Second Grow, First Indoor. The Start Of Something Wonderful.

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MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

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I am a rebel, I don't go for the cannabis liquid nutrient stuff, I think it is 99% hype. I use Jack's Hydro pro and Jack's Calcium Nitrate pro along with epsom salts in a ratio that varies slightly from veg to flower. Jack's is just as effective as anything out there and is really inexpensive. It starts out in veg in a 3-1-2 ratio (NPK) and then transitions to 1-1-2 in full flower. Very easy to use and 25 lbs of each (hydro pro and CalNit pro) last me for almost 2 years at a cost of about $120 (with the epsom salts). I run a 4X5 flower room and 3X5 veg area with anywhere between 4 and 8 plants and my system holds about 50 gallons of water (one water change every 7-10 days).

If I were in you shoes I wouldn't be worried so much about mainlining but would just take the plants from veg thru harvest and just learn a little each time. Don't try too many new things at once. Just get through your cycle and learn about all the things that can go wrong. The definition of an expert isn't necessarily about raw talent or genius abilities but an expert is often someone who has made all the mistakes possible and learned how to deal with any issue that comes up whether it is your own screw up or a random bug invasion etc. Just get them going and keep them pruned and cleaned up and watch them go, given good conditions (environment) they will do most of the work for you.

My personal goal with each cycle is to learn, test and idea or two and then beat my last harvest. If my harvest was 1 gram per watt last run I am happy if I get 1.1 the next time and so on. If the numbers don't improve then I want to know why. Keep a journal of everything you do and when including your environmental data (ph, ec, temp, humidity....). You cant improve or know what works if you don't have the data to correlate the outcome.

Dee

I like the sound of Jacks and 3 dry ingredients sounds just as simple as 3 bottled ingredients. I can't find anyone that ships it to me though. I will check my local store but its pretty tiny. If I have to go with liquid nutes do you have a recommendation?

I've already topped and cleaned as though I was going to start mainlining. I'm tempted to top once more and then let them go as you said. Or should I just leave them alone now...?

I do record everything daily. Ph, ppm, rh, air temp, water temp and water level. Its helped me already when I forget when I changed my res last or how much ph down to use or forget which clone belongs to which mum lol.

My problem is I'm so impatient I want to try everything right now, I wish I had a fast forward button on the tent so I could blast out a few test runs in a few days haha
Probably every growers dream...
 
DGP

DGP

1,214
263
I like the sound of Jacks and 3 dry ingredients sounds just as simple as 3 bottled ingredients. I can't find anyone that ships it to me though. I will check my local store but its pretty tiny. If I have to go with liquid nutes do you have a recommendation?

I've already topped and cleaned as though I was going to start mainlining. I'm tempted to top once more and then let them go as you said. Or should I just leave them alone now...?

I do record everything daily. Ph, ppm, rh, air temp, water temp and water level. Its helped me already when I forget when I changed my res last or how much ph down to use or forget which clone belongs to which mum lol.

My problem is I'm so impatient I want to try everything right now, I wish I had a fast forward button on the tent so I could blast out a few test runs in a few days haha
Probably every growers dream...

One correction to what I said earlier about the roots on your plants. I can see where you did have root rot but if you look at your more recent pictures you see lots of white new growth and the old central growth was quite brown and for sure look like rot but as I said lots of white coming out on the newer growth. Now, where the H2O2 really helps is taking out that old rotted material and keeping it from further contaminating the environment. What one could do is change the system water out, add some H2O2, wait a few days and go back to restarting your beneficial bacteria again once the system has been sterilized so-to-speak.

