Sea-Crop/Ormus

[LexLuthor]

What company sells the real SeaCrop?? I don't wanna buy a bottle on Ebay and it end up being some generic product that is inferior to the real one.

 

[Seamaiden]

I would start here: http://www.sea-crop.com/

 

[bushdriver]

hey (first post here).... sorry i want to chime in as i am experimenting with himalayan salt at the mo.. It was conclusive of the work of Dr Maynard Murray that high levels of sodium chloride allowed for greater uptake of the trace elements. His studies done with and without sodium suggested better results were achieved with it.... the main reason i didn't go with sea crop was it was more expensive and less available than sea salt. ideally i want to be doing organic dwc with a clean rez. i.e. no fish mix and stinky organic debris... something along the line of plant extracts and sea salt.

i'm in very early stages of experimentation and no i haven't tried ormus... it may be possible that the sodium is there in such a high concentration and integral to the structure of the salt that it is not taken up... but that is just a guess and i certainly am not claiming to know a lot or be professionally trained in this...

overwise how can seedlings germinate and grow healthily in 1500ppm sea salt plus, some claim as high as 3000ppm! wouldn't all that sodium chloride do them in then, especially at their vulnerable stage....?

 

[pork]

sea salt isn't just NaCl. it's the whole periodic table of the elements...way more than just 2 of them...and when everything is represented in it's natural balance, higher ppms can be achieve. At least this is what Dr. Murray's theory is based around. It is a combination of a lack of all minerals and the proper balance of them that has lead to us being such an unhealthy and sick species....the ocean is the healthiest ecosystem on the planet..no cancer for one...why? complete mineralization....

great book he's got...totally worth the read...periodically play with sea salts myself...but have lately been thinking that Kelp should essentially do the same thing, as it is from the sea...and some of these sea salt products are pricey...i've also seen people using straight sea salt from japan (which i wouldn't use post meltdown) or somewhere in Asia..can't remember...

 

[LexLuthor]

Pork, good info, but could you explain what 'post meltdown' means in context to your post??

 

[pork]

post fukushima nuclear plant meltdown...i wouldn't trust anything coming from japan due to radiation these days...or for a while...

 

[Seamaiden]

I don't think kelp (macroalgae) would do all the same things, and it's got other stuff added in it that, if/when overdone, can really fuck things up. Growth and other hormones, metabolites and the like, which you won't find in any salt mixes. I feel it's a good adjunct, but both should be used sparingly.

I find this stuff interesting because of my previous work in trade. I know that dry saltwater mixes can be very, very caustic. Do NOT ever let water drop into a bag of dry mix, it gets extremely hot, hot enough to burn. In fact, I'm sensitive to salt creep now after all the years working around tanks being exposed to it, but only on my forearms, I can let salt creep touch my skin anywhere else with no problems.

The Sea-90 doesn't taste all that salty, along with no temperature reaction occurring if I drip some water onto the dry product. I do like the taste.

 

[squiggly]

I don't think kelp (macroalgae) would do all the same things, and it's got other stuff added in it that, if/when overdone, can really fuck things up. Growth and other hormones, metabolites and the like, which you won't find in any salt mixes. I feel it's a good adjunct, but both should be used sparingly.

I find this stuff interesting because of my previous work in trade. I know that dry saltwater mixes can be very, very caustic. Do NOT ever let water drop into a bag of dry mix, it gets extremely hot, hot enough to burn. In fact, I'm sensitive to salt creep now after all the years working around tanks being exposed to it, but only on my forearms, I can let salt creep touch my skin anywhere else with no problems.

The Sea-90 doesn't taste all that salty, along with no temperature reaction occurring if I drip some water onto the dry product. I do like the taste.

It'll depend on the salt whether or not the dissolution/binding of water will be exo or endothermic.

 

[Seamaiden]

Explain, please. I was assuming it was other minerals interacting with the water that was causing the reaction. Dry salt mixes are very different from sea salt derived from evaporation for this reason.

 

[squiggly]

Explain, please. I was assuming it was other minerals interacting with the water that was causing the reaction. Dry salt mixes are very different from sea salt derived from evaporation for this reason.

For instance, dissolution of sodium hydroxide evolves heat. This is an exothermic reaction.

Whereas, mixing water and ammonium nitrate is an endothermic reaction.

 

[bushdriver]

seamaiden can you post your nutrient recipe for growing with sea 90 and have you done any grows with sea salt of another source as your base...? Been having slight problems using himalaya salt and was thinking to switch to a real sea salt with a higher mineral percentage...

 

[squiggly]

Explain, please.

I can get super mathy if you want. This all depends on a chemical property known as enthalpy which is basically just saying the energy in the system.

The internal energy of a system is equal to:

dU = dw + dq

This is a differential equation. U is "internal energy", w is work, and q is heat. the "d's" stand for "instantaneous change in" each of those respective values.

