7)
Micro (5-0-1)
Bloom(0-5-4)

I was told by somebody that you don't need the grow part of the 3 part series and that you should use 6ml/gal of micro and 9ml/gal of bloom. Ive been feeding a bit weaker than that as i tend to get tip burn at that level. Maybe they were lucky that that worked for them. At this stage your supposed to add about half the amount of gro as micro. I am adding the same amount of calmag as i add micro. I am under the impression that 6-9 is a special formula that some guy lucas or heads came up with and this is why Im using it.
Does it look like potasium deficiency? Im thinking more likely phosphorus and calcium, probably due to bad ph?

Is this a grow micro bloom combo n you’re replacing the grow with calmag? If so that’s your issue. Potassium def and your mix now has too much n for the k to go with it.
I’m no pro
is the grow part higher in k?
 
Rootbound

Rootbound

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Your runoff PH is pretty low at 5.0. I would bet that this is where your problem is.
 
B

brianbadonde

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find out the ph in your coco (not the runoff) grab a couple of fistfuls of coco and leave it to soak in some distilled water for 5-10minutes this should give you a reasonably accurate measurement of rootzone ph ,correct it if necessary.Then I would flush those ladies with 0.6ec above base they look like they need it.
good luck
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

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NPK Ratios are:
Gro (3-1-7)
Micro (5-0-1)
Bloom(0-5-4)

I was told by somebody that you don't need the grow part of the 3 part series and that you should use 6ml/gal of micro and 9ml/gal of bloom. Ive been feeding a bit weaker than that as i tend to get tip burn at that level. Maybe they were lucky that that worked for them. At this stage your supposed to add about half the amount of gro as micro. I am adding the same amount of calmag as i add micro. I am under the impression that 6-9 is a special formula that some guy lucas or heads came up with and this is why Im using it.
Does it look like potasium deficiency? Im thinking more likely phosphorus and calcium, probably due to bad ph?
Don’t know much about coco but if you don’t need grow how is this a 3 part program. If only for flowering that you cut out grow thats different of course.
Micro has much nitrogen in it i think. Also for flower i would prefer giving more potassium and phosphorus than nitrogen. And grow part seems like it has more p and k than micro. Don’t know the schedules and all, soil grower myself but just my two cents.
By the way it looks like its phosphorus deficiency. Low ph might be locking it out.
 
Last edited:
Monster762

Monster762

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263
NPK Ratios are:
Gro (3-1-7)
Micro (5-0-1)
Bloom(0-5-4)

I was told by somebody that you don't need the grow part of the 3 part series and that you should use 6ml/gal of micro and 9ml/gal of bloom. Ive been feeding a bit weaker than that as i tend to get tip burn at that level. Maybe they were lucky that that worked for them. At this stage your supposed to add about half the amount of gro as micro. I am adding the same amount of calmag as i add micro. I am under the impression that 6-9 is a special formula that some guy lucas or heads came up with and this is why Im using it.
Does it look like potasium deficiency? Im thinking more likely phosphorus and calcium, probably due to bad ph?
Yup that’s it your overdosing nitrogen n deficient in potassium. Drop micro and use the grow.
Better yet I would go with equal parts on the 3. Then gradually drop the micro. How many weeks left? K is way more important than people stress. It’s actually more important than p in flower. People get it all wrong. K helps uptake of everything. K is also what swells buds not p. P is responsible for producing budsites k is what actually feeds em. By week 5 you should be running very low or no nitrogen at all unless you know your strain is over 8 weeks. I’m no pro though. I go through issues too we all do but I’d google the actual nutrient companies feed chart. Follow that. If anything lower the high n parts but be sure to check ph cause ph perfect ain’t perfect if you alter the parts.
 
A

AmateurAmy

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Your runoff PH is pretty low at 5.0. I would bet that this is where your problem is.

Any idea why I would consistently be getting low pH toward the second half of flowering? I am feeding at 5.8 every time and getting runoff. EC of runoff is consistent with what goes in so no buildup?

Yup that’s it your overdosing nitrogen n deficient in potassium. Drop micro and use the grow.
Better yet I would go with equal parts on the 3. Then gradually drop the micro. How many weeks left? K is way more important than people stress. It’s actually more important than p in flower. People get it all wrong. K helps uptake of everything. K is also what swells buds not p. P is responsible for producing budsites k is what actually feeds em. By week 5 you should be running very low or no nitrogen at all unless you know your strain is over 8 weeks. I’m no pro though. I go through issues too we all do but I’d google the actual nutrient companies feed chart. Follow that. If anything lower the high n parts but be sure to check ph cause ph perfect ain’t perfect if you alter the parts.