Anyway, are you able to get Mega Crop nutrients where you are? That would be my second choice for dry nutrients. If you can say, what part of the world are in in? Maybe Jack's is only available in N. America. I think us in the states often forget how good we have it as far as sourcing materials and supplies for a grow because almost anything out there is available to us. So many of the good nute companies have been taken over by evil empires such as Scott's, Monsanto and Bayer. I would recommend General Hydro but I don't trust them anymore either (Scott's). GH did well for me but I discontinued the use of it as soon as Scott's bought them. I am not a radical politically speaking but I don't approve of the behavior of these companies and especially the way they have treated the cannabis industry. Anyway, the nute question is a tough one nowadays unless you want to just close your eyes and not worry about the issues and the possible crap their putting in the materials.

Anyway, keep going and soon you will be down the road with many cycles of experience and improving each harvest. I am anxious every cycle to see the latest results, measure the output and start another flower run.....

PS, glad to hear your writing it all down, a very important practice. Without data there is no real way to make positive changes and compare results.

Dee
 
MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
One correction to what I said earlier about the roots on your plants. I can see where you did have root rot but if you look at your more recent pictures you see lots of white new growth and the old central growth was quite brown and for sure look like rot but as I said lots of white coming out on the newer growth. Now, where the H2O2 really helps is taking out that old rotted material and keeping it from further contaminating the environment. What one could do is change the system water out, add some H2O2, wait a few days and go back to restarting your beneficial bacteria again once the system has been sterilized so-to-speak.

Anyway, are you able to get Mega Crop nutrients where you are? That would be my second choice for dry nutrients. If you can say, what part of the world are in in? Maybe Jack's is only available in N. America. I think us in the states often forget how good we have it as far as sourcing materials and supplies for a grow because almost anything out there is available to us. So many of the good nute companies have been taken over by evil empires such as Scott's, Monsanto and Bayer. I would recommend General Hydro but I don't trust them anymore either (Scott's). GH did well for me but I discontinued the use of it as soon as Scott's bought them. I am not a radical politically speaking but I don't approve of the behavior of these companies and especially the way they have treated the cannabis industry. Anyway, the nute question is a tough one nowadays unless you want to just close your eyes and not worry about the issues and the possible crap their putting in the materials.

Anyway, keep going and soon you will be down the road with many cycles of experience and improving each harvest. I am anxious every cycle to see the latest results, measure the output and start another flower run.....

PS, glad to hear your writing it all down, a very important practice. Without data there is no real way to make positive changes and compare results.

Dee

I can get MegaCrop it seems. They ship internationally.

https://greenleafnutrients.com/shop/?v=d34609ed4520

Should I just get the base fert? How closely should I follow the feeding chart? I started at 1/4 strength for AN and moved up slowly from there.

I may do that rinse with h202 if I an find some food grade stuff locally. I'm still jot sure if I'm looking at rot or algae.
 
DGP

DGP

1,214
263
I can get MegaCrop it seems. They ship internationally.

https://greenleafnutrients.com/shop/?v=d34609ed4520

Should I just get the base fert? How closely should I follow the feeding chart? I started at 1/4 strength for AN and moved up slowly from there.

I may do that rinse with h202 if I an find some food grade stuff locally. I'm still jot sure if I'm looking at rot or algae.

All I know is several folks on a nutrient group were going back and forth about Mega vs. Jack's and they seemed quite happy with it. This thread is long but has a lot of information in it:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...ves-to-overpriced-hydroponic-nutrients.35395/

Dee
 
MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
All I know is several folks on a nutrient group were going back and forth about Mega vs. Jack's and they seemed quite happy with it. This thread is long but has a lot of information in it:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...ves-to-overpriced-hydroponic-nutrients.35395/

Dee

I'll browse through that thread over the next few days. My nute situation isn't dire just yet.

I'm uploading a couple of pics of my roots taken today.

When I read my ppm meter, which scale am I looking at? Is it relative to what chart I'm reading? People always post about their ppm being such and such but I don't know what scale they are using so I don't know if mine is similar or not.
20180527 164143
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MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
I read through that thread and ended up getting a 230g sample of mega crop for free. Just had to pay postage. It hasn't arrived yet but I still have .5 of a bottle of AN so all good for now.