What we find is that at constant volume, dw = 0 and therefor dU = dq

When we integrate we find that ΔU = Δq

which is the same as saying (U[final] - U [initial]) = (q[final] - q[initial])

Often we'll say that ΔQv = ΔU which is the heat evolved at constant volume is equal to the change in internal energy.


Physicists use U, because they are often concerned with things at a constant volume (like an engine).

As chemists we are concerned with things happening at constant pressure most often.

I will spare you all of the math and simple say that:
ΔQv = ΔU
and
ΔQp = ΔH
Which says that the heat evolved at constant pressure is equal to the change in enthalpy.

The reason we think of constant pressure processes in chemistry is obvious. Most of our stuff is done in open flasks/beakers/reaction vessels and the pressure being exerted on them (from the atmosphere) at any given time is usually constant, even if--for instance--we have pumped all the air out as in a vacuum purge. We're still sitting at an even -29.9mmHg generally speaking.

It's MUCH harder to maintain constant volume, though we do this when using stuff like bomb calorimeters and the like (which tell us how many calories are in the food you eat--we actually blow the stuff up and measure the heat evolved to tell us how many calories are in it)

 

[Seamaiden]

Oh my God, squigglator, the maths boggle my mind. Super-mathy makes my eyes spin in my head!

seamaiden can you post your nutrient recipe for growing with sea 90 and have you done any grows with sea salt of another source as your base...? Been having slight problems using himalaya salt and was thinking to switch to a real sea salt with a higher mineral percentage...

I'm not using the sea salt as a base, I only use it as an adjunct, and use it as a foliar. Last year was my first time, outside, on my veggie and cannabis crops as a foliar. It stopped blossom end rot on my tomatoes and squashes, and previously I'd been using Ca (along with ensuring watering was as even as possible, didn't make a difference), so that alone got my attention.

I've currently got a small amount (to 220ppm) in a cloner, just to see what happens.

In any event, I'm an organic soil food web gardener outside, so I use cover crops, mineralization of the soil, incorporation of organic matter and am working on building up the soil and humus. That means that, for the method of growing I've been using for the past 2-3 years, I use almost no additional nutrients. I might give a tea here and there, usually with a small amount of sugar of some sort, and some foliars, usually Bt/Spinosad in preparation of the future bud caterpillars, but otherwise I find the beauty of my OD growing is that I do far, far less work once I've gotten the inputs done. My goal is to not have to even look at my plants more often than once a week.

Maybe I should change my nick to The Lazy Grower.

 

[bushdriver]

thanks sea maiden, i grow in a similar way outdoors but am having a go at dwc indoors.. experimenting with how to do things organically and thinking of switching salts to sea 90... is that the salt you are using?

 

[LexLuthor]

thanks sea maiden, i grow in a similar way outdoors but am having a go at dwc indoors.. experimenting with how to do things organically and thinking of switching salts to sea 90... is that the salt you are using?

Your using pure organics in a DWC setup?? Sounds tough, good luck and hopefully you can dial-in everything.

 

[Seamaiden]

thanks sea maiden, i grow in a similar way outdoors but am having a go at dwc indoors.. experimenting with how to do things organically and thinking of switching salts to sea 90... is that the salt you are using?

Yes, that's what I chose to try first.

 

[bushdriver]

Your using pure organics in a DWC setup?? Sounds tough, good luck and hopefully you can dial-in everything.

yep its been real tough... i started with the intention of going fully organic but have been easing myself in. was trying out the maynard murray salt theory but with himalayan salt.... have had a stable ph and ppms, it kinda works but definately isn't the best salt for base nutes, wish i just got sea 90 shipped in as it has 16% trace minerals as opposed to himalayans 2%.... i have been using 200ppm of ionic grow alongside them... got some bad burns a coupe of weeks ago upping grow nutes which one plant is having a real hard time riding out.

today i switched them onto normal chem nutes and will keep them this way till i get some sea90, then i'll try introducing sea salt again aongside lowered chem nutes... if they take to the sea 90 i will then be switching the chem nutes to an organic source. seems that europe really hasn't caught on with the idea as there are no suppliers of sea 90.... i have an incling that celtic sea salt would probably be as good but have read conflicting information on it over mineral %... considering i'm basing my approach on the doctor's i should really use his salts. my bad

also sea maiden don't you think 200ppm is too little?, thats 30ppm of trace minerals... my seeds happilly germinated in 1500ppm of himalyan salt which i just figured is the same ppm of trace minerals...! man i gotta switch salts.