Pottasium could well be the probem. Its frustrating that all these issues look similar. I have some lower leaves with more telltale signs of pottasium deficiency but I assumed these leaves may have been from an earlier problem. Maybe Nitrogen is locking out Pottasium somehow as the Calmag really bumps the Nitrogen up. I still think it is pH related. Im going to do a flush and maybe in thr future I should be doing more regular flushes? Ive heard of people flushing midway through flower and just before flipping. Ive started to use a 4-8 ratio ml/gal micro-bloom formula which will bump pottasium and phosphorus however with such a low rootzone pH im not sure it will help without fixing that issue first.

Ive been growing years and always have this problem, just wish I knew what im doing wrong or what Im doing right. Its driving me mad lol.

I have noticed in past grows that my best plants had runoff pH close to 5.8 and the worst looking plants had runoff pH closer to 5.0. All signs point to a pH problem but why is pH dropping in the rootzone?
 
stonestacker

stonestacker

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I also fought this problem before I started using calmag. Then my weed was real harsh because I ran the calmag all the way through a run. Dropping the cal mag after the 4th week of flower the Ca- would show up in two weeks. But the weed was much smoother. I have found that letting my ph swing from 5.8 to 6.2 6.0 is my main target in coco works best for me. I use Calsnit for veg and first 4 weeks of flower. Then I switch to the E-CA-10 for the next 3-4 weeks of a 10 week run. I no longer get Ca- and my weed is much much better...
Before I started the new regiment of cal mag G wouldn't even try my smoke. The last time I gave him some I got a complement from him. Yep fattened my head for a minute. I also switched from rockwool to coco. G thinks that was the big difference. I think it's a combo of both. I still had Ca- in coco at first.
In my experience if you start seeing the signs that you are showing you are too late to fix that run. Those leaves that you posted a pic of should feel leathery and get brittle even before they turn brown. I find that I have to hit them with high levels of calmag early and drop off after 4 weeks of flower. And it might help to pre charge your coco with cal mag.

I don't post in my thread much but if you go look you will see my Ca-.

Good luck.
 
Monster762

Monster762

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263
Any idea why I would consistently be getting low pH toward the second half of flowering? I am feeding at 5.8 every time and getting runoff. EC of runoff is consistent with what goes in so no buildup?



Pottasium could well be the probem. Its frustrating that all these issues look similar. I have some lower leaves with more telltale signs of pottasium deficiency but I assumed these leaves may have been from an earlier problem. Maybe Nitrogen is locking out Pottasium somehow as the Calmag really bumps the Nitrogen up. I still think it is pH related. Im going to do a flush and maybe in thr future I should be doing more regular flushes? Ive heard of people flushing midway through flower and just before flipping. Ive started to use a 4-8 ratio ml/gal micro-bloom formula which will bump pottasium and phosphorus however with such a low rootzone pH im not sure it will help without fixing that issue first.

Ive been growing years and always have this problem, just wish I knew what im doing wrong or what Im doing right. Its driving me mad lol.

I have noticed in past grows that my best plants had runoff pH close to 5.8 and the worst looking plants had runoff pH closer to 5.0. All signs point to a pH problem but why is pH dropping in the rootzone?
It’s not just about the npk #s in a 3 part. They are a base nutrient too. Also containing all your minerals and everything not directly npk. Those go out of sync and you see problems too. Each part will contain things. Like say part a will have no magnese no boron no iron all that stuff. Part b has the balance to make the other parts complete.
 
DrawoH

DrawoH

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fert burn... you're burning them up ... Flush them until the run off is close to eqaul with the source. decrease the amout of ferts you're using and add some carbohydrates to help their metabolism process their food more efficiently.
 
DetGrnThumb

DetGrnThumb

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Calcium is for Nitrogen motility which is much more necessary during vegetative growth and through the beginning of stretch. Magnesuim, sulfur and potassium are three essential nutrients for essential oil production. Once you get through about 12-14 days in flower peel back on your calcium and focus on mag/sulfur for secondary nute feedings. Products like mag amped and even our Elite Base B (Phosphorus, potassium, magnesium and sulfur) are additives you want to focus on when the stretch is slowing down and the focus is on essential oil production
 
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