I saw a few signs of deficiencies the day before res change this week. Nutes are up around 350ppm .5 scale. New growth looks better but I will be keeping an eye on them.

After the res change my ppm went up a few points each day and then started dropping again, could this be because they are drinking faster than feeding? I'll put up a few pics of the leaves from a few days ago and a shot of them all today.

Cheers

Peace
 
MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
Just remembered the photos were on a phone that I am jot using any more. I'll take some new ones in a minute. For now here is a nug shot of my outdoor stuff.

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MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
The girls just now.
20180601 173209

The little one front left has very dark fans but jew growth looks good.
20180601 173021

Big girl back left. Yellow brown spots. No new leaves have done this since I changed the res so hopefully that was the only issue.
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20180601 173003


Slightly burnt tips on back right perhaps or am I worrying about nothing?

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MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
Quick update cos I've been lazy.

Pre flowers are showing, I'm not very good at sexing yet but I think the biggest one is female. I will take some close ups soon and post them here. My clones haven't showed anything yet. They still look perky but not sure if they have rooted properly. I haven't watered them at all except for misting the leaves and the medium is still wet. More waiting in store.

The pictures I'm posting now are from a few days ago. I'm looking for input on training. I was originally going to fill the tent completely, then I started manifolding/mainlining. Now I'm thinking my lights don't have the penetration or the footprint to carry either of those plans all the way with much success. I used a free lux meter on my phone (inaccurate I know), and it looks like beyond 6 inches the plants are only getting a score of about 5000. Also I read that lux meters don't work for leds so I don't know for sure what they are getting.

@DGP sorry for dragging you back in over and over, just not getting many replies otherwise and I'd love to hear your thoughts. I know you said my lights would be fine and not to worry about manifolding yet so what would you recommend to make the most of of my space? And how long until I should switch to 12/12 roughly, based on the size of the plants? I will figure out how many days old they are when I am home tonight.
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DGP

DGP

1,214
263
I guess when it comes to the lighting, if you can afford to replace them with something effective that would be good. If we were near each other I would just give you an HPS or T5 HO to use.

Are you able to get Quantum boards where you live? For a tent that size Quantum QB's would work nice since they are suited to small areas like tents and they very much benefit from the reflective walls. Some 3500K panels would rock n that tent.

Over the last 3 weeks I have built 2 X 350 watt Quantum (QB120 X 6 panels) Veg lights and tonight I rebuilt my main flower light into a passive cooled 15 COB setup (750 Watts) for a 4X5 area. The 750 watt light produced 1.5 lbs in my last cycle and this cycle it looks like a lot more but I have 2 weeks to go before I'll know. Just love the COB and Quantum LED technology so dang easy to build.

As far as your overall grow process, I would not worry about dialing in your space efficiency etc. I would just have some simple goals like just getting the plants through the process and finish. Don't do anything fancy just get the plants to the finish line. Then evaluate what happened and plan your changes for the next cycle.

Deciding when to flip is tricky unless you know this strain. I would at least wait until they are say 18-24" tall. Don't screw around and over manage the plants just take good care of your environmental conditions and prune off bad leaves when needed but other than that leave em be and let them grow. For veg your lights are not too important so maybe plan to find a new light between now and about 4 weeks from now. If you can upgrade the lighting situation then do that before you flip them.

Dee
 
MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
So I saw my first true leaves on 11/4 (4/11 for Americans), 7 days after the seeds popped which, if my maths is ok, means 58 days since sprouting.

I can afford new lights, though I'll be buying something pre made, not building my own just yet. Are the Quantum Boards all kits? I want something that is plug n play. Also I'm going to take your original advice and stick with these lights for this cycle. Then I'll be able to see the difference for real when I do upgrade. I'll be picking your brain for sure when it's time haha. But you are probably right about setting smaller goals. How about veg for 3-4 more weeks, top once more, one more week then flip? Or should I just leave them alone...I can be impatient at times...