 

[LexLuthor]

yep its been real tough... i started with the intention of going fully organic but have been easing myself in. was trying out the maynard murray salt theory but with himalayan salt.... have had a stable ph and ppms, it kinda works but definately isn't the best salt for base nutes, wish i just got sea 90 shipped in as it has 16% trace minerals as opposed to himalayans 2%.... i have been using 200ppm of ionic grow alongside them... got some bad burns a coupe of weeks ago upping grow nutes which one plant is having a real hard time riding out.

today i switched them onto normal chem nutes and will keep them this way till i get some sea90, then i'll try introducing sea salt again aongside lowered chem nutes... if they take to the sea 90 i will then be switching the chem nutes to an organic source. seems that europe really hasn't caught on with the idea as there are no suppliers of sea 90.... i have an incling that celtic sea salt would probably be as good but have read conflicting information on it over mineral %... considering i'm basing my approach on the doctor's i should really use his salts. my bad

also sea maiden don't you think 200ppm is too little?, thats 30ppm of trace minerals... my seeds happilly germinated in 1500ppm of himalyan salt which i just figured is the same ppm of trace minerals...! man i gotta switch salts.

I've never heard of anybody using sea salt like that. I wouldn't keep switching nutes from sea salt, to chem, to Sea 90, then to organics, all during the same cycle. I think it would be better if you changed 1 factor at a time during 1 grow.

Since your using RDWC you have to give all your plants the same thing, but if you had a few buckets of soil it would be easier for you to use different products on each plant so you could see the difference and dial-in your nutrient regime more accurately.

Also, seeds germinating are alot different then when they grow because when they germ they don't actually absorb nutrients or minerals. I honestly don't know anything about the sea salt thing, but thats just my 2 cents, good luck bro.

 

[bushdriver]

I've never heard of anybody using sea salt like that. I wouldn't keep switching nutes from sea salt, to chem, to Sea 90, then to organics, all during the same cycle. I think it would be better if you changed 1 factor at a time during 1 grow.

Since your using RDWC you have to give all your plants the same thing, but if you had a few buckets of soil it would be easier for you to use different products on each plant so you could see the difference and dial-in your nutrient regime more accurately.

Also, seeds germinating are alot different then when they grow because when they germ they don't actually absorb nutrients or minerals. I honestly don't know anything about the sea salt thing, but thats just my 2 cents, good luck bro.

cheers for your input but all i have done is remove the salt from my grow, the nutes they are on they were already on but at lowered concentrations... The basis of this style of growing which has been patented and trialled for many years is you grow with 1000ppm-2000ppm of sea salt alongside 1/4 - 1/2 strength nutrients (hydroponically).. If i was growing in soil i wouldn't be experimenting as i've tried most combinations of things and would be confident i would never lose a plant but i am new to dwc. i have figured since posting in this thread that the reasons i am not getting great results is the salt i should be using is 8 times better (sea 90).. seeing as i have scraped along with the wrong salt, the salt switch should make all the difference...

so in theory germinating in 15000ppm sea 90 is only 225 ppm of trace elements.... considering i'm using RO that is just a hearty background ppm. thats not including the high level of NaCl which accompany it and are necessary for those trace elements to be absorbed.. thats why i have read the suggested levels to be this high, and have read a lot higher...... its similar to growing on volcanic soil but its water.. You don't need typical npk contributions, just a splash on N in veg and P in flower... The idea is to grow much more chemically complex plants that possess great attributes such as greater nutrition, flavour, oil production, resistance to pests and shorter ripening times... If done properly it supposedly will increase your yields but i am more interested in growing organic hydroponically with a cleanish looking rez. oh how much easier would it be if i just didn't care...

 

[Seamaiden]

yep its been real tough... i started with the intention of going fully organic but have been easing myself in. was trying out the maynard murray salt theory but with himalayan salt.... have had a stable ph and ppms, it kinda works but definately isn't the best salt for base nutes, wish i just got sea 90 shipped in as it has 16% trace minerals as opposed to himalayans 2%.... i have been using 200ppm of ionic grow alongside them... got some bad burns a coupe of weeks ago upping grow nutes which one plant is having a real hard time riding out.

today i switched them onto normal chem nutes and will keep them this way till i get some sea90, then i'll try introducing sea salt again aongside lowered chem nutes... if they take to the sea 90 i will then be switching the chem nutes to an organic source. seems that europe really hasn't caught on with the idea as there are no suppliers of sea 90.... i have an incling that celtic sea salt would probably be as good but have read conflicting information on it over mineral %... considering i'm basing my approach on the doctor's i should really use his salts. my bad

also sea maiden don't you think 200ppm is too little?, thats 30ppm of trace minerals... my seeds happilly germinated in 1500ppm of himalyan salt which i just figured is the same ppm of trace minerals...! man i gotta switch salts.

My normal method using this aerocloner is to use about 250ppm (can't remember the EC) total nutrient solution, so I went lower with the sea salt to allow some wiggle room. Since I do mostly organics, much of what I use cannot be measured well or accurately except volumentrically and it's gotta be a weaker solution for the cloning.