Can I get an opinion on these leaves? I originally thought cal or mag but now I'm thinking phosphorous because some stems are tinged pink/purple. I'm due for a res change on the 11th so I'm going to sit tight for now. I added a top off of nutes and fresh water which seemed to put the problem on hold, can't tell if its worked yet. My ppm on 0.5 scale for the last 8 days were as follows: 337, 334, 317, 310, 304, 296, 358 (top up), 359 today. Seems to have leveled out. Do I snip the sick leaves? Some are curling up.
15284497951501785718462746069161

15284498233073412577904279338737

Also a couple of small holes in leaves. Could this be something other than bugs?
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MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
Your plants look great DGP. What strains are you running and how far into flower?
I wish I didn't have such strict plant counts otherwise I would have a whole room or several tents running perpetual, mothers, pheno hunts and all the rest, such a fun and rewarding hobby. I'm over my limit right now but will only be flowering one or two girls.

Purple tinge.
15284500362061841884075174658782


No. 2 sexing
15284501100683511290964061739509


No.3 sexing
15284501920411616712659514440079


No. 5 sexing
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I don't know if these are old enough to tell sex yet. No. 2, No. 3 and No.5 all look female to me... I'm not very good at this yet, when I did my outdoor grow I thought the two little pointy bits that show on the nodes were pistils lol, then got 2/3 boys. No. 3 is doing something weird on that top node. Looks like its trying to sprout another branch. No. 4 hasn't shown anything yet.

Thanks for reading.

Peace. Happy growing.
 
DGP

DGP

1,214
263
So I saw my first true leaves on 11/4 (4/11 for Americans), 7 days after the seeds popped which, if my maths is ok, means 58 days since sprouting.

I can afford new lights, though I'll be buying something pre made, not building my own just yet. Are the Quantum Boards all kits? I want something that is plug n play. Also I'm going to take your original advice and stick with these lights for this cycle. Then I'll be able to see the difference for real when I do upgrade. I'll be picking your brain for sure when it's time haha. But you are probably right about setting smaller goals. How about veg for 3-4 more weeks, top once more, one more week then flip? Or should I just leave them alone...I can be impatient at times...

Can I get an opinion on these leaves? I originally thought cal or mag but now I'm thinking phosphorous because some stems are tinged pink/purple. I'm due for a res change on the 11th so I'm going to sit tight for now. I added a top off of nutes and fresh water which seemed to put the problem on hold, can't tell if its worked yet. My ppm on 0.5 scale for the last 8 days were as follows: 337, 334, 317, 310, 304, 296, 358 (top up), 359 today. Seems to have leveled out. Do I snip the sick leaves? Some are curling up.
View attachment 806393
View attachment 806394
Also a couple of small holes in leaves. Could this be something other than bugs?
View attachment 806395

Yeah, been looking at your leaves. I have not said anything because I was not sure what it was. However, my first question is what are the natural PPM levels of the water your using. If they were mine I might try a little CalMag but again it would be a guess.

Man, if your plants were born on 4-11 then they are really old now at almost 2.5 months? At this point at least they are sexually mature so it will be easier and quicker to sex them shortly. I would wait maybe 2-3 weeks more and then decide. They may need to be topped at some point between now and flip but you'll just have to watch them and see but you have already taken them down to a hand full of branches so maybe just go with the ones you have selected and train them to be a similar height as they grow and just manage the canopy once you get a net up.

The strain I am running is a my own back-cross from TGA CheeseQuake. They are in week 7 (8 week hybrid....so they say). I did the cross to create an F2 (I believe that is the correct designation) so I could see a very broad selection of phenos. I saw in the original sprouts from TGA one particular plant that was just vigorous, fast growing, the first to sprout and huge, very productive plant as well as bug resistant. I cloned her as she grew but then went into flower and all the clones failed. So, I did the cross so I could select through all the variants and find a similar monster. This is the first run of the two sorted phenos and they are a true dominant Indica (P2) and one that is very large that is a true hybrid (P1) (maybe 50/50 Sativa/Indica). The 2 P1's in my 4X5 grow space were so successful the took over the whole space and covered the P2 indica phenotypes. So, in spite of that screw up of losing the clones, I am very happy with the P1 and that's the phenotype I'll take from here, have two huge mothers established so this time I won't lose the special girl again. These girls are a nice 50/50 and they show characteristics of Granddaddy Purple and as the temps cool near end of flower they get some nice purple in the flowers.

Next run will be the P1 (which are outside this Summer) and indoors will be a run of Hollyweed or some of the experimental hybrids I have in the seed bank. I became too accustom to the CheeseQuake I have been running for almost 4 cycles now so I need to switch it up without losing my genetics I worked hard to get. However, If I run 3-4 strains on and off again I have to have room for all the moms. Ah, the challenges of keeping a perennial plant in indoor culture.......

Dee
 
MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
Yeah, been looking at your leaves. I have not said anything because I was not sure what it was. However, my first question is what are the natural PPM levels of the water your using. If they were mine I might try a little CalMag but again it would be a guess.

Man, if your plants were born on 4-11 then they are really old now at almost 2.5 months? At this point at least they are sexually mature so it will be easier and quicker to sex them shortly. I would wait maybe 2-3 weeks more and then decide. They may need to be topped at some point between now and flip but you'll just have to watch them and see but you have already taken them down to a hand full of branches so maybe just go with the ones you have selected and train them to be a similar height as they grow and just manage the canopy once you get a net up.

The strain I am running is a my own back-cross from TGA CheeseQuake. They are in week 7 (8 week hybrid....so they say). I did the cross to create an F2 (I believe that is the correct designation) so I could see a very broad selection of phenos. I saw in the original sprouts from TGA one particular plant that was just vigorous, fast growing, the first to sprout and huge, very productive plant as well as bug resistant. I cloned her as she grew but then went into flower and all the clones failed. So, I did the cross so I could select through all the variants and find a similar monster. This is the first run of the two sorted phenos and they are a true dominant Indica (P2) and one that is very large that is a true hybrid (P1) (maybe 50/50 Sativa/Indica). The 2 P1's in my 4X5 grow space were so successful the took over the whole space and covered the P2 indica phenotypes. So, in spite of that screw up of losing the clones, I am very happy with the P1 and that's the phenotype I'll take from here, have two huge mothers established so this time I won't lose the special girl again. These girls are a nice 50/50 and they show characteristics of Granddaddy Purple and as the temps cool near end of flower they get some nice purple in the flowers.

Next run will be the P1 (which are outside this Summer) and indoors will be a run of Hollyweed or some of the experimental hybrids I have in the seed bank. I became too accustom to the CheeseQuake I have been running for almost 4 cycles now so I need to switch it up without losing my genetics I worked hard to get. However, If I run 3-4 strains on and off again I have to have room for all the moms. Ah, the challenges of keeping a perennial plant in indoor culture.......

Dee

I measure my water out of the tap at 24ppm. I left some in a tub last night in anticipation of changing out the res, I'll measure it again tonight to see if its dropped at all. I think that's pretty low, so could be cal/mag.

Do you think they are really small for that old? Could it be the ph fluctuations slowing them down? Of course genetics has a lot to do with it. I have some sour headband that I got here that will be more predictable, I'll probably try those out next.
 
DGP

DGP

1,214
263
I measure my water out of the tap at 24ppm. I left some in a tub last night in anticipation of changing out the res, I'll measure it again tonight to see if its dropped at all. I think that's pretty low, so could be cal/mag.

Do you think they are really small for that old? Could it be the ph fluctuations slowing them down? Of course genetics has a lot to do with it. I have some sour headband that I got here that will be more predictable, I'll probably try those out next.

Yeah, I am not sure why they would be that small. I veg my plants for 4 weeks max and they are 24" tall and probably 30" or more in diameter. Not sure why yours are growing so slowly. Maybe you just have some poor genetics. Cant remember if you said which strain they are.

Dee
 
MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
Yeah, I am not sure why they would be that small. I veg my plants for 4 weeks max and they are 24" tall and probably 30" or more in diameter. Not sure why yours are growing so slowly. Maybe you just have some poor genetics. Cant remember if you said which strain they are.

Dee

I didn't expect them to grow as fast as what I see you guys doing as I am a beginner, but it does feel slow. The seeds are just bagseeds from an unknown source. I've been collecting seeds for years so there are probably lots of different kinds in the tub, could be anything. I never thought to keep them separate until I decided to start growing. Doh. I have that sour headband and my friend has a few other branded strains to give me so I'll try something with a name next round.


Tap water read 24ppm last night. 25 today. Does that mean my tap water is unchlorinated?

On Monday I will buy some cal/mag and add it to the fresh res. I'll wait 2-3 more weeks then either flip them then or top, wait a week and flip.

Did you see anything conclusive in the photos of the plants I'm trying to sex? If I have two females I'll rip out the others right away.


Thanks

Peace
 
DGP

DGP

1,214
263
I didn't expect them to grow as fast as what I see you guys doing as I am a beginner, but it does feel slow. The seeds are just bagseeds from an unknown source. I've been collecting seeds for years so there are probably lots of different kinds in the tub, could be anything. I never thought to keep them separate until I decided to start growing. Doh. I have that sour headband and my friend has a few other branded strains to give me so I'll try something with a name next round.


Tap water read 24ppm last night. 25 today. Does that mean my tap water is unchlorinated?

On Monday I will buy some cal/mag and add it to the fresh res. I'll wait 2-3 more weeks then either flip them then or top, wait a week and flip.

Did you see anything conclusive in the photos of the plants I'm trying to sex? If I have two females I'll rip out the others right away.


Thanks

Peace

Your tap water is very pure but if it is municipal water then it has some chlorine. Chlorine won't hurt your hydro operation unless your using live bacteria/beneficials. If your t5ap water is that pure then CalMag will likely be important.

I think it is too early to sex the plants but there could be signs at any time because they are probably maturing now after over 2 months. Don't worry it takes time to figure stuff out. I am no master gardener but have been practicing the art for about 3-1/2 years. I went to visit a master grower/breeder today and I have a lot to learn myself.

Dee
 
MelonFarmer

MelonFarmer

68
8
Your tap water is very pure but if it is municipal water then it has some chlorine. Chlorine won't hurt your hydro operation unless your using live bacteria/beneficials. If your t5ap water is that pure then CalMag will likely be important.

I think it is too early to sex the plants but there could be signs at any time because they are probably maturing now after over 2 months. Don't worry it takes time to figure stuff out. I am no master gardener but have been practicing the art for about 3-1/2 years. I went to visit a master grower/breeder today and I have a lot to learn myself.

Dee

I thought the chlorine evaporating over night would have lowered the ppm.
I am using beneficials but I always leave my water out over night before a change out to bring it up to temp and evaporate chlorine off.

I'll try be patient and let them grow.
Thanks again dgp.

Peace
 
DGP

DGP

1,214
263
I don't think chlorine adds to the ppm.....have never seen the municipal levels of chlorine affect my readings that I can tell. Your water is quite pure, we have the same issue here 10-25ppm right out of the faucet. This means there is almost no cal or mag salts in the water to start with. Most water sources whether well or municipal generally have lots of Cal and Mag in them and often read 200 or more from the start. Having clean water is a blessing since you don't need to spend money and energy on RO filtration but then you have to watch for cal and mag deficiencies. However, the nutrient makers know that typical water sources have plenty of cal and mag so thats why we have to add some when the water is that low in dissolved solids.

Dee
 

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